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My Vengeance Paladin: Some Questions and some Experiences

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by Usufruct, Mar 25, 2004.

  1. Usufruct

    Usufruct IncGamers Member

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    My Vengeance Paladin: Some Questions and some Experiences

    First, I'd like to say THANKS to Cyrus for making such a great guide for the Avenger Paladin.

    So I have been playing this character (PandasMustDie) for about a week and a half now, and he is at level 46. He's wearing Vamp Gaze, HoZ, Shaft/Guardian Angel, Currently Sigons Boots/Gloves, Manald Heal/Rare Dual Leech w/resists rings, and a Mahim Oak Curio amulet (hehe)

    The first question I have is weapon-wise. I am currently using an ethereal ginther's rift (which is REALLY COOL :)) and I'm having no trouble in act3 NM. In hell, obviously a ginther's rift isn't going to make the grade. I have a barnars star, a lightsabre, a redeemer, and a stormlash. What is the best weapon (for PvM) on an Avenger in hell? Should I get an Azurewrath? I won't be able to use it until after I beat Baal in hell I'm sure.

    The other question I have, is will I be able to do well in Hell? I'm playing through the game with a friend using a Mav's Set Frozen Arrow zon.

    Thanks so much in advance!
     
  2. Loboleal

    Loboleal IncGamers Member

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    The best Avenger weapon has been debated to dead :D. My advice is: Any high damage weapon than can reach 9 frames per attack is a nice Avenger weapon. Stormlash is a very nice option btw.


    I bet yes. That combo is great. Your friend will benefit from your Conviction aura and you will benefit of frozen targets.
     
  3. Schnorres

    Schnorres IncGamers Member

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    you can easily solo in hell if you have enough resists.
    Use the stormlash. Im using a nords tenderizer btw.
     
  4. ventilator

    ventilator IncGamers Member

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    I got a lvl ** Avenger on HCL Europe and I still haven't decided on my end-game weapon. So far I've tried Nord's, Baranar's, Horazon's and The Redeemer and I can't make out too many differences in these, since all got their pros and the damage difference between these weapons is not too noticeable. Currently I stick with The Redeemer for the +skills. If I had the option I'd probably go with a Stormlash though, since the CTC Static would help the Avenger's slightly slow killing speed immensly imo.

    Equipment is:

    Rockstopper
    18res all 6%ML ammu
    Guardian Angel "UM"
    The Redeemer
    EldEldPdiaPdia 45%res all automod Sacred Targe -> swap for KoKoMal 45%res all automod Royal Shield if I find the runes
    IK Belt -> Swap for TGod's or Verdungo's if KoKoMal come along
    IK Gloves -> Swap for... dunno, Dracul's? Soul Drainer? :)
    Sandstorm Treck
    Dwarf Star
    Ravenfrost

    If you plan on tackling hell in a 2 player game, yes, his killing speed will be adequate, however I feel that the Avenger is a very frail char vs strong melee monsters even with 75% block and quite high defense. He just lacks the high life a Druid or Barb can get with ease. Moon Lords will rip him a new one sadly. Elemental attackers are a joke though, my pally has tanked DClone 3 times now only loosing big health to his melee attacks. He has survived FE Lister 8 ppl Hell CE, loosing about half of his 2,7k BO'ed Life then. Gloams only tickle him, Cold he doesn't even notice. 95/95/95/90 res + absorb sure are fun.

    Despite his lacking mass killing power, I am very happy with my Avenger, he's been one of the most fun chars to play with so far and a very party-friendly build :)
     
  5. HandofElysium

    HandofElysium IncGamers Member

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    I personaly like etheral Bstar or Nords. You have Physical damage, Elemental damage, and Attack Rating bonus . Nord edges a little more because it's faster and more damage but both are very good weapons.
     
  6. DeadlyDan

    DeadlyDan IncGamers Member

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    I have a level 84 Avenger. I have used a Cruel Ettin Axe and a B Star. They both did about the same amount of damage. Hoping to make a famine or Crescent Moon runeword weapon eventually, but until then I will try to craft a cruel axe.
     
  7. Usufruct

    Usufruct IncGamers Member

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    Wow, thanks for all your help guys. I did some levelling last night, so now I'm using lightsabre (slightly more damage than eth. ginthers). I'll switch to Barnars Star in a few levels, and then I guess for an endgame weapon I will try to get a nords and try that out, and also try the stormlash and see what works the best.

    Also I think I'll um my Guardian Angel like ventilator did, because my resists in hell are going to be a problem. Perhaps an um in the Gaze might not be a bad idea either.

    Thanks much for all the help!

    edit: Actually I had one more question - How much damage do you guys do with your Avengers? Just so I know what to hope for / expect. Thanks :)
    [/color]
     
  8. Schnorres

    Schnorres IncGamers Member

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    I do about 2.3-3.1k damage with a nords 329ED.
    This is not maxed btw

    Im using shaeled nords on my mf avenger cause I have no extra ias.
     
  9. ventilator

    ventilator IncGamers Member

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    UM'ed GA is an option. UM'ed Gaze is a waste imo. Another option would be dropping the Vamp' Gaze in favor of a helmet with some other desireable mods. Reason for this is the fact that on the one hand you need very little manaleech to get by. As you can see I'm using a grand total of 6% ML on my setup, which is fine. I can use redemption if I ever run out of mana, or just use a potion. OTOH your physical dmg is low, I'd say ~300-400 average at best depending on your strenght, so the effectiveness of lifeleech is extremely limited, especially since you attack very slowly compared to other melee classes. If I assume 15% LL on your setup and 50%DR on Hell monsters this leaves you with 30 life leeched back per hit which just doesn't cut it imo. This is why I dropped the lifeleech altogether and just use redemption and pots.

    This leaves you with the DR on the Gaze as the most important mod. The two other helmets which offer DR and some very important mods, namely FHR and elemental resists are Crown of Ages or it's little sister Rockstopper. CoA is imo the ideal helm for an Avenger (Many other classes/builds as well) with PDR, resists, +1skill, FHR and sockets, but it's quite rare and thus semi-expensive. Rockstopper is cheap and easy to get though. Veil of Steel would be another option for it's huge stats and resists and is somewhere in between CoA and Rockstopper in terms of prices/availability.

    Give this a try if you'd like to, imo the Avenger can not and doesn't need to rely on leech.

    Edit: Damage is 1979-2675 with 286%ED Redeemer and lvl23 Vengeance, 10/10/10 hard points in synergies
     
  10. Fixie

    Fixie IncGamers Member

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    My Clvl 87 uses a 328ED Nords and a Crescent Moon Phase Blade on switch, to get the first 50% hp's of the bosses asap.

    With Nords I love to zeal a bunch of monsters to freeze them, so I can finish them off using Vengeance.
     
  11. wisedoor

    wisedoor IncGamers Member

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    Personally, i value speed. My 1.09 avenger used cruel pb of evis.
    Lightsabre is imho better than Baranars cuz it can reach 8 fpa easy and
    its +min/max damage innate helps a LOT to pump damage over the ED. I´d say a good LS>Baranars for any avenger, and if you get +min/max gear (Bloodfist, Wartravelers, charms) LS definitely OWNS a non eth baranars.
    Baranars can reach 9 fpa just with huge sacrifice of gear (120 ias)
    Phases need 55 ias to reach 8 fpa
     
  12. pesto81

    pesto81 IncGamers Member

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    Lightsabre is good kuz of the ignore defense even if it does less dmg than some of the other stuff. I've been using a Bstar mostly and have been doin between 1300-5300 dmg.... he's vengence with holy shock aura.
     
  13. HandofElysium

    HandofElysium IncGamers Member

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    Actually you need 70 ias. 50 ias is already on BStar
     
  14. Estrella

    Estrella IncGamers Member

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    I use a shaeled stormlash and an azure on switch, and I can tell you, I can walk through hell easily. 24k def helps I guess.

    Lvl 95 hc @ europe.
     
  15. Usufruct

    Usufruct IncGamers Member

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    Nice, I had never seen a CoA. I will definitely try to get my hands on one of those! I did end up putting an Um in my 199% Guardian Angel. I am at level 66 and although my resists are quite poor in Hell, they are 32/23/23/23. However, if I get a 2 socket CoA and I double Um it, I will have good resists. Unfortunately I probably won't until I'm in the middle of Act4, but it definitely will help for act 5. In the meantime, I will try to get a Veil of Steel.

    I started using barnars star instead of lightsabre at level 63, and now I do about 2750 damage. I have 10 in each synergy, and I'm considering abandoning the synergies and pumping holy shield to raise my defense. Do you think this is a good idea?

    Also, I didn't want to spend the points to get to the redemption aura, but I noticed that The Redeemer has +2 Redemption! So when I turn level 72 I will use that on my switch and it will help tremendously I imagine. This character is really fun, I'm playing through the game partied with a Frozen Arrow zon :) Thanks again for all your help.


    So I am going to use Barnars Star until I can snag myself a nords. This shouldn't be an expensive weapon, right?

    Edit: I'm also seriously considering either wearing IK gloves or investing a few more points into strength so I can wear a Hellforge Plate Guardian Angel :) That would be well over 1k def right?
    [/color]
     
  16. ventilator

    ventilator IncGamers Member

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    I think one of the good things about the avenger are his raised max resists from the resistance auras. I'd definitely try to fill these spots by any means. That leaves you with one less thing to worry about.

    I am currently contemplating the same thing. I do not need anymore hard points in the resist auras for more max resists, but I definitely wouldn't mind some more damage. Wouldn't mind some more defense though as well, but the added defense from HS only truly shines when coupled with Defiance (from a merc for example) and Shout from a barb. I generally think around 5 in HS after +skills for the nice bonus to blocking is fine in most situations, but if you got the points to spare, go for more. The 20/10/10/10 build is very cheap in terms of points, and you have to sink them somewhere anyway :)

    Nord's is quite cheap and Hellforge GA 199%ED will have 1259 - 1585 Def. Considering the same thing for my Avenger.
     
  17. Usufruct

    Usufruct IncGamers Member

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    I will have to post my Upgraded 199% Guardian Angel later - I got 158x defense, I forget exactly how much. I put an Um in my Veil of Steel, so my resists are something like 93/93/95/93. I have just over 12000 defense at level 77, and I'm ready to take on Hell Baal (still without finding a nords... hehe). Thanks for all the help with this character, it's been real fun :)
     
  18. gzvernon

    gzvernon IncGamers Member

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    i have a lv 84 Avenger that can take down dclon with ease,with some gear changes, but right now he's a mf avenger
    with these stats & gear

    AvengerElite lv 84

    Weapon: Nords 319% sheal'd
    Helm: Shako w/ptopaz
    Armor:Stone Runeword in Archon plate ( 1935 defense)
    Shield: 4 socket arkane rodache ,174def ,39 res automod with 4 pdiamonds (115% res all)
    Rings:2 nagels
    Ammy:rare ammy w/+2 offensive skills, 16 res all,16 str
    Gloves:38% chance Guards
    Belt:Upgraded Goldwrap (for the pot spaces)
    Boots:44% war travs
    Anni charm 14/13/5
    Gheeds 119/15/25
    30 life/10 mana GC
    32 def/ 27 life LC

    Skills:

    Main skills:(as they are right now )

    Res fire: lv 8 (11 with + skills)
    Res cold: lv 8 (11 with + skills)
    Res Lit: lv 8 (11 with + skills)
    Defiance: lv 15 (18 with + skills)
    Conviction:lv 14 (19 with + skills)
    Vengeance: lv 9 (plan maxing later when def is maxed)(12 with +skills)
    Holy Shield: lv 20 (23 with + skills)

    preqs for all main skills

    have these stats as of right now, with +skills ( ) without skills naked

    Str: 183 (125)
    Dex:151 (135)
    Vit: 282 (240)
    Energy :41 (15)
    Life: 1272 (926)
    Mana: 314 (139)
    Resists: fire, cold lit 79 (20 all)
    With MF gear & HS on 17374 defense ( defiance NOT maxed) over 23000 with mercs defiance arua on
    Damage: 1722-2381 ( with lv 11 Veng)


    Going to try to get ED/IAS jewels for my 5 socket 264% Runemaster & jack up my damage & attack speed

    Tell me what you think of my build for MF avenger, he is in act 4 right now just finished with act 3 (easily getting through with no problems killing)
     
  19. ventilator

    ventilator IncGamers Member

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    Ok, I had to come back to this topic. I haven't been looking at the runewords anymore after the duping spree, but now I did again, looking for more gear to make my Avenger (lvl ** now) even more perfect, after I finally got him his "Sanctuary" (KoKoMal) 45% res all automod Royal Shield (only 58% on the runeword, still 103% res all finally, 415 defense, i quite like it).

    "Beast" (BerTirUmMalLum) in a +3 Vengeance, +3 Conviction +3 Holy Shield Caduceus is my new dream weapon. With the lvl9 Fanaticism this might outdamage every other weapon there is, you hit 8fpa, huge str bonus for that upgraded GA and furthermore CB, OW and PMH mean a dead DClone in the blink of an eye ~~

    "Kingslayer" (MalUmGulFal) in a Cryptic Sword (11fpa) or Phase Blade (9fpa) would be a distant second, with similar CB, OW and PMH stats, yet lacking the Fanaticism aura.

    Kingslayer already outdoes every unique there is in my opinion while Beast is, well, a beast. Problem is that the Caddy might be even harder to find than the Ber which I only dream about currently :)
     

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