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My idea for a non mana Wiz system

Discussion in 'Wizard' started by theeliminator, Aug 25, 2009.

  1. theeliminator

    theeliminator Well-Known Member

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    My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    Only thing I can think of is Spell weaving. Where the wiz needs to build up her weave to cast higher tier spells. Once the Wizard has brought the weave to its max she can continue casting at a risk to her life or she can stop the weave and start a new one.

    Ex. The Wizard at first can only a cast tier one spell, after casting the tier one spell she can cast a tier 2 spell, then after that a tier 3 so on and so forth till she gets to the highest tier she can cast.

    After she casts the highest tier spell she can either:

    A: keep casting spells at a risk (say losing life or other nasty things). Each time she casts when the weave is at max there can be a bonus to damage.

    B: Stop the weave (aka flush the meter) and start from the beginning. When the weave is stoped there can be effect like an AOE blast or something

    This system will allow the Wizard to never physically attack anything unless she wants to. This system will also reinforce the “always keep attacking” idea for D3.
     
  2. Telzen

    Telzen IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    That won't work for this kind of game. You are only going to pick and then focus on a few spells to use in the game. And you need them available at all times.
     
  3. theeliminator

    theeliminator Well-Known Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    If accessibility is a problem I can easily change it so you don't have to cast the spells in ascending order, I could just say the Wizard has a circular bar that has runes, every time the wiz casts a spell a rune is filled. Every rune increases the chance that the Wiz will take damage from her own spell, But every rune will also increase the next spells damage and crt chance.

    Maybe something that looks like this.
    [​IMG]


     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
  4. Lazzie

    Lazzie IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    They could go the Sacred route, and instead of having a traditional mana system give all spells significant cooldowns. Additional spell levels and passive bonuses could reduce cooldown times, and a Warmth-like mana-replenishing passive could further reduce cooldown times.

    I dunno how many of you have played Sacred into the Silver/Gold/Platinum levels, but for just about every Sacred class the big skill struggle is maintaining high damage and effectiveness with low cooldown on every spell, using socketed runes. Using this approach, the D3 Wizard could focus on a minimum of 3-4 spells, and cast them during the cooldowns of others. Blizzard has a 5-second cooldown? Cast other spells while Blizzard warms back up.

    I think that it's a possibility, if Blizzard really isn't giving the Wizard traditional mana. It would force players to go for more skill variety and nearly eliminate spell-spamming gameplay.
     
  5. theeliminator

    theeliminator Well-Known Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    I agree that if they take mana out and use this system, cooldowns would trully be the only way to stop spamming.


     
  6. Rash

    Rash IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    Here is another way for a wizard without mana: Put on a Sowrd and shield and attack! :highfive:


    Ok seriously, at the moment i am not sure what i would say about the fact that every class has another system. I love mana.
    Will be very interested in what they come up with and the balancing.
     
  7. Runestar

    Runestar IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    I think mana in some form will still be in the game, just that it may be accumulated/refreshed in a different manner.

    For instance, the barb's fury is mechanically similar to mana, just that you must attack to build it up to "cast" your more powerful attacks.
     
  8. SEANBCOOL

    SEANBCOOL IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    I'm completely opposed to the idea of giving the Wizard anything other than mana. If she doesn't use mana, who would?
     
  9. konfeta

    konfeta IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    Witch Doctor...
     
  10. Jedouard

    Jedouard IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    There is a much more rewarding way to stop spamming than cool-downs or severe resource restrictions: just make it ineffective in terms of killing. It is a lot more fun to see your strategy pay off by killing a room full of monsters than it is to see it pay off because you managed to work within the confines of cooldowns or limited resources.

    I think a good system resource system should reward players for being more efficient, but not force this play style upon them. This is precisely what Fury does. Spammers ought to be free to spam average skills so long as they can survive, but the damage-to-monster ratio ought to limit this possibility increasingly as the game goes and minor limitations ought to limit the spamming of the most damaging, highest costing spells.

    Here is a forum I started for people to post their ideas on different resource systems: http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=738165. Have a look and post your ideas or criticisms.


     
  11. theeliminator

    theeliminator Well-Known Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    First off, every spell/skill in D3 will have some kind of cooldown, even if its just a fraction of a sec. So cooldowns are not that bad.

    Limited resources, aka mana, has been in almost every RPG as a way control spamming of skills.

    Both the system you suport and your own have a Limited resource system.

    been there done that.


     
  12. Grumpy Old Wizard

    Grumpy Old Wizard IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    If you limit resources too much Diablo becomes something other than Diablo. Diablo is about fast paced action.

    If they force the player to constantly switch betwen 4 or 5 differnt spells I don't think players are going to like the results. Keeping track of 4 or 5 differnt timers won't be fun. Not to mention that it will probably be hard to have that many spells that remain effective throughout the game and some spells will be ineffective due to immunities/resistances.

    It would be nice to know what sort of system they are planning.
     
  13. Lazzie

    Lazzie IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    I don't think watching/managing 4 or 5 different skills is that hard at all. I mean, a D2 tanking barb keeps up Shout, BO, and BC while switching between Concentrate and maybe also Berserk and War Cry, right? They're one of the easiest builds to play as, IMO.

    I think that character building and design are the most entertaining part of Diablo 2, more so than the dungeon crawling and item finding. Builds that focus on one or two skills (I'm looking at you, endgame Sorceress) may be the most powerful, but lack variety and eventually are just stale MF machines. I like what Blizzard's doing in their attempt to increase the number of skills used by a given build while using passives to keep early skills useful in the endgame.

    But yeah, back to cooldowns. I mentioned in the previous page that it's the system that Sacred uses. I think it could work in Diablo 2, but honestly I probably prefer a more traditional mana system to the Sacred cooldown management. I want to see what Blizzard comes up before I prognosticate too much or whine too hard.
     
  14. Grumpy Old Wizard

    Grumpy Old Wizard IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    True but Shout, BO, and BC all have long lasting effects. And if you do some investing (which is definately wise for a beserker) Warcry has a good duration. Mostly the beserker will just have to worry about warcry and beserk. Perhaps taunt to shut down souls/archers and concentrate if he needs to leech mana. A trapper uses a lot of skills but most of those are utility skills rather than skills to kill with. My concern is too much cooldown on skills you need to kill with.

    I like Sacred 2 also but I prefer the mana system to cooldowns. We'll have to see what the alternate resource will be for the wizard since only the WD has mana now.
     
  15. WizardFan

    WizardFan IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    Hmmm perhaps, but preventing the wizard from spamming certain spells would actually kinda take away from the gameplay. We all know we love to spam fireballs, novas, and chain lightnings in DII, and that was just hella fun.

    Besides, one would have to spend their limited skill points on a larger number of skills in order to have enough offensive spells to be able to cast one different spell after another (well, perhaps this even isn't true, but it's a potential problem this system could eventually face if it was implemented). This would also mean less possible spell combinations in a single character spec.

    It would kinda take away something from the gameplay. Of course I'm not saying that this wouldn't appeal to some players, because it would, but for those to whom it wouldn't appeal, there should be a choice. After all, being able to customize your character any way you want was a large part of DII, and DIII should be similar in this regard.


     
  16. Chaosmage

    Chaosmage IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    Preventing always spamming a certain spell and still allowing the wizard continuous casting could be allowed:

    Each skilltree uses its own resource. They are all are arranged in a regular triangle.
    At first there is a dot in the center of the triangle. Each time a spell is cast the dot moves closer to the accordant corner. Once the dot reaches the edge the wizard have to wait till the dot centers again (maybe some other penalty like unable to move :crazyeyes:). Or just use skills from all three trees, balancing the dot to prevent that from happening.:jig:

    This way you could still use your favorite skill most of the time along with two high demand support skills.
     
  17. Runestar

    Runestar IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    Either that or they make the spells so weak that you have to spam your spells until your fingers bleed just to be able to kill effectively...
     
  18. Jerich

    Jerich IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    I would assume they would do something like this...

    Use mana in reverse... As the wizard casts spells her disruption bar slowly fills. If she stops casting it goes away. There is a pro and con for having a high disruption level.

    Pro
    You do extra damage to the monsters. At a full bar you can one shot almost any non-end boss.

    Con
    Your defenses are lowered. At a full bar you will be one-shot by almost everything.

    This would turn her into the glass cannon the devs talked about earlier.

    - Jerich

    As for Monk, he could have a bar that decreases when he is near enemies and increases when he is away from enemies. The bar boosts damage. This would turn him into the hit and run character the devs envision.

    For the unannounced ranged class, she could have to do a reload ammunition ability that gives her a set number of shots of a specific type. This fills her bar and should be enough to kill almost everything if used right. It would require the type of planning that this type of character should use.

    Now all of the classes have their own system.=P

    Edit: Now that I reread the OP I realized that their idea is similar to mine.=P I think this one is less complicated however, and would work better. You don't want to force someone to cast low level spells just so they can cast their high level ones later.
     
  19. Grumpy Old Wizard

    Grumpy Old Wizard IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system

    I have an idea. Instead of making the wizard essentially a machine gun that can overheat make the final class a technology class that uses machine guns. You can give that class the overheating "perk" and make the gun jam or even explode if he actually uses it to kill stuff too much.

    Having a wizard that has to stop using spells and retreat until the "spell colldown bar" is green just sucks. Much better to put that "perk" on a technology character.

    Oh, and let's make the barbarian's weapon explode if he swings it too many times without a 30 second pause.

    And the witch doctor's zombie dogs will refuse to come out to play if he tries to summon them too many times within a two minute timeframe.

    In fact, why not have a timer that automatically teleports all players back to town every two minutes and puts them in bed unable to move for five minutes.
     
  20. Jerich

    Jerich IncGamers Member

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    Re: My idea for a non mana Wiz system


    Guns don't do more damage as you overheat them. Nothing to keep you from being at full charge the entire time... if you are careful, you should be ok.

    - Jerich


     

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