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need input about skills on spearzon

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by damaris, Jun 24, 2005.

  1. damaris

    damaris IncGamers Member

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    need input about skills on spearzon

    ok, as the title say. im goin to make a spearzon. it is obvious that u can not use LF skill on a spearzon right? so my mind quickly directed into LS for mass/crowd-killin'. but then i heard that LS is not as powerful as LF. any comments? i know, throwing javelin zon is far more superior than a spearzon, but that kind of build is toooo common. i need somethin..... EXOTIC!! yay..! :surprise:

    so as for the skills, im planning like this:
    jav:
    20 LS
    20 charged strike
    20 jab

    bow: (yes a bow as a second weapon to handle those nasty OK with IM)
    1 strafe
    1 guided arrow
    1 magic arrow
    1 multi

    passive:
    1 Critical strike
    1 Penetrate
    5 Pierce (does it work on LS?)
    1 D/A/E
    1 Slow missles
    1 Decoy
    and put all extra points into inner site

    thoughts? :)

    (posted the same thread over amazon forum, but i dont have the patience to wait for the reply on that, hope moderators dont mind about this)
     
  2. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    The first thing that leaps to mind is, if you can use a bow on your spearzon, why can't you use a javelin for LF? Well, I can see how you might not want to use LF at all because it just pwns everything so bad but still...

    Anyway:

    - Pierce only works for bows and thrown weapons.
    - Personally I'd get a decent level of valkyrie to tank for me
    - Wouldn't max jab since it doesn't really do that much damage and you only need it for LIs
     
  3. PinkeyandtheBrain

    PinkeyandtheBrain Banned

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    Working backwards here
    Pierce is not needed for LS casue its basically chain lit but still put some in for when you use strafe
    more in dodge evade and avoid great passives a must a valk at leas lvl 5(as high as possible with other skills)
    I would max strafe but use no others in the bow tree
    since you would be using strafe for the big nastys that being up close to 'll kill ya dont invest into jab to much

    I would be thinking something like this
    20 LS
    20 CS
    1-5 jab(whatever you really feel like)
    1-5 crit(whatever you really feel like)
    1-5 penatrate(whatever you really feel like)
    5+ pierce(for the bow really)
    As many in valk as possible
    20 strafe
    that should give some legroom to change how you like and such and such
    dow what you think is best for you char to suit your playing style
    good luck
     
  4. damaris

    damaris IncGamers Member

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    as mentioned, javazon is too common, i like the different way, besides when u use a javelin as a 2nd weapon, u probably will need a shield. and THE shield probably or most likely is stormshield, for the best. and duh.... dont have one :p

    ok, no pierce then. but wait... might be useful while using the bow, maybe 1-5 points will do.
    hm... good idea. but i think she will be fine as her merc will do the tank-job for her. will consider this
    thats the point. i was thinking, when it comes to crowd-killin, use LS, when it comes to single monster PI, use CS, when it comes to single monster LI, use jab, but then when it comes to single monster PI AND LI, still dont know how to handle this kind of monster :p thoughts?

    @nightfish:
    bytheway, my second char fissymancer was build exactly based on your guide. hes lvl 90 right now, and i made him a patriach less than a week. good guide i must say, among the best! thx n' keep it up! :thumbsup:
     
  5. damaris

    damaris IncGamers Member

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    okay, the skill distribution really make sense. so what will u do when u spawn LI monsters? jab probably will do the job but how bout when it comes with both LI and PI monsters?

    whats wrong with inner site?
    one person on amazon forum wrote this
    'inner sight is not worth it. if you get an a1 merc, it's also free'

    while the other person on amazon forum wrote this:
    'edits; INNER SITE! Never forget this skill! Dont max critical and dodge, they both have bad returns. Instead its very very cool to max i.s., as in pvm or pvp it will destroy everyones deffense. More so in pvp than pvm, being that it reduces +deff instead of %deff like most things in this game do. This alone can cripple barbs/pallys if you choose to take this amazon into a duel!

    If you can get 10x passive skillers. It will help you so you can keep critical at base level 1 {horrible gains past lvl 10 anyways}, and if you get inner site up to 32 {assuming you max it, 10 skillers, anni, and highlords}, thats taking away 1815 deffense. Thats like removing a barbarians armor & shield, or even taking baal's deffense to zero!'


    boy, im confused.

    one more question, what bow do u suggest? no dont suggest a windforce, coz i dont have one. maybe witchwild would be good huh?
     
  6. PinkeyandtheBrain

    PinkeyandtheBrain Banned

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    well inner sight just sucks imo
    about the lit/pi monsters mebbie freezing arrow jab wouldent help against that either
    running from those nastys is always a good option to
    wws is a great bow use it if you got it.
     
  7. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    Unless you've got a windforce, don't max strafe. Even if you do the 5% damage isn't worth it. Let's face it, bows do pitiful physical damage and 5% of not much is basically nothing. As for bow suggestions... Lycander's Aim is alright and not too hard to get. Witchwild is another option. Truth to tell, I generally find bow skills somewhat underpowered. Yeah, you're safe but killing is pretty slow. And comparing bow skills to LF makes me cry... :teeth:

    Personally I don't think the merc alone provides enough tanking for a spearzon. For a javazon, yes. She's got her shield and is ranged. But the spearzon herself can't take too much of a beating and the valk is pretty much the best single minion around.

    As for LI/PI enemies... Well, if you're patient there's always open wounds. That kills everything. Just make sure you have a cold or fire charm so you can trigger it. Prevent monster heal would also help. Don't think I'd try to get other skills for this rare combination.

    Glad you liked the guide, damaris ;)

    edit: About inner sight... I think the guy you quoted got it wrong. Especially for PVP. To be quite honest I don't really know how much 2k defence is in PVM but I prefer to max penetrate and get good AR because that essentially does the same thing but doesn't require me to cast a spell every time before attacking which saves time. (and is more lazy)
     
  8. frosty

    frosty IncGamers Member

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    A reference for you on pure spearzons....

    1 in all prerequsites.
    20 Charged Strike
    20 Lightning Strike (yes, LS not LF)
    11 Power Strike
    2 Jab
    13 Valk
    8/3/8 for Dodge/Avoid/Evade
    5 in Critcal Strike

    A valk is critical. When the merc goes down, you will want the monsters to go for something other than you.

    Like what nightfish said, use open wounds and elemental damage. Or throw a Reaper's on your merc.

    My spearzon used a upped Lycander's.
     
  9. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    Inner Sight is a great (and often underrated) skill. The problem is, you only have so many points to work with. Here is another idea to throw out:

    (Does anyone know where this is going? :D )

    You can get both Inner Sight and a good source of fire damage with no skill points at all! This might be a build where an Act 1 fire rogue could be put to good use.* You would need to invest heavily in Valk (and possibly Decoy) for a tank, but it's another option to consider.

    *Disclaimer: The author of this post likes Fire Rogues. A lot. She uses an Act 1 Fire Rogue on her MF Orb/FB sorc, so there may be some slight bias. :D
     
  10. frosty

    frosty IncGamers Member

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    Actually an act 1 merc is viable, provided that she can provide some crowd control capability like hit blinds target, slow or delirium.
     
  11. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    Imo she does that no better than an act 2 merc and the 200% ED might gives you is actually quite a lot if you're using a half-decent spear. Yes, using act 2 mercs all the time might be boring but they're just plain better than anything else. Not to mention that it's easiest to get a decent weapon for them.
     
  12. Cheetor

    Cheetor IncGamers Member

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    Lance

    I say go with Jab.
    Combine it with the best lance you can find, and use it. Because jab has the same atack speed with any weapon you use, then the lance is the one to use. with jab it hits fast and does plenty o damage.
    If you have 200 strenght, the damage wil be 300% damage of the lance.
    Also use an act II might merc, wich will give you another +240% damage.
    300% + 240% = 540%*base damage.
    With a strong lance it easily goes to 1500 max phisical damage.
    Combine that with level 10 critical strike (50% chance)... I'm confused?????
    Realy it goes to a pretty high damage, all that at the atack speed of jab, around 12frames.
    Since you will have no shield, go for a maxed valk, you are going to need her.
    Also use an four or five socketed bow with perfect emralds,(700 poison damage over five sconds) for a nice damage against PI (not that much but it works).
    Also u can use an five socket pike( or whatever )with five rubys for fire damage against PI. (again not much but it works)
     
  13. Randall

    Randall IncGamers Member

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    Innersight, the PvM aspect:

    lvl 30 inner sight does -1615 defense

    Hell Baal has 2847
    Hell Diablo: 2534
    Hell Memp: 2697
    Hell Pindle: 1192

    So it's a rough -50% up to -100% to target defense. (Can defense be negative?)

    Specially in parties it is (EDIT: could be) a nice skill

    Randall
     
  14. Abarrach

    Abarrach IncGamers Member

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    Actually jab changed and is now weapon speed dependant so a lance will make for a slow jab speed without additional sources of ias. Can't remember which patch changed it - somewhere between 1.06 and 1.10 is all I'm certain about!
     
  15. Liliel

    Liliel IncGamers Member

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    First of all, I'd like to commend you for having the guts to play with a spear instead of being yet another LF javazon. Amazons don't need shields anyway.

    I would recommend that you don't bother with max Jab. Just get a bit of CB and Jab will do fine with +skills. I would suggest you instead put those points into Valkyrie. Spearazons are fragile things. I cannot even begin to count how many times she's saved my rear. And remember she's expendable. She won't cost you tons of gold when she dies. You don't care when she's surrounded by extra fast frenzytaurs. You don't care if she gets left behind or stuck in a doorway. Recastable minions rock. You must also learn to effectively use Decoy for crowd control.

    One thing I'd like to point out. You AR is going to be a problem. It's going to suck. Badly. Unless you use Arioc's Needle (ITD), this will become annoying as you need to hit in order to leech back the hefty mana cost of Charged Strike. For this reason I recommend a Rogue or Blessed Aim merc. Personally I went with a Rogue so I could max Penetrate and forget about Inner Sight. Valkyrie is so awesome that you don't even need a meat shield merc, though I suppose it would make the game easier (but then if you wanted an easy game, why play spearazon?).

    Forget Pierce, and don't worry about bow skills. If you want a bow as a secondary weapon, you should use WWS or Widowmaker or something. For the occasional LI/PI, I recommend using the WWS or keeping an Atma's Scarab amulet in your stash for the ctc Amp.

    If it helps you at all, here is the skill plan of my own Spearazon:
    20 Charged Strike
    20 Lightning Strike
    20 Penetrate (you can use Inner Sight if you don't have a Rogue)
    20 Valkyrie
    remainder in Power Strike

    Instead of points in PS you could put points into Decoy or Inner Sight/Penetrate (whichever isn't already maxed). Two lit skills maxed easily provides enough damage for Hell p1.

    Current equipment:
    Arioc's Needle
    Rockstopper
    Skin of the Vipermagi
    Thundergod's Vigor
    Rare +1skill mana leech 20res all amulet
    Rare life leech +20str +lit res ring
    Ravenfrost
    Rare 20ias +2spear skill gloves
    Gorerider
     
  16. YadaNono

    YadaNono IncGamers Member

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    Two tanks is always better than one. Also when you merc dies (and he/she will) a trip to town is necessary while with your valk, you can just re-cast her
     
  17. foosnark

    foosnark IncGamers Member

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    I started a CS spearazon yesterday -- she had a bad red potion habit at first, which became a bad blue potion habit at level 18 :) I more or less gave up on her after Radament simply because I like my Werewolf so much more.

    Back in the day I played a Jab Spearazon which was lots of fun :)
     
  18. Ulanji

    Ulanji IncGamers Member

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    My twist on it

    Not being one to read guides (up until a few months ago), I kinda free-wheeled it. I liked the idea of a superbad vixen who could tank like a true warrior. So, I went with Fend. My faith was rewarded one day around level 50 when I found Lycander's Flank. My jaw must have hit the floor about 27 times within the subsequent hour, I was so happy. "Katja" went straight over to Larzuk, and could now inflict some major shaeled pain!

    However, she still had what amounted to a pencil, a dried noodle, and a few pick-up-stix when it came to javelins. My vixen is throwing LIGHTNING, for Freya's sake! I mean, what sort of valkyrie can look her enemies in the eye, proclaim "Yea, do I pity thee as ye melt 'neath the fury of my lightning-infused dried worm specimen," and NOT get laughed out of Valhalla? But then...

    "Balrog Spear" in gold letters. "Hmm", I think, this could be good.
    http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/elite/ujavelins.shtml
    Holy. Freaking. Crap.

    So, that was Katja's missing piece. Far later, she unearthed a Stoneraven, which is actually several steps up from Lycander's due to DEF + resists. Anyway, Katja is currently level 84, and her core skills are:

    20 Lightning Fury
    20 Fend
    20 Valkyrie (who be thy mamma?)
    30-ish into supporting passive skills and pre-req's (nothing on bow/crossbow tree)

    She's a blast to play. She doesn't tank as well as my Concentrating barbarian "Ragnar," but don't tell her that!
     
  19. sunbearie

    sunbearie IncGamers Member

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    I love the spearazon, my first character and now my highest at lvl 93 :)

    To give a different viewpoint, if you want to solo hell at higher levels, go for damage instead.

    LS 20
    CS 20
    lightning bolt 20/power strike rest or vice versa
    valk 17(or less if possible)
    d/a/e, IS, SM, pentetrate 1

    Advantages to maxing
    LB: use it when you're afraid of iron maiden.
    power strike: it gives an ar boost and acts as a synergy. Use this or jab to leech mana.

    Since CS/LS is independent on ar, your only problems are actually just mana and survival.
    I agree with the lack of ar being a problem for mana leech but potions, jabbing/PS lightning immunes(they're always around) and some mana per kill if possible should minimise the need for penetrate.
    You don't need high def to survive. You have 1-3 tanks.

    Remember you hit every monster in the screen whether you're at a corner, or right in the middle. Don't stand in the mob :)

    Equipment, I'm using all rares except for a rhyme shield for CBF on switch if necessary.
     
  20. Vajar

    Vajar IncGamers Member

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    A few things about Spearzons:

    1) Inner Sight does work really well, a single point in penetrate suffices. Arioc's Needle with ITD may work wonders, but you can't really use it to level 81, so it's not always a good idea to rely on it (unless you're not planning on stopping once you beat hell).

    2) Fend doesn't work well with Dodge/Evade/Avoid. While you are fending, if you get attacked and perform a d/e/a (no animation shown), you will miss ALL subsequent attacks - this isn't much of a big deal in the lower difficulties, but in hell, when monsters really start hurting, you'll need to hit as many monsters as possible in order to leech enough life to stay alive (remember zeal lock in classic?). As such, it's recommended that you skip these skills and instead of investing in Valkyrie, you invest in Decoy. Grab a defiance merc and you should be doin pretty well at that point. A might mercenary might work pretty well, also.

    3) With Fend, Life Tap and Delerium work wonders. Throw on a Delerium helm, wear Dracul's Grasp, and the curses will switch back and forth, keeping the heat off your back and your life bulb full.

    Thats about the best advice I can give you. Of course if you don't go with Fend, I don't recommend skipping Valkyrie and D/E/A.

    My experience is mostly with this build (late game of course):

    Defiance

    130 Str (+10 Gloom, +15 Draculs)
    100 Dex (+20 Frost)

    Arioc's Needle - IAS

    Delerium
    Highlord's Wrath
    High Def Gloom
    Draculs Grasp
    Rare Ring
    Raven Frost
    String of Ears
    Rare Boots

    20 Fend
    20 LS
    20 CS
    12 Decoy
    10 PS
    10 Inner Sight

    I plan on trying out a might merc sometime.
     

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