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Necro and bone armor

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by ceeshond, May 26, 2008.

  1. ceeshond

    ceeshond IncGamers Member

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    Necro and bone armor

    I know this might fit better in necro discussions.. but.. well.. i play hardcore so it fit both :p

    My question is.. how needed will bone armor be for a HC necro. im gonna play a Fishy mancer or whatever its called :p the one with the skellys maxed.. mastery and CE .. and at the point i lose track of what to do



    after basics... leaving me with 30ish points left. i could get bone prison up to max, but i also had the idea of perhaps maxing golem mastery and use iron golem when the time comes(the time that i have decent items to use for it)

    What i had layed out now was

    20 skelly
    20 mastery
    20 golem mastery
    1 in the rest (most likely)

    CE maxed or near max (depending on how many + skill i get)
    1 in Bone armor
    10 in bone prison

    all curses get 1
    this would get me near all points used up, but like i said.. im not sure the golem mastery is worth it, when i lose the ability to max 1/2 of bone armor synergys.

    Ive found another post that discussed this somewhat, but i didnt feel convinced after reading it.
     
  2. MYK

    MYK Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    It goes like this.

    I come in and say "Max Dim Vision!"
    Then Stinger comes in and tells everyone to max to BA synergies.
    Then AgentMarth comes in and tells everyone to max out Fire Golem or Teeth.

    It's all just taste, really. Cast BA with some decent +skills. If you like it, then plug some more skill points in. Try out spamming Dim Vision around. If you cruise WsK often without Thundergod's Vigor then Dim Vision might be really worth maxing out. If you MF other places and/or have Thundergod's Vigor then you might prefer a decent BA. If I had to build the strongest Fishy I would most likely use Thundergod's Vigor, max block and bone armor, but that's just my opinion.

    I've never touched Iron Golem besides goofing off with bonesnaps and Shadow killers. Usually 3 seconds after I make one he crumbles because I'm spamming Clay Golem around at stuff, through doors, into mobs, etc.
     
  3. TheDarkSide

    TheDarkSide Clan Officer - US East Hardcore

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    Bone armor is a nice addition to a Skelemancers defense but dont max bone armor itself . Max one of its two synergies instead as they give a 15 % bonus to the armor as oppossed to 10 % the skill itself adds .

    I also only have use for three curses - Dim Vision , Amp Damage, and Decrepify .. I also tend to add a point in mages as they are useful early on .

    :thumbsup:
     
  4. ceeshond

    ceeshond IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    Thx for the info. But my main question remains somewhat :p

    I feel as a necro i should use a one of them necro head "shields" which , unless im mistaking (very likely) dont really have a decent block rate. Many people say a necro hardly gets hit anyway because he has an entire army to protect him

    so the last line of defence would be a bone armor, but i am wondering how well i fair without it. will i really die that fast? the only things hitting me should be ranged stuff, which often is elemental, so resists (i would asume) would play a much higher role then blockrate. Would the 250ish hp barier my suggested setup gives be of any use ? or does the payoff start arounf the 1 maxed with 425 9or about absorb it gives. maxing both synergys is silly

    I do realise its all a tossup, and everyone will give me a different opinion on lots of things.. i had just thought a defensive skill like bone armor would either be deemed to good to pass up (for hardcore) or a waste of points because you dont get hit often.

    (also some clearing up on max block would help.. i am not sure if its worth it, (unless theres a high block necro head shield )
     
  5. MYK

    MYK Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    All of my characters get hit. If you've got a homunculus, you block. If not... get a homunculus and block. Or else... or yeah, you can go Vita, too.

    You can play a lot of characters and "not get hit" if you're able to play that way and really enjoy yourself, then you don't need life, resists, skill points... But in the land of lag and desynch monsters and playing half-asleep; you'll get hit.

    I really like bone armor on my poison necro/summon hybrid. His skeletons/revives aren't quite a full skeleton army, so I'm often hit on and bone armor really helps negate all the little random hits. I always keep it cast, even if it only absorbs something like 120 damage, which is like.. 1-2 hits from a small monster in hell, or 1 hit from a bigger monster.
     
  6. ceeshond

    ceeshond IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    Good point. i guess i could go block and bone armor.. the dex "loss" isnt to bad.. believe necros dont get alot of life from it anyway. Will just have to find me a decent block shield i guess

    If you feel that 120 absorb works for you, my idea will probebly work pretty well aswell, since it`ll get near 200 absorb atleast. I might decide CE doesnt have to be quite that high, so i could safe me an easy 5-8 skills there, as i doubt the area needs to be much bigger after 10ish hardpoints and +skills
     
  7. dyolf

    dyolf IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    As was already said, it all depends on playing style. However, keep in mind that in hardcore you need several lines of defense, because you want 100% survival. For a summoner, that means for me:
    - stay away from baddies, dont run ahead (take care in nightmare, those fe bosses can 1-shot just about any char)
    - use attract or dim vision to avoid getting targeted in the first place
    - max resists
    - max block
    - high life, including bone armor which is basically +800ish recastable life!
    In short, hc=get all the protection you can get!

    I lost a 77 summoner to nm geleb (1-shotted, see deeds thread), because i got too close to geleb, had 'only' 800ish life and didnt invest in ba synergies enough. Don't know if my rebuilt summoner would survive that hit, and won't try it :p

    Well when i rebuilt, i listened to stinger, maxed bonewall for my bone armor, limited my ce around 10ish, and never seem to be in real danger with my current lvl86 summoner atm. I use attract a lot, especially in wsk, dim vision much less. As a scouting decoy i spam my clay golem ahead of me, when something is in a room i cast attract, then amp, then ce when the first body is there. Short, safe work most of the time.
     
  8. ceeshond

    ceeshond IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    Did you only max 1 synergy ? wouldnt be left with alot of other points if you did both (which i still think is overkill) tho i could you could get pretty far with just skellys and mastery maxed and some point here n there in CE (tho im still wondering how big a part of the screen i can get the radius to. Its very small at lvl 5 =p
     
  9. dyolf

    dyolf IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    yea, i have
    sm max
    skels max
    revives 2
    sr 1

    bonewall max

    i'm not shure if i will sink the remaining points into bone prison or bone spirit. bone spirit is already 400ish now, it benefits from bone wall. quite nice to hammer down that occasional pi.
     
  10. Tai.

    Tai. IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    Hello, I'll be filling in for Stinger in this morning's discussion.

    I personally fall on the Bone armor side of the fence. I prefer:
    Max Skeleton
    Max Mastery
    1 pt revive/mage/resist/golem mastery/clay
    1-5 pts CE if you've got something of a gear start (it's very easy to get +skills and thus a nice sized CE)
    Max Bone Wall
    Max Bone Armor
    Curses
    1 pt Armor

    Basically this is designed to keep a 300 or so life bone armor going at all times just in case. It's what I use when I start an untwinked Necro, as I'd rather cast CE a couple times and have a couple hundred extra pseudo-life. When that group of archers in the pits targets you while you're amped every little bit helps.

    Marth's right though, it's all to taste. Max Block if you have Homo or possibly Trang's, otherwise it's usually not worth it. DV Rocks against ranged attackers and Gloams so is certainly a viable alternative to max. Like Bone Armor it won't help you if it isn't cast so get in the routine of using one of them and use it constantly/well.

    The faster killing route is to max CE and pop a whole room with one cast, it works but I've never been one to spend 19 extra points for speed - though to be honest you could make the case that the extra monsters you hit with CE aren't attacking you.

    Basically it depends on your gear and your situation. If you fear elemental ranged attacks more go DV or possibly Armor, if you fear physical ranged (amp archers) I'd go Armor, but DV works as well. For kill speed CE is the way to go.

    Keep in mind that with Insight Iron Golems you can cast CE or DV all day long, which makes their increased radius (in my opinion at least) slightly less important. Make sure you lose a low damage Insight so he doesn't off himself to IM.

    Cheers
    -Tai
     
  11. ceeshond

    ceeshond IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    Heheh well my necro died so some iffy lag that made me "feel" safe while i was about to die from 10 cows hitting me in the head.. So ill be rebuilding him tomorrow. i guess i might explore bone armor a bit earlyer this time. necro was only just nearing his 40s i think, had maxed skelly and lvl 15 mastery or something just 1 point in armor for.. whatever reason :p

    What i am unsure of now is WHEN to start with armor. should i max skelly and then put a few points into bone prison once in a while ?(or should i just use wall) till its maxed, while not losign to much kill power from low mastery ?
     
  12. dwaasjetuw

    dwaasjetuw IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    you should first get all the skelly skills and 1 point fillers and when you have that done you can start on bonearmor+synergy
     
  13. dyolf

    dyolf IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    Tai. i think you meant max bone wall, max bone prison, bone armor 1 pt, because you gain 15 pts per synergy and only 10 pts for bone armor.
     
  14. ZappaFan

    ZappaFan Hardcore Moderator and America Trade Moderator

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    My Trang's necro just hit ** this morning. I maxed Skelly's, Skelly Mastery, Bone Spirit and Bone Spear. Just a point in pretty much everything else, and have now put a couple of extra points in Golum mastery. Between the Fire Wall that Trang's set gives and maxed Bone Spirit (synergized with maxed Bone Spear), I move through WSK pretty easily. 13 skellies, 7 Mages, and summoning the left-over corpses (usually have 8-12 of those tagging along). The only curse I ever use is Decrep, and CE the hell out of everything. Gloams aren't that big a deal, I charge in first, Decrep them, then retreat and let the army take over, spamming Bone Spirit and Fire wall and they go down pretty quickly. Oh yeah, it also helps that I'm able to give myself lvl 39 BO :)

    EDIT: As I said, just one point in Bone Armor (with + skills I think I get about 150 damage protection?), zero points in Bone Prison or Bone Wall. I also neglected any curse that I didn't need to get Decrep. No lower resist, no dim vision...
     
  15. Tai.

    Tai. IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    You're correct, I listed Bone Armor as both a Max and a 1point wonder, it should be the latter



     
  16. AgentMarth

    AgentMarth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    Max Fire Golem and Teeth!

    Really though, everyone is different like already said. I'm on the one point BA side.

    Reason being, I know that in the end I will get enough +skills to hit 100+ absorb easy enough, so I never see much a need to go all out with it. I really hardly ever get hit with my summoner, and even if I do, that ~100 is enough until my army catches up to engage whatever whacked me. In most cases, if I know something that can get through my army (i.e. archers) are around, I use Attract on one of them in the distance to take any heat off of me.

    My Fishymancers all do the following:

    Max Skel
    Max Skel Mast
    Max Mages (Thats a whole other debate)
    Max CE
    One in all other Summon skills
    One in all Curses

    and is done IIRC at level 89, which is doable enough.

    I never have went for BA on a Summoner, and also always go max Vita (A rare exception for me on HC) and the only times I have lost a Summon are: 1. To a couple of Champ Dolls that desynced right on top of me where I then CE one and popped 3-4 on me (Doubt the extra absorb would have helped). 2. Running ahead of my army in a lag spike like a gun hoe idiot. Both times BA wouldn't have done much, if anything at all.

    Oh and just a note, Golem Mastery for a IG isn't a good idea to me unless you have Enigma. What happens is your Golem falls behind and then poofs on you and then you are screwed outta you Golem. With a big enough army and decent +skills, you don't need to worry about him dieing anyways.
     
  17. prion

    prion IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    also mana golem is completely unnecessary for a summoner

    my trang's overlord is very similar to Marth's but i have fewer points in CE and extra in Dim Vision.

    I use one point BA, and it is enough to block a stray missile or two--then you recast
     
  18. dwaasjetuw

    dwaasjetuw IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    Now i come in and hijack the thread a bit!

    I ve tried to lvl 3 chars now for my infinity (java li sorc and trapper) but i dont like any of them =]

    Now i want to try it out on a summoner, does it really help CE? It seems to me like a bit of overkill. It would be nice to try it with max mages though.

    Anyone with some experience?
     
  19. Tai.

    Tai. IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    Cars and Sara swear by Infinity for their Summoners, something about it allowing mages to put out enough extra damage (as well as helping CE) that it outdoes the damage of other poles.

    Hopefully one of them will post with the specifics, just figured I'd let ya know it's nt that crazy of an idea
     
  20. dwaasjetuw

    dwaasjetuw IncGamers Member

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    Re: Necro and bone armor

    + i think i m going for a necro beast
     

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