Need help in a weapon choice for dualwielding.

Krishh

Diabloii.Net Member
Need help in a weapon choice for dualwielding.

So I've gathered most of the gear I need for my barbarian (Eth botd ba, enigma etc.) but I need some opinions on this one:

Which weapon would be the most use with botd ba ?

Death
Beast
Doom
(or grief even ?)

Been thinking of one of those 4. But yeah add your suggestions if it's out of the list. I've read some ww guide's but they all just present the choices mostly :undecided:
And to make it easier: Let's say you only could afford 1 of those, which one would you pick ? (I'm sure they all have use in different situations, but I'm thinking of beast, because some people have ravenfrosts and such.)

Thanks already
:smiley:
 

Ce Olba

Banned
For max effectiveness: grief/beast berzerker axes

For max coolness: ebotd colossus blades
Dual EBotd CBs do rather pathetic damage. If you insist on using an EBotdCB, either do it with a shield or two-handed.

OT: buahaha, finally I got myself a simple avatar with no background.



 

sirwhere

Diabloii.Net Member
Dual EBotd CBs do rather pathetic damage. If you insist on using an EBotdCB, either do it with a shield or two-handed.
Why do you say that? Dual ebotds do roughly double their 1h-damage, which is just about the same as their 2h-damage...

The only difference in dual-wielding is that you'll be blowing twice as many runes :)



 

pxlxyxr

Banned
definitely go with beastz and griefz for ur barb. effective bvc duelers are some of the best chars in the game.
 

Ce Olba

Banned
definitely go with beastz and griefz for ur barb. effective bvc duelers are some of the best chars in the game.
But then again, when we see that he is using an EBotdZ, he is most likely a PvMer.

dual grief best damage
Sorry, but that's not how it is. Grief+Beast does the best damage over time. Yes, Grief+Grief might do the best damage for the first two or three hitchecks (total 5 grief hits at most), but anything onwards will be in favor to Grief+Beast.



 

TheBe

Diabloii.Net Member
It would be easier if you tell if you are pvp or pvm. Anyway, for pvp (bvc) grief+beast makes best damage, but in pvm, I'd go with ebotd.
 

Ce Olba

Banned
It would be easier if you tell if you are pvp or pvm. Anyway, for pvp (bvc) grief+beast makes best damage, but in pvm, I'd go with ebotd.
Indeed. With exactly the same gear, EBotdZ leeches a little bit more life (EBotdZ=1178.5, GriefZ=635.2, both perfect).



 

Krishh

Diabloii.Net Member
Actually it's mostly pvp, but I just decided to go for botd as I used that back then for .. well I don't know why but I just though I'd :p

But yeah I doubt I'll be getting myself another "main" weapon. So beast it is then.
 

Barloc

Diabloii.Net Member
I still use ebotdz because I can't seem to afford Griefz on NL. I've used dual eBotdz as well as eBotdz/beast and ebotdz/doom. I wasn't overly impressed with ebotdz/beast as my dual ebotdz seemed to yeild better damage, probably due to some stat imperfections, yet something to consider. If I remember correctly, Ce Olba did some number crunching on that too since my average damage was actually higher with 2/ebotdz.

Funny thing tho, with my limited stash space only allowing for 1 other weapon, I came full circle and went back to a weapon I discarded long ago - doom.
The affect that holy-freeze has on other characters, along with being a solid weapon, damage-wise, has personally provided me with more enjoyment.
Thats more of a closed quarters effectiveness, against paladins for example.

I'll prob try beast again, but not til i get Grief

peace
 

themdamnducks

Diabloii.Net Member
I personally use a eBotd cb and a Grief cb. I use him for pvm only as i don't do much dueling but with that setup i do crazy damage! I also have Fort for the enhanced dam to go along.
 

Ce Olba

Banned
I still use ebotdz because I can't seem to afford Griefz on NL. I've used dual eBotdz as well as eBotdz/beast and ebotdz/doom. I wasn't overly impressed with ebotdz/beast as my dual ebotdz seemed to yeild better damage, probably due to some stat imperfections, yet something to consider. If I remember correctly, Ce Olba did some number crunching on that too since my average damage was actually higher with 2/ebotdz.

Funny thing tho, with my limited stash space only allowing for 1 other weapon, I came full circle and went back to a weapon I discarded long ago - doom.
The affect that holy-freeze has on other characters, along with being a solid weapon, damage-wise, has personally provided me with more enjoyment.
Thats more of a closed quarters effectiveness, against paladins for example.

I'll prob try beast again, but not til i get Grief

peace
Here are the calcs that I did. Notice that there is no OW added.

EBotdZ+BeastZ (EBotd over 10 hitchecks, Beast over 9)
EBotdZ:
47.5 * 1.5 * 5.15 * 8.95 * 1.4852 * 10 =
71.25 * 5.15 * 8.95 * 1.4852 * 10 =
366.9375 * 8.95 * 1.4852 * 10 =
3284.09062 * 1.4852 * 10 =
4877.53139 * 10 =
48775.3139
BeastZ:
47.5 * 3.85 * 8.95 * 1.4852 * 9 =
182.875 * 8.95 * 1.4852 * 9 =
1636.73125 * 1.4852 * 9 =
2430.87325 * 9 =
21877.8593
Total: 70653.1732, After PvP penalty 12011.0394

EBotdZ+EBotdZ (1 over 10 hitchecks, other over 9 hitchecks, totals at 19)
47.5 * 1.5 * 5.15 * 6.99 * 1.4852 *19 =
71.25 * 5.15 * 6.99 * 1.4852 * 19 =
366.9375 * 6.99 * 1.4852 * 19 =
2564.89312 * 1.4852 * 19 =
3809.37926 * 19 =
72378.2059, after PvP penalty 12304.295
So in the end, the damage difference is minimal. If you factor in the added OW from Beast, you get this:

EBotdZ+Beast: 12001.0394 + 1333.4961 + 2400.29298 = 15734.8285
EBotdZ+EBotdZ: 12304.295 + 2533.64259 = 14837.9376

So in the end, if you calculate the average damage added by ow (ow total damage * hit checks * chance to trigger ow), EBotdZ+Beast is superior. However, for a totally correct calculation you would actually need to calculate the added damage over frames instead of hitchecks (I calculated full ow * hitchecks, meaning you would need to attack every 8 seconds for those numbers). As for per frame, it would look like this:

EBotdZ+BeastZ: 12001.0394 + (40 * 2.6669922) + (36 * 5.3339844) = 12299.7425

EBotdZ+EBotdZ: 12304.295 + (76 * 2.6669922) = 12506.9864

However, adding OW per frame does not give out the real damage, as it won't trigger very often.



 

Barloc

Diabloii.Net Member
Thank you. Yes true. Depending on the quality of those items the numbers of course will be scewed differently as well. What do you think of Doom? More of a BvA weapon then a BvC weapon I suppose. The lower damage can be off-set by slowing the hit checks of your opponent, so it would seem.

Peace
 

Ce Olba

Banned
Thank you. Yes true. Depending on the quality of those items the numbers of course will be scewed differently as well. What do you think of Doom? More of a BvA weapon then a BvC weapon I suppose. The lower damage can be off-set by slowing the hit checks of your opponent, so it would seem.

Peace
Here:

BeastZ
Average damage: 47.5
Ethereal: No
+ED%: 285%
+SkillED%: 765%
Deadly Strike: 34%
Critical Strike: 22%

Total Damage over 40 frames (10 hitchecks or 1.6 seconds of constant whirling):
47.5 * 3.85 * 8.65 * 1.4852 * 10 =
182.875 * 8.65 * 1.4852 * 10 =
1581.86875 * 1.4852 * 10 =
2349.39147 * 10 =
23493.9147

DoomZ
Average damage: 47.5
Ethereal: No
+ED%: 385%
+SkillED%: 539%
Deadly Strike: 54%
Critical Strike: 22%

Damage over 40 frames (or 10 hitchecks or 1.6 seconds of constant whirling):
47.5 * 4.85 * 6.39 * 1,6412 * 10=
230.375 * 6.39 * 1.6412 * 10 =
1472.09625 * 1.6412 * 10 =
2416.00437 * 10 =
24160.0437
Comparison of Beast and DoomZ on my BvC as individual weapons. As you can see, DoomZ deals slightly more damage with no OW taken into account.

Overall Doom is a decent weapon, but is of no comparison to Beast when used with a powerful weapon like Grief or EBotdZ.



 

Barloc

Diabloii.Net Member
Agreed. Yes on its own merits Doom is good. Damage of grief/beast is of course superior etc. Wouldn't you agree that Holy Freeze is a positive force in the effectiveness of dueling certain characters?
 

Ce Olba

Banned
Agreed. Yes on its own merits Doom is good. Damage of grief/beast is of course superior etc. Wouldn't you agree that Holy Freeze is a positive force in the effectiveness of dueling certain characters?
Well, it helps versus bowazons and smiters, but it's pretty useless versus other opponents, specially since most of them are casters which are left unaffected by Holy Freeze.



 

Barloc

Diabloii.Net Member
Well, it helps versus bowazons and smiters, but it's pretty useless versus other opponents, specially since most of them are casters which are left unaffected by Holy Freeze.
Yes defineatly vs bow/smite it seems. I think vs hammerdin too. Kind of a "sub-class" caster that still requires short range attack, and freeze does slow down their cast rate. I'd say Hammer is by far the most popular PK character out there and Paladin,as a character, is the most popular class out there (seems so on east anyway). Must be why I like Doom, as it's a good pub anti-paladin weapon.



 
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