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My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by Jednowlosy, May 10, 2008.

  1. Jednowlosy

    Jednowlosy IncGamers Member

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    My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    I've tried something that's quite original imho, well, at least when it comes to certain skills and weapon :rolleyes:

    STATS: Everybody knows. Enough str for gear, enough dex for block.
    Skills:
    sacrifice 20
    Zeal 1
    Holybolt 20
    Blessed hammer 20
    Fanaticism 20
    Holy shield 20
    Resis Light 20
    Cleansing: 1
    Pre reqs: rest. 1 point remaining :prop:

    You most likely said WTF after seeing my build.. but.. You know, it's all about comfort. My build is extremely fast and relies on physical damage. You will see in the item part. It means I kill myself instantly when IMed. And we all know that oblivion knights pop in pairs, trios or groups, surrounded by legions of monsters. Even if you draw the monsters away (OKs don't follow you) to safely butcher them, you still are susceptible to IM when you want to deal with the remaining OKs. Because even if the closest one casts decrepify, the farther one may IM you. Holy bolt+hammer as synergy deals 6k damage (when you cast it on switch - with spirit), enought to kill a champion oblivion in three hits, costs only 4 mana and heals your mercenary. And why healing your merc is important? I'll explain later. Anyways, it guarantees that you will NEVER get killed by iron maiden again. Comfort>power.

    Cleansing is good when you or your merc are under some annoying curses (amp, iron maiden etc.)

    The rest is pretty much usual, afaik, so I won't elaborate.

    ITEMS: (under construction.)

    Helmet: Dream grand crown. Demonhead would be better, same for bone visage, but I dislike their appearance.
    Shield: Dream Sacred Targe [email protected] Pain to get.
    Amu: Highlords.
    Armor: Fortitude, 300% enchanced damage is crazy. CoH may be an option too.
    Gloves: Lay of hands.
    Weapon: I haven't decided yet. Candidate number one: Death eth warspike. Why warspike, you ask? :smiley: Well, it's pretty much the most damaging death weapon that reaches 4fps on fanaticism and +40% external ias. ezerker is too slow. It has great deadly strike, effectively giving you 100% with highlords and gore rider, 50% CB (great when ubering) and many other goodies. I like this weapon. Second possibility: grief. THe highest damage of all 1 handed weapon, better speed (so you can wear different gloves, say, draculs for lifetap), but only 70% deadly strike and absolutely no crushing blow, which leaves you with poor 15% CB from gores. Oh well.
    Ring1: nice dual leech ring with str, dex, life or resis.
    Ring2: Raven
    Belt: Verdungo
    Boots: Gore rider

    MErc: Desert merc, might aura to amplify your physical power, wielding Infinity to power up your dream (and nullify your AR problems!) IN PLAIN NON ETH VOULGE so iron maiden doesn't OHKO him (VERY annoying!!! and since he does nothing else but carrying auras, his main job is not to kill, but to SURVIVE. YOU are the killing machine here :)). Armor: eth upped umed shaftstop, helmet: eth vampgaze. 45% DR to help him survive all the annoying stuff- including reducing damage from IM. He survives a couple of hits when maidened, enough for you to RUN.

    Holy bolt really is useful here - with a poor weapon he doesn't life steal that good, so he's often with 1/2 life after good pounding. A couple of spammed holybolts insta-brings him to full life. :)



    Well, that's pretty much it. WAY faster than classical dreamer, way better in uber killing, way more safe than ordinary zealots, way more comfortable. If you have any tips, give me some :laugh: He can always get better. I also plan to test a build that uses conviction as main aura, and a faith wielding mercenary. LEss damage,more comofrt, no problem with IM killing merc, the great feeling of being able to laugh at uber mephisto's conviction since your conv overrides it - but also hindered attack speed when merc gets lost somewhere, and boy he DOES get lost - way too often - sometimes you have to TP in order to get him back ~~
     
  2. Jednowlosy

    Jednowlosy IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    Sorry for double post, but I simply have to add some info :D

    To clarify things:

    Using the damage calculator, I've figured out that Grief deals 11k-11k damage, while Death Warspike does only 7k-11k, incl. deadly strikes. So Grief is superior.

    Getting grief enables you to get 4fpa without fana, so you can get level 25 conviction instead. That way, you can laugh at uber meph's face, deal additional 2k lightning damage (more if enemies are heavily light-resistant) and further reduce enemies' armor. Plus, you have no merc "lag" - wherever he is, you always have your enemies under the conviction aura. All you lose is ~1k physical damage - if you use pride on your merc.

    Getting pride is a pain, but it gives you - if perf roll - 345% damage, instead of fanaticism's 492%. It's a bit less, but you gain more lightning damage, among other benefits from carrying conviction aura yourself.

    THAT build is really something, it's even faster then the one described above :D Only low crushing blow hurts a bit, but hell, you can't have everything*


    * You can always take guillames' for ubers instead of one of your dream helmets.
     
  3. vknez

    vknez IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    i must laugh at your build about something you never made, and what cant be done at all. why? your skill layout requires 128 skills (character level 117 :laugh:). conviction as main aura requires 131 skills.

    this ''build'' is joke



     
  4. Jednowlosy

    Jednowlosy IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    whoopsie I'm sorry, holy shield is 1, not 20. Simple typo, why do you imply I never tried it lol

    And I wouldn't laugh if I were you.. Cheese zealots/smiters are way slower. Try it and you'll see:D I can send you a test one for SP, try a couple of things, ubers, or just plain old killing. I know no physical build that can kill faster. I've made lots of perfect chars ~~

    It seems you're so lost in cheesy hammer/smiter builds that everything unorthodox seems laughable for you. Well, it's your call man.
     
  5. Arnatkoak

    Arnatkoak IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    I had a big WTF moment looking at the skills. Even after you cleared up the type-o I still had another WTF moment looking at the setup.

    I will give you credit this is a big "outside the box" build. And with the way it is layed out does look pretty fun and not an every day hammerdin/zealot/ect.

    My big question is, how are the resists in Hell? If I"m adding right you're on the low end even with quests added in.

    Over all though good job :thumbsup:
     
  6. vknez

    vknez IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    you are afraid of being killed by IM, and you wasted 40 skills just cause of that, but on the other hand have dual dream which kills monster just with pulses. no sense at all.

    if holy shield is typo your char is finished on level 98, or conviction route never :shocked:. very usefull for PvM

    i m playing lots of unorthodox chars:
    asabear
    wolfbarb
    melesorc (bear)
    bearzon
    melee zon (without D/A/E)
    etc

    sp chars proves me nothing. can be done in editor
     
  7. Jednowlosy

    Jednowlosy IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    Arnatkoak: It's meant to be that way: a WTF build :) of course the resist are perfect in hell. :) They are from 180 to 210% (light is the highest afaik due to highlords, and the passive bonus of resist lightning makes it 90%! Wheee, no more burning souls quickly reducing your hp! :p) with perf gear. So it can be tricky without perfection, but it's ultimately all right.

    vknez:You don't have to max conviction to get the final -150 resis, so you can normally finish your char on level 99, I don't get where you have thought about me not having enough points to finish the char.

    It's like:
    Sacrifice: 20
    Resis Lightning: 20
    zeal: 1
    Holy Bolt: 20
    Bhammer: 20
    Holy shield:1
    Conviction: enough to reach 150% with gear
    Cleansing: 1
    Pre reqs: rest. 0 points remaining at level 99.

    Is it clear now? :)


    Of course the test SP one is editor-made (where would I get 8x pc 45 life on bnet, I'm not THAT rich ;)), but it's fine for testing.

    Especially for you, I created a holy bolt FAQ :)

    Why are you afraid of OKs so much, they are not that scary!

    Believe me, I killed myself COUNTLESS times with iron maiden. Typical situation is when you are trying to kill an OK with a swing after he casts decrepify on you, but you get a IM cast on you the second you took your swing, by another OK standing farther away. I killed myself like 40 times on test chars.. and countless times on Bnet.

    But why do you bother with wasting skills when you can kill them with pulse aura..

    Do you know how slowly the pulse aura kills oblivion knights, even on -150% conviction aura? It takes ages. I have no patience for that, and when you're waiting for them to get killed by pulse aura, they will most likely cast IM on your merc. Fun. Not to mention killing those super oblivion knights on Uber Izual level with your 450 average damage aura such a PAIN. While with 6k dam holybolt, I kill them in 1 sec, without anyone getting IMed at all. I can also heal my merc (which is good tbh, he often ends with 10% life after a serious fight, I don't have to waste time wating for him to heal, since a couple of bolts heals him extremely fast), destroy dangerous undead from distance (lets say dolls with fanaticism while I'm on amp damage, happens often at WSK throne room, if those guys explode and I fail my blockcheck I will die from 1-2 of them, holy bolt makes killing them comfortable, away from them). So it's not a one trick pony. It's still largely worthless, but I love the comfort it provides.

    Come on man, it's not worth 40 points!

    But I have 40 free points anyway. Where should I put them? All the other skills are marginal. If I maxed holy shield like most poeple, I'd get nearly nothing in return. I have level 15 HS due to skillers & item bonuses. It's fine. Maxing it will give me more defense, but I have 10 k already, and the difference between 10 and 20 k is nearly non existant, like from 8% to 6%. You criticize wasting skill points for irrevelant things like holy bolt, but you approve wasting things on getting -2% chance to be hit? Including 75% block, the actual difference is 0,5%. Ridiculous. Yeah, unique monsters and such have a higher AR, but you kill EVERYTHING in this game with 1-2 swings, and bosses like hell diablo within 2 seconds, so who cares. Ubers are sissies with smite and lifetap anyway, so again, who cares for extra 0,5% protection.

    Oh wait , HS gives block chance too... well, the difference between level 15 and 35 is marginal. It's worth like 5 points of dex, maybe even 10. I can live with 5 vita less. What's the benefit of having 50 life more if you killed yourself due to IM for the millionth time? Imho maxing HS is a waste of time.

    What's else to max, zeal? Yea yea +114% damage. Not a bad thing, but it's just another 800 melee damage. I already kill stuff with 1-2 swings, incl. champions and bosses. I will never even notice the extra 800 damage. AR is irrevelant. Grief has "ignore target's defence", conviction aura takes care of the bosses (-92% def ~~) and against ubers, you use smite anyway. So maxing zeal is another WASTE.

    See? I have pretty much 40 free points that have little impact on my game, if I put them in HS and zeal, the "reasonable" way, I won't even notice it, since the bonuses will be tiny. So I use them to fix my oblivion knightmare instead. While it seems stupid, it really WORKS. :) No more IM deaths ,yeah!


    Hope that made some things clear to you now man, cheers. If you played zealot of any kind, you'd understand how ANNOYING iron maiden is. People carry extra weapons, throw gimmershreads etc. in order not to get IMed. You call it a "joke" too? Think about how problematic is to take off your weapon (assuming you have CTA on switch), but it into the box, equip gimmershread, hit the necessary hotkey for throwing, then repeat the process after OK is dead. Besides, that method is painfully slow. And I'm a power gamer. I want the perfect solution. So far this one seems the best, no matter how stupid it sounds.

    Of course there is always an alternative, less "newby" route: fist of heavens. But it's not much stronger, has a big cooldown and costs a lot of mana, something which can be a problem around those storm riders or whatever they are called, always present in chaos sanctuary. D'uh.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2008
  8. UberB

    UberB IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    It seems that everyone likes to complain about IM, especially the ones in Uber Izual place. But I find it laughable. You don't have to kill any OK's. Simply run across the Furnace of Paine, and when you see Izual, retreat out of OK range (you'll know when they stop firing or cursing) and smite away. Easy as pie.
     
  9. Jednowlosy

    Jednowlosy IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    This is not a runner. This is a pure "lets enjoy the game by killing everything on sight" character. Therefore I want to clear the uber izual's level, not just find izzie and smite his head away. I have a perfect hammerdin for that ;)
     
  10. vknez

    vknez IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    pulse aura kills them in few seconds, not ages, i have dreamer, dream sorc, tesladin so its not ages for sure. if you are afraid of being killed by IM play berserker or shaper...
     
  11. prion

    prion IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    i like it.

    Personally i would go for FoH, the lightning damage will be meh (but possibly useful) but the holy bolt spam will be about half your normal hb damage hitting several targets with one shot....would speed things up no?

    oh alright mostly I would use FoH for style points...and to bring back the HOBL!!
     
  12. Jednowlosy

    Jednowlosy IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    I find FoH quite annoying: OKs are always present in sanctuary, where the mana-burning creatures are also always present. When trying to snipe oblivions, you are susceptible to their manaburn, which quickly depletes your mana, so you can't FoH anymore. It's not a bad route and definitively looking more stylish, but less comfortable imho. Holy bolt is 4 mana 6k damage spell that insta-pwns most of the undead caster/shooters in this game in 1-2 hits. I find it cool :D Diablo 1 style!

    vknez: I agree on sorc, but her damage bonus is a lot higher. Classic dreamer definitively doesn't kill them in a few seconds. I can count it with a timer in my hand if you wish :prop: It takes too long for me, can't help it. And there is too much risk of IM on your merc in that time, which can't survive a couple of hits when IMed even with normal weapon in his hands and 50% DR (he becomes "immune" to IM without any weapon, though. That's why I always take his weapon away when playing in places like CS with my hammerdin)
     
  13. koeraokse

    koeraokse IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    And you are using Zeal as main attack? If so then I think that getting killed by IM is still very easy, when u play for fun then its not fun imo just to be alert all the time. When I played my zealot in pvm I rarely died on IM, when they cast it on me I just run close to them oblivion knight, then they already cast smth else and I would kill them, maybe I used smite for that, dont remember.

    Also it seems that your build lacks of ar..
     
  14. Jednowlosy

    Jednowlosy IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    who needs it with -92% def from conviction

    I never miss and you can smite bosses if you wish (zealing them is still 4 times faster even with grief, excluding ubers)
     
  15. koeraokse

    koeraokse IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    zealing who? the oblivion knights? I mean only those who cast, not others, I usually kill them first and when they cast IM on you just run around 2 sec and u will have new curse on u, better waste 2 sec than 40 points imo.

    (Its just what I think, but yes I know this is your build, just stated my opinion)



     
  16. Jednowlosy

    Jednowlosy IncGamers Member

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    Re: My unorthodox dreamer, please rate! :)

    Every opinion matters :)

    zealing bosses, of course. Smiting bosses even with grief is slower than zealing bosses with "lacking" AR ;)

    When it comes to wasting points, I can't find a better alternative anyway, yes you can put them to blessed aim for that passive bonus etc. but it doesn't matter much with ITD and conviction, maxing zeal offers a tiny bonus to damage which I personally find irrevelant and more irrevelant AR, and holy shield offers more def (but with diminishing effects of AR it gives in fact a tiny bonus that is hard to notice when it comes to survivability), less dex needed (but again diminishing effects result in like 2% more chance to block, not worth 19 points..), and higher smite damage (which you won't even notice with grief).. But I find the difference between 1 point and maxed with those skills not worth the 40 points.

    Besides, holy bolt is stylish and original :prop:
     

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