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Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by Voided, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. Voided

    Voided IncGamers Member

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    Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    Well ,
    I am not doing a lot of damage and i don't know why. maybe someone could offer some suggestions. and i'm new to this forum. Ive never played the zon

    Bowzon

    Strength: 190 Straffe damage is maxed at 3504 (ewww)
    Dex : 391 Guided arrow at 4647 ( thats sucks also)
    Vitality : 128
    Everngy : 46

    GEAR

    Bow/// Windforce not yet socketed
    Helm// Andys / 40/15
    Ammy/ Catseye
    Chest/ 1586 fort as usuall
    Gloves/ Glyph hands- 2 bowskill/20 ias/15 strength/5 dex/ light res 20%
    Rings// death loop 99ar/33life/10 mana,,,ravenfrost
    Belt/// nosfers coils
    Boots/ Goreriders and waterwalks
    Anni
    And Ztorch equipped also,
    Act 1 merc/faith, 3 os skull w/ 40/15 and eth fort. What am i really doing wrong that is not powerful at all.
     
  2. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    This is a pretty damn good equipment set.

    What makes you think you aren't doing enough damage? Just the displayed numbers or the performance in the game?
     
  3. Voided

    Voided IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    just by the numbers i see for straffe and guided damage. Im used to playing pally zeal and hammers and my damage is always at or around 10K for hammers and 9k for zeal. My Sin trap light is at 9K. I like to go by numbers on damage. While at this forum you guys have taught me soo much and i look foward to playing other characters in pvm. I never used to play pvm cause some punk would always kill us for no reason. anyways i know how to pvp but now i have to pvm for fun again. but yes im going strictly bu the damage is shows. i feel she should kill alot easier though. shes no ligh java but i would guess 3/4 as powerful. so i was wondering what can i do to help my zon deal atleast 2k more straffe damage.
     
  4. Voided

    Voided IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    yes i cannot kill big groups. damage is way to low.
     
  5. MFDeath

    MFDeath IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    Well first of all I just have to plainly assure you that you can't base your entire opinion solely by the numbers displayed on the LCS (Lying Character Screen). By no means does it give you a complete overview of your real damage per second, since it only displays single attacks without taking into account any resistances or other mods.

    You have to remember that whatever damage you see listed there you are dealing *multiple times per second*, and applying again by any shots which pierce and hit. More specifically, your real damage output is what's listed on the screen, times the numbers of arrows fired per shot, times how many times per second you fire. So for example, a 4k Guided Arrow at the highest breakpoint (7-frames) would actually ouput 14k dmg per second even though it only says 4k on your screen [4000*(25/7)=14,000]. BIG difference, and it gets even bigger with muliple arrow skills like Strafe and Multi, and more with Pierce.

    All in all, the point I'm trying to illustrate is that caring about the numbers alone is rather foolish, because what really counts is in-game performance. There's no numbers competition in PvM, no one cares about anything other than kill speed and survivability. If you're not having trouble dropping monsters or staying alive, there's no problem.

    EDIT: I was actually typing this up while you replied that you can't kill big groups, as it was unclear wether you in fact were having trouble or just superficially weren't satisifed with the numbers... but I'm out fo time for now so I will have to offer some tips later.
     
  6. Crying Freeman

    Crying Freeman IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    Switch that Nosferatu for Razortails belt, +damage, 15 dex, pierce.
    Switch that glove for Laying of Hands +350% damage to demons.
    Switch Cat's Eye for Atma's Scarab

    Get a Might merc, stick a Pride on him.

    After all that you should see more or less about 5k Strafe damage. Add to that high Critical Strike(more than 50%) and you will have 10k Strafe most of the time.
    And the Atma's, breaks immunities and lowers physical resistance.

    See how that treats you.
     
  7. droid

    droid IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    Well a couple obvious problems and then some more subtle ones...

    Seems like your purchasing power greatly exceeds your expertise with bowzons, which makes me wonder how you acquired all that stuff...:scratchhead:

    ======

    Socket the WF with Shael, which will let you drop Cats Eye for Atma's. Monsters will melt when Amp triggers and doubles/triples your damage vs most Hell monsters. You only need 95 IAS assuming your merc's Faith is L13+ Fanat. Also solves your need for a PI solution.

    You dont want nos coil, you want Razortail for +damage and 100% piercing (with L9 Pierce). This'll solve a lot of your problems vs groups.

    Stick with Gores, the CB and DS give you more than Waterwalk

    Those gloves are mighty, but dont really offer you that much aside from the ias and, effectively, 20% off-weapon ED. LoH, although much more pedestrian, might actually be better for the 350 DvD and the fire res, offsetting your Andy's -fire res

    That second ring seems very scrubby compared to the rest of your stuff :) A second Raven is the best immediate option, ideally you want a rare with some combination of +max/str/dex/ar/maybe leech and res

    You have too much STR, you only need 134 for Windforce.

    If you really want to min/max, a Might merc with Pride, Andys, and CoH is the ideal merc for a bowzon. Faith helps about the same as Might/Pride when you're using MS or GA, but the IAS component of Faith doesnt benefit Strafe. Might/Pride gives its full bonus to all skills, giving it an edge.

    ======

    Also, keep in mind two things about bowzons vs zeal pallys/barbs/etc. First, they do ranged damage, which is always going to be less than melee damage for two reasons: first, its inherently safer; second, its faster since you dont have to get into melee range to begin combat.

    Zons dont get the benefit of the overpowered runeword Grief, and bows are never eth so we cant make an eBOTD bow like you can make an eBOTD zerker axe.

    And lastly, remember that Zons have the highest chance of any class for double damage. With L16 CS and Gores, you have a 70% chance for double damage on every attack. That means that 3504 Strafe damage (which I suspect was taken in town and so was not counting your Fanat bonus) is effectively 5965, firing every 3 frames.
     
  8. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    Okay. Your equipment is just about godly. You have some of the most powerful strafer items in the game, including a bunch of things which I don't have (Windforce, Nosferatu's coil, Gores, Torch and Anni, 40/15 jewels), and strafers can easily dominate the game with much more modest setups (they're actually much more effective against large groups than against single large targets).

    Your listed damage is NOT a reliable indicator of anything. Keep in mind that strafer damage is multiplied by Critical Strike and Deadly strike, as well as Pierce.

    I'm thinking the problem might be with your skills distribution and/or chance to hit. You don't do damage if you don't hit the target. What's your chance to hit against monsters?
     
  9. Voided

    Voided IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    Thanks for all th input. As i said, I have never played the zon. I have switched to gores and shaeld the WF. I am looking for razor-tail now. Also, It was mentioned that i only need enough strength to hold the WF, What about the spirit shield. That needs 171 strength. Do i really need that shield?
     
  10. iomanip

    iomanip IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    171 str.. hmm.. assuming you're using CtA/spirit on switch then? Ther is no shield in the game that have 171str req, or is there? Anyways, a monarch spirit is only 154 str req, lidless is 58(?) and a 'splendor' round shield is 22 str. Losing 1 skillpoint in BO, but 37 extra points from str to dex.

    peace!
    /iomanip
     
  11. MFDeath

    MFDeath IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    Actually 156str for monarch... which you really don't need regardless. If you're using CtA on switch consider reducing strength and swapping for a Lidless, you'll be gaining more by reinvesting those points in dex for a sacrifice of only +1skill on swap. Demon Limb may be another thing to consider having on switch as the enchant gives a mad AR bonus. Another quick point just in case, once you get that Razortail make sure your Pierce skill is at lvl9 in order to stack with the belt for slightly over 100% Pierce.
     
  12. droid

    droid IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    Bowazons dont need CtA, really. Your life is low to begin with, so you're only going from low to kinda low. You leech so much, you only need enough life to avoid getting one-hit. I find about 650 life when fully equipped is enough to avoid most alpha-strikes.

    On switch, DL is a good choice for the AR. Personally, though, I prefer Harmony +3 MB on switch for pure bowazons. It gives you a +3 prebuff to your Valk, as well as Vigor aura which really helps you cover distances fast. And the big elemental damage is nice for whittling down PIs with Strafe until your Amp triggers.
     
  13. Voided

    Voided IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    Okay thanks for the info. So on switch Use harmony. Ok Now for the merc i have act 2 offensive and i have coh and fort, (which one do i use?) Also do i use pride with that. The pride polearm i have is really low damage like 250 damage? he get somewher around 1500 damage at level 80. Soes this sound right?


     
  14. droid

    droid IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    CoH and Pride, yes. At very high levels & top end gear, your merc is really just a walking +damage aura for you. He will rarely actually get to melee range with anything before you kill it, so the damage he does is less important. Andy's + CoH will give him +4 levels to his Might aura, and Pride will give you Conc.
     
  15. Voided

    Voided IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    Just an update: got a merc from nightmare and hes offensive. I havent seen his aura for thorns pop up or any aura at that. I am doing sick damage though with his pride. The only thing that rapes the living pokemon out of me is the souls in the frozen river and baals throne. I did manage to hell diablo by myself which is a biggg step up. Thank you.
     
  16. Shanksie1337

    Shanksie1337 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    Why thorns?
    I prefer WT's instead of Gores on a Bowie, but this debate is about as old as the MS vs Strafe one :).
    Charm wise what are you using, find/trade/roll some nice +max charms for some nice silly numbers, there's a "rate my zon epeen extension" thread somewhere on this forum which will give you some idea of what numbers the LCS lie to you about.

    I'd agree on the Demon Limb instead of the CTA, BO doesn't really do much for us for the reasons mentioned above. What will kill you is low resists + gloams, personally i don't bother take my strafer to places where gloams live, but it's doable - a nice WWS on switch with some budget +res gear, like Kiras, should do the job should you absolutely positively insist on playing with gloams.

    You can probably go lower than the 134 (i think) str required for the WF by str bugging her with items on switch / charms. You certainly don't want anymore that 134 tho.

    What AR / Chance to Hit do you have? Have you got some / max points in Penetrate?
     
  17. droid

    droid IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    A2 Nightmare Offensive is not Thorns, I think you meant to say Might. Thorns is utterly worthless, but Might is the one you want. Might aura should look like golden radiating "sunbeams" shining out from under your feet.

    Keep in mind that when you start a new game, your merc will not have Might active. He activates it randomly when he attacks, and once it's active will remain active till you leave a game or he dies. Concentration from Pride will be active as soon as you leave town, though.

    I find an easy way to get him to quickly activate his Might is to go to the Frigid Highlands WP in A5, run north until you trigger Eldritch and his pack, and then go run behind your merc, and then sit there while he attacks the pack until you see Might activate. Once it does, cast Valk + Strafe to clear away the rest and move on to what you want to do. Its fast, its easy, he almost always activates before he kills them all, and I've never had a problem with him not being able to tank it, unless they're Cursed + Fanat or something silly like that.
     
  18. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    My observation is that the merc activates his aura not when he attacks- randomly or otherwise- but when he gets hit. If you send him against monsters which are too few and too weak to deliver a substantial blow, he can spend quite some time killing them one by one without activating his aura. I suggest you let him get mobbed for a few seconds; once he takes the first couple of blows he will switch the aura on.


     
  19. droid

    droid IncGamers Member

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    Re: Need A lot Of hep w/ Bowzon

    Sorry, Tumble, but that's just incorrect...the reason you're probably not seeing him activate it as often against low monsters is that it only takes one hit to kill them :)

    The mechanics of mercenaries have been unpacked and examined in the actual game files. Your merc has a certain chance to use a regular attack or one of its special attacks. For instance, an A1 Cold merc can either fire a regular Attack or use Cold Arrow. At higher levels, the chance to use Cold Arrow goes up and the chance to use Attack goes down. Likewise with A5 for Bash/Stun, A3 for their elemental skills.

    For A2 Mercs, the skills in their arsenal are Jab, their aura, and maybe Attack (I forget). At higher levels, the chance to use Jab goes up and the chance to activate their aura goes down, so higher level mercs take longer to aura-up than low ones. Its definitely the "attack" mechanism that triggers this check, though; the aura is considered one of the merc's "attacks". This is also why your A2 merc will occasionally "pause" midcombat for a few beats; his attack roll came up "aura" even though it's already on.

    If it was indeed activate-when-struck, then using high-def ebugged armor would actually make your merc less useful, since the CtH a merc with a 4k+ suit of armor is in the teens for most Hell monsters, and the chance to activate the aura is in single digits at endgame levels...
     

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