need help with kicksin

[Galasieni]

need help with kicksin

Alright here's the thing. My kicksin has just entered hell at level 70 and she just can't take it or dish it out even right out of town and I'm not sure why. Here's her stats and what she's wearing

Str 117 (177)
Dex 44 (86)
Stam 249 (259)
Energy 25 (35)

Skills
max DT
Shadow Master
Fade
leveling venom (8 currently)

Equipment
crushflange
tiamat's rebuke
shaftstop
tal rasha's helm
mavina's gloves
ik belt
gore riders
mahim-oak curio ammy
manald heal ring
raven frost

My resistance is hell is 75F, 19C, 50L, 19P (with fade active which I usually have on)

Is it my equipment, skill and stat placement, or do I just need to level up some more before I can stand a chance?

 

[stephan]

Are those gore riders upped? If not, any elite pair of boots will beat them in terms of damage. Mods to look for on rares are FRW, res and FHR (and IMO in that order). Anything else is a bonus.

You lack kicking speed. While there are better kicking weapons than Crushflange it is not half that bad if you get some IAS. Now, it's a little unfortunate that you need 48 IAS to not have to use BoS to get 3 frame kicks (IK gloves + a shael in the Crushflange would give 45). There are other ways to get some extra IAS depending on what kind of wealth you have.

Get some points in DS. Unless you are avoiding it for style reason, DS will accelerate your killing speed considerably.

Your build is certainly still salvageable if you can get your follow up kicks to 3 frame and you get DS (since you are only level 70 and at the start of hell there are more than enough points left for it).

Preferably your lightning res should be maxed too, but an Ort in a helm or armor would already take care of that.

 

[Evah]

I'd strongly advise you to max Dragon Flight, it's an awesome skill for (mainly) 2 reasons:
- yes, it can be used to teleport (some victims required though^_^)
- DF allows you to kill a particular monster (like shaman or smth like that) in a crowd.

Get STRENGTH runeword (Amn+Tir) in a fast claw instead of ur 'flange. 7% leach DOES help to survive hard battles, and +20 str significantly improve your kick damage.

Also (if you decide to use a STRENGTH claw instead a Crushflange) i'd use a +skill claw with res jools instead of Tiamat. Me thinks that ability to block about 50% attacks outstrikes elemental damage on your shield.

Gloves. Try to craft a good roll of Blood Gloves, +life, CB and LL help a lot. Also craft a Blood ring and use it instead of Manny (the only useful mod is Mana Leach, but you already have it on your helmet).

And, yes. as Steph has stated above, a plain pair of myrmidons beats un-upped gores.

 

[Galasieni]

I was avoiding putting points into skills that help when using claws because this sin was suppose to eventually be able to take on the ubers (though I'm not seeing how this is going to be possible at the moment). Let's see things that I'm seeing

First the manald I hadn't really thought about that until now because I *just* recently put the tal's helm on so I suppose I'll go try to find a ring to replace it...ias does spawn on rings right?

Maxing Dragon flight seems a waste to me if all I'd be using it for would be for an opening strike against an enemy behind other enemies...wouldn't it be better to just get 1 point in it if I'm using it for that reason?

I've been using the tiamat's for the resist (+30 to all) mainly because I couldn't afford anything better at the time. I may have to reevaluate the shield choice now that I'm better of for myself.

Would there be a better choice than crushflange that offers decent crushing blow? The mace itself gives 33% and gives plus 15 to str which almost equals strength runeword. I figured that the 10% LL from the tal's helm would be enough for me to survive. As for the gloves I'll have to look into getting a pair with ias to supplement my speed for my kicks

I have enough items to trade for a pul but as of yet I have been unable to attain one so I'm stuck with my poor old unupped gores at the moment but I'm trying my best to find a pul to help me out. As for regular myrmidon boots, I don't have the strength to equip them.

Anyway all this is well and good for increasing the damage I put out but the fact still stands that I just crumple under direct attack by multiple enemies. Is this normal for an assassin in hell? (I usually play sorcs so I don't often get hit) I have just over 1k life and 50% damage reduction from shaftstop and fade. What can I do to increase my survivability?

 

[Thrasher]

You need some crowd control. DS helps once the kills start happening. Before that, you need some help to keep the swarms at bay. One point in CoS and MB help a lot for that!

 

[Evah]

IAS does not spawn on rings. Yet you can craft a pair of gloves that combine Crushing Blow, extra life and life leech AND IAS. as for 'Flange vs STR in, say, Greater Talons:
1). Mase has base aspd 0. Greater Talons have -30.
2). +15 str from CF vs +20 from STR.
3). 33% CB vs 25% CB. not a big difference (especially if you have blood gloves that ALWAYS spawn with CB)
4). 50% Fire res vs +10 vita and 7% LL (btw since you are melee do not ever say or think 'i have enough LL so i don't need more' if you don't want to be eaten alive by a hell Fallen).

another point. since you use a summoned shadow, you already have 1 pt in Weapon Block. this gives us 26% block. +2 skills from an off-hand claw - and you have 36% CTB that DOES block most magic attacks and DOES NOT get cut to 1/3 when you run. Also you can choose a Jade Talon as the second claw. Put a Hel in it - and voila, it has ~80 required dex (don't forget that this claw has +Shadow and MA skills and 40-50% all res!!!). usual magic +2 sinskills/+3 shadow/+3 MA claw with 2 sockets (thanx, larzy!) filled with 'res 2 all' jools works almost the same!

then, you didn't say anything about your merc (or was i inattentive??). HF aura should help a lot. also a Defiance merc works fine.
then, 1 mere point in Cloack of Shadows should prevent monsters from rushing at you in a crowd; it also helps against any ranged attackers (since they don't see you, they don't shoot you, right?); also monsters don't use their skills while CoS'ed (i.e a Venom Lord won't try to fry you with an Inferno, he'll use normal attack instead). Also 1 point into Mind Blast provides you a great source of crowd control.

 

[stephan]

And, yes. as Steph has stated above, a plain pair of myrmidons beats un-upped gores.

I didn't really mean myrmidons, their strength req is too high. The choice would be between boneweaves and mirrored boots.

 

[Galasieni]

If I go the dual claw route would I be better off remaking my assassin so I can get up to 50% chance to block through claw block? And as for death sentry...how many points are needed in it? Is it good with just 1 point? Should I max it?

 

[PrkChopXpress]

another point. since you use a summoned shadow, you already have 1 pt in Weapon Block. this gives us 26% block. +2 skills from an off-hand claw - and you have 36% CTB that DOES block most magic attacks and DOES NOT get cut to 1/3 when you run.

You're absolutely right. Weapon Block doesn't get cut to 1/3 when you run, it get's cut to ZERO when you run or walk.

usual magic +2 sinskills/+3 shadow/+3 MA claw with 2 sockets (thanx, larzy!) filled with 'res 2 all' jools works almost the same!

That claw doesn't exist. You can have a magic claw with +2 sin skills and +3/3/2 to three specific skills, but I don't think it's possible to get +2 sin skills and +3 to two skill tabs.

 

[PrkChopXpress]

And as for death sentry...how many points are needed in it? Is it good with just 1 point? Should I max it?

If you want to max it, that'd be a reasonable decision but it's not completely necessary. Just 1 pt would be a big help, and I'd probably suggest putting a handful of points into it alone with a couple more into Fire Blast (to get your DS up to 6 shots). The extra points in DS aren't really for the added lightning damage, the real reason to put a few more point in it is to increase the range of the CE.

 

[Thrasher]

you can get a +2 assassin skill / +2 specific skill claw, though. Just found a +2 assassin skill / +3 lightning sentry claw and loving it!

I wonder what's the range of stuff you can find? like a claw with +2 assassin skill and +3 specific skill, or just two +3 specific skills or that and +2 assassin skills or ...

 

[Galasieni]

Well I just completed the den of evil without much trouble using a combination of mind blast and cloak of shadows (though corpsefire did pack quite the punch). I guess I had just gotten use to plowing through nm and norm just kicking...now I have to use strategy (heaven forbid!). Anyway now that I have my extra skill point I'm wondering if I should stop putting points in venom and invest towards death sentry...I'll probably use my points until 80 doing that if I decide to. Should I just put all my points into death sentry or is the extra shot from fireblast really worth it?

 

[PrkChopXpress]

you can get a +2 assassin skill / +2 specific skill claw, though. Just found a +2 assassin skill / +3 lightning sentry claw and loving it!

I wonder what's the range of stuff you can find? like a claw with +2 assassin skill and +3 specific skill, or just two +3 specific skills or that and +2 assassin skills or ...

It's actually possible to get a magic +2 sin skills with staffmods of +3 to two specific skills and +2 to another specific skill (it may be +3 to three skills, but I don't believe so). The catch is that all the staffmods must be within four adjacent skill tiers. For instance, you could get +2sin/+3DS/+3Venom/+2WB. You could not get +2sin/+3DS/+3Venom/+2BoS.

It's also possible to use a katar with +3/+3/+2 staffmods (as long as it doesn't have any magic mods, including the +2 sin skill mod) in rune words.

 

[Evah]

2PrkChopXpress

"That claw doesn't exist. You can have a magic claw with +2 sin skills and +3/3/2 to three specific skills, but I don't think it's possible to get +2 sin skills and +3 to two skill tabs." <--- of course it does not exist!! the "/" symbol stands for "or", not for "and"!!!:shocked:

"You're absolutely right. Weapon Block doesn't get cut to 1/3 when you run, it get's cut to ZERO when you run or walk." <---- i don't know where you found this.. errr... 'information', but it is wrong. (http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=545&page=1#3. Advantages). try to spend just several minutes to search on forums 'n' FAQs. It is DEF thtat gets nullified when running. Shield block is decreased to 1/3, Katar block is not cut at all! btw when you wallk and not run both def and shield block is not decreased.

2Galasieni
Speaking of remaking your character. You can still go with your skill setup even with two katars. but if you decide to create a new kicksin, don't put more than 1 point into summoned shadow, believe me, in Hell, the difference between a level 20 shadow and lvl 1 shadow +prebuff is quite insignificant.

 

[PrkChopXpress]

Generally a backslash is just used as a separator for mods. So if you say +2sin/+3LS/+3MB that usually means that all three mods are on the same katar.

And before you start talking down to someone, you may want to know what the hell you're talking about. That link you gave is outdated.

This is from the FAQ sticky:

Q: Does Weapon Block work when running?

A: WB does not work at all when moving(which means both running and walking). It works as per normal when standing still, and strangely, also works normally when the Assassin is Whirlwinding.

And just in case that's not enough for you, this is from the Arreat Summit:

Passive Effect: After developing this skill, an Assassin wielding two Claw-class weapons can use her blades to deflect incoming attacks, thus giving herself a defensive edge without using a shield. (Requires two equipped Claw-class weapons.)

• Weapon Block allows Assassins to use two Katar (or Claw Weapons) while still having Blocking. Assassins that use two Katars will want to invest heavily in this skill. Even a 1% Increase in Blocking will provide a great amount of protection.
• Weapon Block does not benefit from Dexterity or increased chance of blocking.
• You will only block while standing still or attacking. Weapon Block does not work while walking or running.
• Note: Whirlwind is an attack and weapon block will still function during the attack.

 

[Master Zap]

one cheap and really effective kicker wep that I use and reccomend is Lawbringer made in a pb -30 or a long sword -10 , the decrep ctc slows everything down and really helps survival, it also breaks phy immunes, and with the sanctuary aura you pwn the undead. It also works great to keep those pesky dolls off and away from you. If not used as a primary wep, I'd highly suggest it as a switch. Amn Lem Ko are fairly easy to find and trade for. 0.02 from a ladder hc Kicker


If you plan to use treachory as a primary armor, Avoid points in venom, I made the mistake of maxing venom and with treachory, its constantly being over-ridden by level 15 ctc.

 

[stephan]

Lawbringer kills Death Sentry and this is not a good thing. You don't need decrep because you have CoS. At best it's a minorly useful switch weapon. Kickers have enough skill points left to deal with physical immunes.

Lower level venom does not override higher level venom.

 

[Master Zap]

Thanks for the correction stephen on the venom thing, I disagree on your stance on lawbringer, I choose not to use DS on my sin with the exception of chaos sanctuary or spots with IM present, so this isnt a problem.

The decrep increases damage and bosses are effected by it I dont know how I lived without it on my prior kickers.

 

[Thrasher]

It's actually possible to get a magic +2 sin skills with staffmods of +3 to two specific skills and +2 to another specific skill (it may be +3 to three skills, but I don't believe so). The catch is that all the staffmods must be within four adjacent skill tiers. For instance, you could get +2sin/+3DS/+3Venom/+2WB. You could not get +2sin/+3DS/+3Venom/+2BoS.

It's also possible to use a katar with +3/+3/+2 staffmods (as long as it doesn't have any magic mods, including the +2 sin skill mod) in rune words.

Sorry to hijack... This is great info! Thanks! I don't get this though - "The catch is that all the staffmods must be within four adjacent skill tiers." Your example was on different tabs. Not sure how to relate tiers on different tabs. Is it the required level (no)? Or number of prerequisite skills back to the root of the skill tree (yes?)?

BTW I was wondering about people talking about rune'ing claws with staff mods. So +skills don't count as magic for the purposes of runewords? What other affixes don't prevent runewords from working?

Thanks!

 

[stephan]

The decrep increases damage and bosses are effected by it I dont know how I lived without it on my prior kickers.

I don't know how you live without DS. :wink3: