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need help w/ BF assy in Hell

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by Frankeinstein, Feb 11, 2004.

  1. Frankeinstein

    Frankeinstein IncGamers Member

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    need help w/ BF assy in Hell

    OK, I know its gonna be a stupid question but I am getting my butt kicked in Act1 HELL.
    Now before you all start to say get this, wear that, MF for this...

    Lets back it up to reality for a bit. I don't get to play 20 hrs a day, I will not go to EBAY... & buy items, & I have limited items for trade. Most items worth trading I am wearing ATM (on char). Soooo, what should I do?

    Go back to NM & just walk thru acts3-5? (super easy for her right now)
    Stay in Act1 hell & tough it out till she gets more experince?
    remove some of the skill/defence items & wear more MF in NM?
    Start over w/ a new char?


    BTW, she's a lvl74 Blade Fury Sin
    venom max
    SM max
    DS near max
    Fade about 8 pts
    rest of points as needed in other areas

    I have trangs armor on merc, helps to keep him from dying so much (holy freeze merc) or should I wear that instead?

    I wear Hwains armor & belt (+to def & life)
    goblin toe
    peasants crown
    ll ring w/resists
    mf ring w/ resist
    llammy w/ +shadow skills & some resist
    +ias gloves & other mods
    weapons need to be better (NM Anya worth gambling w?)
    & ryhme shield


    should I scrap merc & switch to amother type?
    then I would have to "train" him
    LVL em up so he could wear the gear.
     
  2. Bonescorpion

    Bonescorpion IncGamers Member

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    What weapon are u using? Is it a claw or non claw weapon. I can assume that it isnt because u have no CM. Ok what exactly is going wrong, are u getting killed to easy? Cant kill anything? Cant hit anything? Just so I can get an idea. IMO one of the major flaws of the bf myth is that cb is important. IMO it isnt as important as Deadly strike (except on bosses). According to most knowledgable people they say that CB with BF is 1/8 the hps (assuming less then a 4 player game). In hell because of immunities thats gonna go to 1/16 of the hp's (according to AS its 1/16 hps for missile weapon, is bf a missle weapon?? If it is cb only does 1/32 hps in hell) On a low end monster that is pretty weak. If u can get some kind of weapon that has decent damage and then get a high amount of deadly strike u can consistently double the physical damage part of ur attack. Mix that in with ur venom and u are doing a nice clip of damage.

    When I was planning my Bf assassin out this is what I had laid out for her (I also am quite item poor).

    Guilluames
    Higlords
    LanceGuard
    Gore's
    Shaft
    Bartucs
    String (crappy 10% d/r)
    Some nice 3/2 10% cb gloves

    Now with that setup (minding u that i maxed out cm for the ar and venom as well)
    I was doing roughly 600 + 500 (apprx poison)

    Ok assuming u are lvl 74 u will have 77.75% of dealing a deadly strike and dont forget about the 20% of doind cs form mastery. So that would be a total of 82.2% of doing double damage, not to mention that I still have 60% (kinda a nice side effect from guilluames and gore's)
    So assuming 600 damage U are gonna average around 1100 damage + ur venom + cb - enemy resistances.

    I would also recommend shopping two shadow claws, and casting them on weapon switch for ur fade, get ur d/r up, it couldnt hurt.... Just my opinion of course
     
  3. Frankeinstein

    Frankeinstein IncGamers Member

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    Yep all the above!

    I just haven't found or have been able to trade for decent weapons for starters. Bnet can get weird when it comes to trading... I have been SP for years, then I got cable & hooked up on bnet cause it was fun playing in groups... I have plenty of gera on my SP chars but can't bring that over to Bnet.

    anyway, I really need to build up my $$$$ so I can start to gamble again. but since they nerfed gambling for uniques way back, is it worth it in the long run?

    oh yea weapon is
    coldkill hachet as main &
    some low end claw w/ 1-178 lit dam (switch)
    claw ended up being better than axe I was using 1st

    thx for replying w/ some real questions & answers rather than uber stuff I just can't get.

    btw, where would the best place to MF for bartucs be? or anything on your list...

    which leads me to another question is there a list of itemsTC out there... I guess this would be in the FAQ section of the forum so I will check there next.

    Again thx for responding, I feel there is some hope left in this char.
    My semi retired assy katara lvl 86 did finish Hell in 1.09 but she was a Ma assy which I founs much easier to kill with. The Blade fury sin is a nice variant that still fits the assy profile.

    I wish they had a sword skill to add to the tree cause ninja's do use samari swords!!!
     
  4. Frankeinstein

    Frankeinstein IncGamers Member

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    forgot to ask, you using c/c or c/s?
     
  5. Bonescorpion

    Bonescorpion IncGamers Member

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    I was c/s, sorry i forgot about that I had a swordback hold for the open wounds.

    Ok next question what is ur current damage output listed in ur stat screen? Can u seperate ur venom damage plz :). Also are u ladder or non ladder. If u are non ladder u might be able to pick up a fury claw very cheap, they arent that popular anymore and they have the all important 33% deadly strike and ITD. Lanceguard most people just throw away, I would just put up a lost in the trading forum, especially for the cheap stuff (lanceguard, rockfleece (nice cheap substitute for shaft), guillames) that will give u a nice flying start.

    My assassin stalled at about 67, kinda got bored but she is ready to start up anytime soon. Maybe after my current pitrunner assassin is done :). Give me a whisper on either *bonescorpion or *bonescorpion2 ...........
     
  6. Salo

    Salo IncGamers Member

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    I noticed that goblin toes are excellent items for this build. I am level 23 claw shield, it roared through normal, have several +3 max/ar sc's (legits) on her, claw mastery is like level 18, so they multiply to a level that makes it auto-hit in normal. The toes made diablo die about 20x faster, and even did well when was near a sliver. People do not realize how good these things are im realizing. probably the best boots in the game, im thinking better than gore riders actually (exception is if you have no other way to deal open wounds or rely on it as your top effect)

    I'm looking into getting a pair of Steelrends. people say the str isnt worth it, but well im rather richie rich on uswest and I am planning on using enigma. (goblin toes and engima give +45% faster runwalk)

    i also do not plan on using guillames face. i find that having no mf creates for intense boredom at this very elderly stage of my diablo1 - diablo2 career. So i circumvent that situation by using a Shako with topaz in it. my gear plan is as follows (note, cheaper suggestions are below)

    Shako
    7% ll 123 AR 35 Life rare ring
    224/20dex Raven frost - goes on most of my chars
    Amulet - up for grabs, with Fade, dont need res all particularly, looking into atma's (bosses with cblow and Amp do take on a lot of damage)
    Enigma dusk shroud
    Chaos Suwayah - its ethereal, good high roll, sick damage forget the amount
    Belt - im considering: Verdungo, Goldwrap or Nosferatu
    Gloves - I have 10% cblow with 6% LL ones that were previously useless (no ias or mana) but now are pimp. Steelrend ill switch to if over 45% ED and somone is willing to trade.
    Boots - Probably end up with gores. Toes are so awesome though for high hp monsters.

    Max Claw Mastery
    None in SM - eh, people find them irritating in parties, and im a veteran bnet player, can get by without the protection.
    Max Venom
    Max or near max DS
    3 pts into Fire Blast (1 more shot from all my DS's, creating a 6th trap. DS's i can place according to radius, more often the amount of times fired will kill vs its radius, its not a CE skill with one centerpoint needing a big radius, plus I have +4 all skills on my build.)
    Near max or max fade.
    With the build i propose ill have 18% dr at least from gear, and 24% from fade, good enough to get near the 50% i feel.
    Might merc

    ---




    i suggest trading for +max/ar charms. too many people are saying "go all effect!!" it just isnt so. Claw mastery gives a good boost to damage, if you have then some strong deadly strike and critical strike, that good boost plus good base damage means fast killing. I know chaos claws are out of your league, and im guessing fury probably are as well. try imbue quest when you are a higher level on some Suwayah's. then again, if you havent put points into claw mastery, forget that I guess.

    my understanding of this build is that AR is very important and that none of you people have any to show in hell. when you play an effects character, you have to make sure you hit it constantly, setting off the %chance for the effect. its more important in an effect character than in a straight damage dealing character who might hit 1 out of two, yet kills things because of strong damage.

    suggestion: angelic ring and amulet, 1 rare ring with AR and 7%+ leech. the crown of thieves at 12% is rather nice if you deal decent phys damage. guillames if not. some would say leeching is useless on a low damage dealing type, but if you shoot at 6 frames and you can make most hit, leech helps as youre going. another suggestion is use a Might merc. double damage, then deadly strike, double again. 4x damage and leeching works well.

    i duno, im just not happy with peoples suggestion on the usage of crescent moon runeword thing, or non claw based builds that also do not solve the AR problem. you only need like 2500 in hell if you get ok levels. sounds like a lot, but if you have some item that gives +% ar (maybe a circlet) and angelic ammy and ring, you can hit it easily. using claw shield or weapon shield means you put a bit into Dex and so that further goes up.

    itd is junk, try killing a boss!
     
  7. Frankeinstein

    Frankeinstein IncGamers Member

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    BS 46-76
    BF 85-139

    w/ venom

    BS 224-461
    BF 441-510

    things are getting a bit better in NM, I took off some defence/ resist/damge items for more MF. I up to about 80% MF. & started doing meph & baal runs in NM.

    Found an Eth crown of thieves last night & a Kudo bow. (can't use the bow but might be good for trade later.

    Gave crown to merc!!! very happy w/ that :thumbsup:

    now merc just slays everything it hits

    merc gear:

    Eth Crown of thieves (def 451)
    Eth Honor mancatcher
    Trangs armor


    this is helping quite q bit as he is now a unbelieveable tank

    now I just need to work on my gear


    BTW, Bone Scorpion, you play east or west? I'm on east.
     
  8. Bonescorpion

    Bonescorpion IncGamers Member

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    I am east.... I disagree with the goblin toes, they will make a difference in normal and nm with cb activated it does (1/8 or 1/16 hps depends on which source of info correct) but in hell with teh 50% physical immunities that is gona get halfed. While the cb is great on bosses it isnt that great on lower enemies. I mean some cb is good, but going all out is a mistake imo.
     
  9. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    50% PI's have been removed in hell, but in exchange, monster hp's have doubled and tripled.

    Haven't you noticed the lack of PI's?
     
  10. Bonescorpion

    Bonescorpion IncGamers Member

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    Whoops, my bad, that I am almost positive that cb only does 1/16 when activated by bf......
     
  11. squigipapa

    squigipapa IncGamers Member

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    NM runs can net you some really, really nice stuff! meph, eldritch, baal & many others can drop some great gear. I usually do pit runs in hell, however every now and then I go back to NM and mf for a while because it's so easy and so fast. I can load up with way more MF gear in NM also.
    I say go back to NM and collect the gear that will make hell more bearable.
     
  12. Salo

    Salo IncGamers Member

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    grr..... i get really edgy when people mess up Cblow. heres the rules.

    Melee normal monster, 1/4 monster hp remaining
    Melee end boss 1/8 or or 1/12 forget, which is absolutely enormous. try 4-5 players in game vs nm diablo, guy with the toes on makes the kill.

    Ranged: 1/16 all the time any time any monster.

    if a monster has 2000 hps in one player hell, and 8000 hps in 8 player (goese up 50% for each new player), youll do 1/16th of 2000 = 125 damage, and in 8 player you will do 500 damage from cblow. so in multi games it rox as a free bonus after you make a damage roll. (can be 1-2 fire damage sc, but it has to register).

    thats how it works, and works better than it would seem.
     
  13. Frankeinstein

    Frankeinstein IncGamers Member

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    Things are starting to look up for me. I traded for a Jade Talon early this morning. that brought my damage, ar, & resists way up from the axe I was using.

    I now have 75% resist all in NM w/o fade! I may have paid too much for them, but it was worth it to me ATM. Killing meph was cake.

    This also freed up 6 spaces in backback for now.

    Guess I'm gonna need to make another mule now for the stuff I am starting to find.
     
  14. Bonescorpion

    Bonescorpion IncGamers Member

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    Funny maybe u should get edgy with urself, this is direct from AS
    "Crushing Blow
    This is a chance of reducing a monster's health by X% in a single blow.


    -Default: 1/4th
    -vs. Players: 1/10th
    -vs. Hirelings: 1/10th
    -vs. Champions, Uniques, Bosses: 1/8th
    -with missile weapons: 1/16th
    -The life removed is also scaled with number of players. So that if a monster has 450% more life due to 8 players (or whatever the value is) the life removed is further reduced by the same amount (450% would equal multiplying by 4.5 so the life removed by Crushing Blow is divided by 4.5).

    So that 500 u are supposedly doing in hell 8 player game is really 500/4.5 or 111.11, cb = OVERATED on a bf build against low minions (kicker its total different, 1/4 is 4x more then 1/16), cb is great vs bosses however.

    OK a zombie in act1 hell has hp's of 3238-6168 or an avg of 4703. Everytime u activate cb with bf u get 293 damage and dont forget that will scale down as the hp's go down. In a 8 player game the zombie will have 21163 avg hps.
    A cb will do 1322.68/4.5 = 293, in other words the same damage. I would rather do a consistant double damage from my bf then sacrifice that for cb.
     
  15. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    You can potentially do both if you wield Headstriker.. but then you lack Claw Mastery's ed% bonus.
     
  16. Bonescorpion

    Bonescorpion IncGamers Member

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    Yes, which is why I preach deadly strike for this build. In the equipment that I listed I would still of had 60% cb. I am not saying that u shouldnt have it, but that its overated on a bf build. Deadly strike is more important. Frankenstein what physical damage is listed in ur stats screen now that u are using a jade talon.
     
  17. jmervyn

    jmervyn IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the tip, Bovine

    I had been looking to sell off my Headstriker - my rune runs haven't netted me the ingredients for Crescent Moon or Delerium :rant: and I'm dissatisfied with the Marketplace.

    But Angel Veil is 86 or 87 untwinked now, and for her combat rig she has a vanilla Bartucs on her 'weak' hand, and an eth Strength runic talons as the 'strong' hand. Venom doesn't seem to be as beneficial as I'd hoped, and she has to depend heavily on SM and Blessed Aim merc when running Haeph, but she doesn't have any problems against all act non-missile monsters.

    I guess I don't understand what the problem is... my armor is a 4 ptopaz wyrmhide, and I was using a ptopaz tarn until fairly recently. I have yet to see gores or toes... sure, I've gotta run back sometimes, and I'm weak on LI's, but hey! Works well enough for me... in 1.09 my assns used to die to A3 bone dolls willy-nilly.
     
  18. Bonescorpion

    Bonescorpion IncGamers Member

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    If u dont mind what equipment are u using??
     
  19. Salo

    Salo IncGamers Member

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    yeah you wont do consistent double damage, however cb is easy to attain a high percentage. 10 blood 25 toes 25 rattlecage 35 guillame's face = 95% with stuff most likely everyone has on a mule. That's about game max as effects at 100% do not work 100% of the time, diminishing random formula.

    deadly strike means highlord's wrath, an amulet that is very uneventful for this build. +1 skills, uneeded light res, just deadly strike really, some light damage. I find that 7% Etlich does quite a lot, although atma's will eventually be what im using if i dont get a good safety craft going. (blocking is neat) If it's that hard to kill, atma's will eventually kick in and that means it has a lot of hps, so phys damage musnt be doing that hot, thus needing more effect than 2x damage.

    those numbers i spouted were from memory, i dont ever do melee so I had to guess the lower % of the unique and bosses. 1/16 is always from ranged, its overpowered if you have strong ar at 1/8. the summit also has INCORRECT wording on cblow at the end of the statement, something most people on forums wouldnt want to hear. It scales favorably in multi games, doing more and more damage. deadly just doubles and doesn't scale.

    21163 divided by 16 = 1322.7 damage. PLEASE DONT TELL ME AS SAYS IT DOESNT SCALE THIS WAY. it was debated for a while and was determined by Kirsty and the forum ops of druid column that cblow scales favorably, it doesnt do the same damage, it doese 1/16 at ranged of whatever the monster's actual hps are. thats what i said the grr about, i knew someone was going to go along with the unedited release of the text on Arreat summit. Should i explain? hardly anyone listens to this explanation in the past. but here goes, if you look at the entire last paragraph on cblow, it is clearly explaining how hps and cblow damage scales up in 8 player mode. Then the last sentence reverses this whole thing. read it without the last half of the last sentence. If you look at the whole thing, it negates itself and is many lines of useless text if you take it as correctly written. the summit is not at all Blizzard and often has errors that never ever ever get corrected after the patch is released.

    this guy probably won't trust me that cblow scales, but eh what can you do, it isnt a myth. dont base your characters on the idea that it doesnt, try it out, get a crushflange and put toes on and cblow gloves, put a rattle cage on. take off all damage dealing items and charms, go to hell with a few solo, then go to hell with 4 people in it. see what it does. you know that if a monster has 9000 hps, your normal mace isnt doing squat to it, especially with hell regen. bam, youll notice in melee (if you dont get pummeled to death before you hit it, lol, maybe you should put angelic pieces on first) you'll see the little poofie X blast thing and monster hps drop. that isnt 293 damage, that would be a sliver, notice it drop a chunk. (some monsters have varying phys resistance, just no more 50% global, amp and decrep bring it down to 0 according to many veteran posters/testers not below, so might want to try getting an item with amp charges, that maul thing has them)


    anyways, theres how to show proof. long tedious, but better to just stack up on cblow and watch the exp rate fly up. act bosses really get squished if you amp them then high % cblow even after they hit the 1/4 to death on their life bar and you are doing 1/16 cblow damage. whew. thats it, I will never again will i hold the cblow flag for another forum, i gota take a dump anyways.

    And i dont mean to be argumentative, i said this convo would cause a grr.... Deadly strike is a great mod to have, it just is harder to work into the builds most people have as they normally use lower resist items, Open wounds, some cblow and Venom. they dont really focus on physical damage. now if you got some botd etherea zerker axe with 390%+ on it, then deadly might be best cuz of diminishing effect on cblow. deadly is good, just well, hell is hell now and we need to cheat as much as possible with monster hps. time for that poop.
     
  20. Frankeinstein

    Frankeinstein IncGamers Member

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    See I'm just the opposite. In 1.09, my MA assy walked thru hell all the way thru ACT5.
    I ended up turning her into An MF assy at LvL 85. Now that hurt. but that was in SP. & I had nats, bartucs, skullders, etc ... all the good stuff.

    but since the 1.10 patch & paying BF instead caus eit looked like a nice change...
    I am not complaining, Just turned out to harder than I thought it would be in hell. If I end up just making a "low lvl MF BF assy" that would be fine, but I believe I can finish the game with her w/ some more work.

    NOW THAT is Where I want to be!!! Then I will retire her.

    Start a kicker or something else as a variant... Thought about making a terrorist... Fire bomb as main skill & see where that goes.
     

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