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My new sorc idea...The Cactus Sorc.

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by jason166, Feb 27, 2004.

  1. jason166

    jason166 IncGamers Member

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    My new sorc idea...The Cactus Sorc.

    This concept is based around the idea of a strong defense,
    a basic attack, and massive damage reduction.

    As Much Damage reduced by as possible...
    As Much Magic Damage reduced by as possible...
    50% DMG reduction
    75% Resists
    Around 8k defense
    70% Block
    1 pt in Eshield ~ 70% with + skills
    20 pts in Telekinisis
    20 pts into Frozen Armor
    20 pts into Shiver Armor ~ +300% Enhanced Defense, 600 cold damage per swing. (a hit isn't nessisary)
    20 pts into Frozen Orb
    Rest into Cold Mastery


    Using...
    Storm Shield sockted w/ p diamond
    Nightwing Viel socketed with Sol rune or +15% resist jewel
    Gladiator's bane socketed with Sol rune or +15% resist jewel
    String of Ears for 15% Dmg reduc and -15 Magic dmg
    Occy socketed with cold facet or 15% resist jewel.
    2 sojs.
    Either the duped Fletch amulet
    or a very nice Magic Amulet of Life Everlasting (Damage reduced by 24)
    Ideal Amulet would be a +3 cold skill of life everlasting.
    SandStorm Trek boots or possibly Tears if you need the resists
    A collection of cold skillers.
    Call to Arms for doubling my mana and life pools.
    Weapon Switch would have a wand of lower resists to increase dmg even more on those stacked cold resist chars.

    Would it be a good idea to use Bramble instead of Gladiator's bane?

    My main goal is to be able to sit there and have melee palys zeal away at me only to hit me once every 20 trys and to take 100 cold dmg (after pvp penalty) every time they atempt to hit me... so that would be 2000k cold dmg from me doing nothing. On top of that I could be tossing out frozen orbs that may just finish off the job.

    It would certainly have some barbs, melee palys, melee druids and melee assasins scratching their heads wouldn't it?

    Obviously most of the godly dueling classes such as wind druids or hammerdins would own me but seriously, who don't they own. Sure I could make one of those charracters but I prefere to make charracters that are original.

    This build would also be very survivable in hell. For Example
    I get hit by a 3000k Fire attack. Factor in 70% Eshield = 900 dmg to life, 1575 dmg to Mana (TK synergy), Factor in 75% resists .25*1575 = 393 damage, Factor in Magic Damage Reduced by 35
    (15 from String, 20 from Gladbane) 35 / .05 = -700 dmg.

    You would take no damage as long as your eshield is up and after it is down you would take 50 damage per hit.

    Now if I wore glad bane with a sol, and my helm with a sol and my -24 reduced ammy I would have 27+7+24 = 58 Physical Damage reduced by.
    which would yield 58/.05 = -1160 damage in pvm situations so with 50% dmg reduction + damage reduced by 58 I could take a hit for 2320 Physical dmg and take no damage to life and this is without eshield on.

    With Eshield and 2k of mana I would estimate i could take a physical hit for
    around 6k of damage from a monster and take no damage to life.

    What do you think folks?
     
  2. somewhatdamaged99

    somewhatdamaged99 IncGamers Member

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    I am not 100% sure mate, but i think you are misinterpreting the 'magic damage reduce by %%'

    I would be glad for someone like Hal to have a look at this

    somewhatdamaged

    393 damage -35 = 358 not -700
     
  3. jason166

    jason166 IncGamers Member

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    hmm

    I am not assuming that it is 35% I am assuming though that in player vs monster you use the formula of damage reduced by X / .05 to get the actual number of damage taken away in the end game...

    Does someone want to confirm or deny this who is sure?
     
  4. somewhatdamaged99

    somewhatdamaged99 IncGamers Member

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    Ahh i see what you are saying, but i am sure that you are wrong :scratch:


    Anyway, good luck with the build mate :uhhuh:
     
  5. somewhatdamaged99

    somewhatdamaged99 IncGamers Member

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    Hi,

    I have looked into this and you are definitely wrong about your calculations. Damage reduced by (for example) 25 means exactly that.

    i will use your example :-


    "This build would also be very survivable in hell. For Example
    I get hit by a 3000k Fire attack. Factor in 70% Eshield = 900 dmg to life, 1575 dmg to Mana (TK synergy), Factor in 75% resists .25*1575 = 393 damage, Factor in Magic Damage Reduced by 35
    (15 from String, 20 from Gladbane) 35 / .05 = -700 dmg.


    Magic damage reduced by has no modifier. What you see is what you get, i.e damage reduced by 35, you get ONLY 35 off whatever magic damage hits you - In other words it is totally useless


    Now if I wore glad bane with a sol, and my helm with a sol and my -24 reduced ammy I would have 27+7+24 = 58 Physical Damage reduced by.
    which would yield 58/.05 = -1160 damage in pvm situations so with 50% dmg reduction + damage reduced by 58 I could take a hit for 2320 Physical dmg and take no damage to life and this is without eshield on"



    Not sure where you got this from "58/.05 = -1160 damage " but it is not at all true.

    The correct (and rather useless) result is in fact : Only 58 hitpoints of damage reduced.

    As i say, i would be glad to be wrong, as i always considered damage reduced by, and magic damage reduced by, to be totally useless unless reduced by an actual stated percentage

    i.e. Monster hits for 1000 damage.

    Player A wears nothing but shaftstop armour (30% damage reduce)
    He would take 1000 / 100 = 10 * 30 = 300. Total damage to player 700

    Player B wears Gladiators Bane (dmg reduced by 20). He would take 1000 - 20. Total damage taken 980.

    hope this helps (i am confusing myself now lol)

    Somewhatdamaged
     
  6. jason166

    jason166 IncGamers Member

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    I see where I got it wrong

    I was using a formula from this discussion:
    http://forums.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=142368&page=1&pp=25


    I misunderstood what I read...


    Damage reduced by 25/.05 = the dmg to life when using a 95% Energy Shield.


    So nix that I said about the pvm stuff.... It will still be highly effective in pvp I think.

    Lets see....

    10000 Damage Physical Attack
    10000/6 For PVP penalty = 1666
    ~70% Absorbed by Eshield, so 874 Dmg to Mana (After TK Synergy)
    500 Damage to life* .5 (50% dmg reduction) = 250 Dmg.
    Now factor in Damage reduced by 58 and you take 192 Dmg...

    In this case we have added the equivalent of 62% Damage reduction instead of 50%.

    Now most people's melee attack is probably closer to 5k Max so lets look at that example

    5000 Damage Physical Attack
    5000/6 = 833 Damage.
    ~70% Absorbed by Eshield, so 437.5 Dmg to Mana (After TK synergy)
    250 Damage to life * .5 (50% dmg reduction) = 125 Damage.
    Now Factor in Damage reduced by 58 and you take 67 Damage.

    In this case we have the equivalent of 74% Damage reduction instead of 50%. This seems like a big deal to me.

    I am assuming I will have 2.5k of mana hopefully after Battle orders from call to arms... and probably level 20 warmth... 2500/437.5 ~ 6 Consecutive Hits... plus 1 probably from mana regeneration... So I could take 7 hits... 7*67 = 469 Damage to Life over this time. Now Factoring in what I have noticed from zealing pallys and WWing barbs... I only get hit every once every 5-10 swings (depending on their Attack rating) when I have high defense and max block. If they take 10 swings at me and I have a 600 dmg shiver armor and cold mastery they areprobably going to take about 100 dmg per swing after the pvp penalty.

    So if I stood there and let an average paly zeal away at me, in the time that he is able to deal 469 dmg to me from 6 consecutive hits I will have dealt 6000 damage to him from my shiver armor! Now if he has 20% absorb from a raven frost then that would reduce it to 3600 damage but that still seems like enough dmg that I will be able to stand there and let ppl swing at me and win.


    Anyone wanna comment?
    Jason
     
  7. CronicTKY

    CronicTKY IncGamers Member

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    This may seem irrelevent to the actual build itself, but when I think of cactus, I think of 'thorns.' You know, those spikey, prickily thingies? Anyway, wouldn't getting %Dmg returned to attacker be more like the build? Or maybe having a Thorn Pally friend who will tag along with you. Just an idea, but thought I'd throw that in.
     
  8. happyface95

    happyface95 IncGamers Member

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    100 cold damage is equal to... 18 cold damage each hit. Assuming 75% cold resist, even less if we see a raven frost. Now, a pally that fast switches his conv so it stays on you for half a second just enough to get the first hit on you to get you into stun/block lock zealing you will probably kill you before.
     
  9. Boogie

    Boogie IncGamers Member

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    Problem is damage reduced by and magic damage reduced by is calculated before resists.
     
  10. jeeb123

    jeeb123 IncGamers Member

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    now all these calculations and stuff is confusing me... :scratch:
     
  11. jason166

    jason166 IncGamers Member

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    Hmph

    Before resists? I thought it was after resists!!! I am pretty sure it is after resists... Anyways... I doubt many people will have 75% resist after cold mastery takes effect.... infact they may have negative resistances so I think the cold armor dmg of about 600 will be very sufficient. I currently have a melee sorc that uses a 120 dmg cold armor and even that can finish off zealing palys sometimes.


    Would someone with some definite knowledge like to chime in?
     
  12. wy4251

    wy4251 IncGamers Member

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    I thought I included this in my guide.. anyway.. let me do it again and help you improve this build.

    First the calculation.
    Assuming a player hit you with a 6k physical attack
    after pvp penalty = 6000 x 1/6 = 1000.

    If you have 70% ES on.
    300 goes to life, 700 goes to mana
    with maxed Telek, mana lost = 700 x 0.75 = 525

    If you have 50 damage reduction and 50% PDR, life lose is
    (300 - 50 ) x 50% = 125
    For each hit you take, 50 points reduction saves you 25 life (because of 50% PDR)

    Assuming you have 1800 life 3000 mana after bo, mana will probably run out in 7~9 successful hits. Namely, you will run out of mana first. After the mana runs out, you will get killed in 2 hits. With all the life you saved with 50 damage reduction (50x 7~9 = 350~500), you might be able to take 1 more hit. If you think that's worth it.. go for it. I am pretty sure you will be better off with something else though.



    Now, let's improve your build.

    Firstly, we know that pvp elemental attacks usually will drain your mana pool. Not because ES absorbs physical damage better, but that elemental damage is usually higher than physical.
    (Example: 3000 mana pool absorbs 3000/0.75 x 4(pvp penlaty) = 16000 elemental attack damage= 1 fire ball).
    So let's focus on dueling melee characters. (physical damage dueler excluding wind druid).

    Secondly, knowing that Shiver Armor is a prebuffable skill. You should use prebuff gear for this build. Thus, aim to have lvl shiver armor with +95% cold damage. It raise the damage dramatically

    Thirdly, since you want to make build original, consider maxing Chilling armor. It's the synergy to shiver armor (hence + damage). Also, you can use it against Zons.. some missle weapon classes. If you max all 3 armors, it's possible to get a 1950 shiver armor and 1250 chilling armor.

    Fourth, with high lvl cold mastery, it's ok to assume opponent has cold resis 50% or lower. Now let's calculate shiver armor damage. 1950 /4 (pvp penalty) x 50% is around 245 damage per hit.
    IF they have a raven frost, 245x 0.6 = 147.

    Fifth, an attacker with 6 k damage drains your mana in about 7~9 hits, another 2 to kill you. SO let's say 9~11 successful hits kills you.
    Now, with high level shiver armor, an ethreal Glad Bane + SS alone wouldl give you 10k+ defense. Let's use 10k for easier calculation.
    Assuming the attacker has 10k AR, and the character lvl is same as u. The chance to pass the def is about 50%. After block applies, 50% x 25% = 12.5% that attack will hit.

    IN avg, to land 9 successful hits it takes about 9 / 12.5% = 72.

    If each hit they attempt takes away 245 damage. They would need 72x 245 life = 17640. If they use raven frost and take only 147 per swing, they need 72 x 147 = 10584. Well , that is if you stand still and let them hit you.


    Lastly, even if you decide not to attack, you can walk around and let them chase you. For that mana will regenerate ... it will make you last a bit longer.

    hope this helps...
     
  13. jason166

    jason166 IncGamers Member

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    Thanks!

    Thanks for the info!
     
  14. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    You can prebuff your ES with different equipment than your Prebuff on Cold Armor both will last a really long time.

    I like this build a lot. I love the name Cactus. I know you aren't using Thorns, nor should you. But getting the highest defence possible would be great.

    Here's an idea turn into a bear for the added defense.
     
  15. Boogie

    Boogie IncGamers Member

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    hmm are you sure damaged reduced by x is calculated that way wy4251 ?
     

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