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My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged BAs

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Greebo, Sep 7, 2010.

  1. Greebo

    Greebo IncGamers Member

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    My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged BAs

    Well, I finally gave in and started running the darn council. This character is just ridiculous. Baal runs at /p8 with ease comparable to pure lightning Sorceress.

    Let me use this opportunity to show off the beautiful weapons of mine:
    Code:
    Grief
    Berserker Axe
    'EthTirLoMalRal'
    One-Hand Damage: 36 to 159
    Required Dexterity: 49
    Required Strength: 128
    Required Level: 64
    Axe Class - Very Fast Attack Speed
    Indestructible
    Item Version: Expansion
    Item Level: 99
    Fingerprint: 0x1d845ed4
    Adds 5-30 fire damage
    +15 Life after each Kill
    38% Increased Attack Speed
    Adds +364 Damage
    Ignore Target Defense
    -25% Target Defense
    Prevent Monster Heal
    +2 to Mana After Each Kill
    20% Deadly Strike
    35% Chance to cast Level 15 Venom on striking
    163% Damage to Demons (Based on Character Level)
    -23% to Enemy Poison Resistance
    Ethereal (Cannot be Repaired), Socketed (5: 5 used)
    
    Beast
    Berserker Axe
    'BerTirUmMalLum'
    One-Hand Damage: 133 to 445
    Required Dexterity: 49
    Required Strength: 128
    Required Level: 64
    Axe Class - Very Fast Attack Speed
    Indestructible
    Item Version: Expansion
    Item Level: 99
    Fingerprint: 0x54e8f681
    +34 to Strength
    +10 to Energy
    +270% Enhanced Damage
    40% Increased Attack Speed
    +3 to Lycanthropy
    +3 to Werebear
    Prevent Monster Heal
    25% Chance of Open Wounds
    20% Chance of Crushing Blow
    +2 to Mana After Each Kill
    Level 9 Fanaticism Aura When Equipped
    Level 13 Summon Grizzly (5/5 Charges)
    Ethereal (Cannot be Repaired), Socketed (5: 5 used)
    
    This is the first character that actually got to use these, even though I made them 2-3 months ago and I had thought back then that I'd be using them all the time and make like a bajillion of teddy-bear-builds.

    The name: I didn't feel like making something smart up.

    OwnsTheCouncil, Level 87 Barbarian

    Code:
    Str 136/200 
    Dex 134/154
    Vit 250/260
    Ene  10/ 20
    
    Life 3,035
    Mana   241
    (after Battle Orders)
    
    Resistances: 75/58/80/74
    
    LCS highlights:
    'Beast' hand:
        1,942 - 6,168 (avg. 4,055 ;  5,270 including CS/DS)
      against demons
        2,460 - 7,813 (avg. 5,136 ;  6,676 including CS/DS)
    'Grief' hand:
        5,450 - 7,221 (avg. 6,335 ;  9,114 including CS/DS)
      against demons
        7,579 -10,033 (avg. 8,806 ; 12,672 including CS/DS)
    [all of the above exclude Venom since it very rarely triggers on WW]
    
    WW at highest possible speed, AR = 9,949 (83% CtH Council Member)
      -------
      17% Life Leech
      11% Mana Leech
      -------
      Defense 11,4k
      FHR 52% [5 frames @ 48%]
    
    Skills:
    WW 20 [27], Berserk 1 [8]
    Axe Mastery 20 [25] (+ 1-pt wonders)
    Battle Orders, Find Item 20 [31] (+ 1-pt Shout & Battle Command)

    Gear:
    Weapons: 'Beast'/'Grief' ATMA-bugged BAs
    Switch: 2x Echoing blue sticks (I have resisted idea of double 'HotO' for now)
    -----
    Helm: Arreat's Face (6% LL, 'Um')
    Armor: 'Fortitude' AP
    Belt: String of Ears (7% LL, 15% PDR, 14 MDR)
    Gloves: Laying of Hands
    Boots: War Traveler (50% MF)
    -----
    Amulet: Rare (+2 Barb Skills, 10% FCR, 25 Teleport Charges)
    Ring 1: Rare (4% LL, 5% ML, 78 AR, 9% LightRes)
    Ring 2: Rare (6% ML, 118 AR, 15 Life, 15% LightRes, 16% PoisonRes)
    I just love how rare jewelry beats anything else here.
    -----
    Charms:
    GC's: Gheeds (40/140), 2x AR/Life (117/38,118/28), 2x AR/FHR (124,116), 1x AR/Gold (106/35)
    LC's: 76AR/8FHR
    SC's: 6x AR (32/15Life, 31/7MF, 4x plain (36,36,33,33) )
    Total: 858 AR, 32% FHR, 81 Life, 47% MF, 175% GF
    Free space: 2x2 + 1x2

    Moron:
    Act 2 NM 'Might'
    eth Reapers w/ Ruby Jewel of Fervor (thanks to Pyro for trading this)
    Guardian Angel 'Um'
    Kira's Guardian (70% ResAll, 15% IAS jewel)

    Comments on gear:
    A problem with WW is that it's really nice NOT to have CBF (the only skill in the game, I think). That means one cannot count on Ravenfrosts, and the AR bonuses from Mastery and WW are decent, but not awesome.

    It's hard work to get to 10k AR, and my collection of charms and rings is pretty awesome, I think. I actually started dumping points into Dex rather than Strenght. What's the point of having high damage with low AR? I think I'm going to respec to ~2.5k life and much higher Dexterity.

    Other than that, after doing the math, I'm shocked to see how much better 'Grief' is in comparison to 'Beast' in this set-up. Of course 'Beast' helps Moron hit faster, thus trigger Decrep faster. But still, I think double 'Grief' barb would be more powerful.

    In case someone doesn't know this, there's a very nice damage calculator available at the German site to calculate the damage of 'Grief' (and everything else, too).

    Overall:
    Fun: 7/10
    Difficulty: 1/10 (seriously)
    Future: Council

    Journey:
    - Untwinked Double Swing to Level 15 @ Tamoe Highland
    - Ravenbazzoka to Level 27 @ Lower Kurast
    - A pair of 'Honor' Divine Scepters Double Swinging to Level 39. Respec to WW.
    - Butcher's Pupil's to Level 49.
    - Two 'Oath' Small Crescents to Level 64.

    I like the above set-up quite a bit. Ravenclaw -> 'Honor' -> Butcher's Pupil -> 'Oath' works like a charm. I'm not sure Double swing is the way to go at Level 27, I'll try Frenzy the next time.

    He died to NM Dolls a few times, other than that a clean bill of health. Honestly, he's such an overpowered character, he's not really having any problems throughout Hell, at /p8. The only thing that could give him problems were nasty packs of Ghosts.

    One nice thing I got to do, was to lead a group of Barbs on the Frigid Highlands. That was pretty cool.

    The big bad boss dropped something useful at the end, Giant Skull was a grailer for me.


    Other remarks:
    None. I don't think I'd be able to say something that wasn't already said here.

    Thanks for reading!
    --Greebo
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2011
  2. Grisu

    Grisu IncGamers Member

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    Re: My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged

    pffff... try this without ATMA-bugging-hax :p

    :wink:

    I was wondering about the weapon damages though...8,806 avg. with Grief seems quite good, bur 5,136 for beast? My whirler does 6,247 avg with Oath, and that is without Fortitude (and no off-hand Grief either :p). Is Oath really that strong???

    Anyways, what is your experience with the Chilling Armor from Fortitude? How often do corpses shatter because of it? Beware, that it is your answer I will base my (the!!!) decision on: Make Grief to accompany Oath for my whirler and stick with a +168%damage to demons Black Hades or make Fortitude? My Life (Lo) is in your hands now.

    Oh, and gg! :wink:
     
  3. scrcrw

    scrcrw IncGamers Member

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    Re: My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged

    Nice Pat! I'm sure the Trav runes will come soon enough. I'd give up a couple myself to avoid getting hit by those axes... ;)

    From what I've read Grief/Beast has advantages for PvP because
    (a) with Enigma you have less off-weapon ed and Fana has more of an impact
    (b) the first hit of whirlwind is only with the main-hand weapon (Grief), so for short whirls the average damage of Grief/Beast is higher than Grief/Grief.
    In your case (Forti/PvM) Grief/Grief would most likely be better.

    Also: In my experience (HC with 3,7k life (and ~320 str :))) resists are not that important against the Council. Under Conviction I had +1 FR and -25 LR and it just didn't matter. Damage + Life leech >> all. For the WSK that might be different...
     
  4. NagisaFurukawa

    NagisaFurukawa IncGamers Member

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    Re: My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged

    Congratulations on a well put-together character. Always nice to see people "wasting" points in dexterity, in order to improve their chance to hit a tad. :)

    Out of curiosity, do you think/find it really worth it to...

    1) ...use that amulet over Highlord's Wrath? A little slower in terms of getting around, but a bit faster as far as killing.

    2) ...use those 2x +3 weapons on switch, as opposed to something like 2x 'Spirit', or a 'Spirit' and [MF weapon of choice]? A little lower stats and [probably] hork percentage, but much better cast rate. (EDIT: The 2x 'Heart of the Oak' would obviously be better, of course. :p)

    Just some stuff to chew on. :tongue:

    P.S. Aside from what's already been mentioned, 'Beast' will also [probably] let you Berserk a tad faster, and helps a little with your chance to hit as well, of course. In any case, this is 1.13c we're talking about, so you could pretty easily just try both variants to see which you prefer. :wink:
     
  5. Greebo

    Greebo IncGamers Member

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    Re: My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged

    Yeah, no. Mostly because I'd need to keep repairing BAs every 5 runs, probably. A hax is a hax is a hax, but it's a cool hax.

    High roll 'Oath' is an awesome weapon, no question about it. I did some messing around with damage calculator, and came up with this comparison

    Both perfect rolls in 1.07 ethereal BA's, same set-up as before. The damage of 'Oath' disregards the Fanaticism aura (obviously):

    Code:
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    | Avg. Damage    | 'Beast' BA 270% ED | 'Oath' BA 340% ED |
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    | without CS/DS  |                    |                   |
    | vs. non-demons |              4,055 |             4,037 |
    | vs. demons     |              5,136 |             5,561 |
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    | incl. CS/DS    |                    |                   |
    | vs. non-demons |              5,270 |             5,248 |
    | vs. demons     |              6,676 |             7,229 |
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    
    I assume your 'Oath' is in a 2-hander? Or something really awesome...

    Wow, what responsibility! How can I cope...

    I did count the number of bodies on ~100 runs, and it was 11 most of the time. Rarely 10, twice 9. I'm pretty sure there are 11 Council members in there. I run on /p5 (too much stuff on the ground on /p7).

    As far as chilling armor goes, most of the time it doesn't even trigger. And if it triggers, there are at most 2-5 monsters left. I suspect most of my shatters come from the moron (0.25 sec. cold damage on Reaper's).

    'Grief' vs. 'Fortitude' is a tough question. I went with 'Fortitude' first, and had no regrets, but that's my personal experience. Let me put it differently: I don't think you should factor in any potential shattered corpses from Chilling Armor into your decision here.

    Yeah, you're probably right. When I get 'Enigma', I'll appreciate 'Beast' more. I refuse to make two 'Grief' BAs just for this character. It doesn't sit to well with me; I 'grew up' on 1.12a, so to speak. I was just surprised how much better 'Grief' is.

    Yeah, WSK is different. Sometimes there are Souls in the throne room, so you do want the LR. Any elemental damage is a joke when your moron has 90/60/60/90 under conviction. (I switched to 68% Kira's with Ral in it.)

    I agree LL+Damage >> resistances. I just like high resistances. A pet peeve.

    Thanks! I think I learned that about Dexterity from NF and reading about his plethora of characters using Angelic ring/amulet. I love hitting stuff.

    I tried running without the amulet, and I didn't like it.
    - It was slower; I had to run to the entrance to DoH, come back up.
    - I didn't like how it positioned my monsters:

    When I teleport inside, most of the time all 11 monsters' bodies are in a 4x5 yard square to the left of the entrance, around the Orb. I can collect stuff, Hork comfortably.

    When I went down to DoH, the bodies were all surrounding the entrance to DoH. When Horking and picking stuff up I kept going down to DoH by accident at least twice per run. Annoying.

    So I decided to stick to my TP amulet. Especially that I like it, a lot.

    Hmmm... I forgot about 'Spirit'. I was considering this situation as purely Echoing Sticks vs. double 'HotO'.

    Maybe. If I start using 'Enigma' (I'll switch to Highlords then, obviously), I'll go with 2x 'Spirit' for sure. I'll try it on and see if I like the faster casting.

    As I said, I refuse to make a 2nd BA 'Grief' just to see how I like it. It feels like a waste of runes. You're definitely right about Berserk and Attack Rating.

    ----

    Thanks for all the comments and grats!
    --Greebo


     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  6. iomanip

    iomanip IncGamers Member

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    Re: My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged

    about the triggering of venom on WW, i also have a grief (but in a pb), and have NEVER seen it trigger on whirling. To test something out i rolled a Crescent moon pb and tried that and it seems static does'nt proc either. on the other hand, if i double swing ~three times, both venom and static triggers.

    I concluded that WW doesn't trigger CtC procs. Am I wrong?

    oh, and nice weapons...
    /iomanip
     
  7. Fabian

    Fabian IncGamers Member

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    Re: My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged

    So glad to see someone appreciate my Teleport charges advice :) Based on previous experience, I definitely think that amulet (or pretty much any teleport charges amulet) would be more beneficial than Highlord's.

    Nice looking character. Pumping Dexterity is definitely the right call for a Trav runner, too, imo. How much depends on your specific equipment, but from what I could tell when doing calculations, the first few Dexterity points would almost always be more beneficial than the last few Strength points, unless you had like two Angelic Rings and 20 Steel charms. And Beast :)
     
  8. Greebo

    Greebo IncGamers Member

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    Re: My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged

    You're almost correct. The only way it can trigger is if you're standing right next to the monster and attack it with WW. Your barb won't spin but simply hit the monster (not sure it even does more damage than normal attack).

    Such attack has a chance of triggering CtC stuff. So sometimes WW can 'accidentally' trigger Venom.

    I love the amulet. Thanks for writing the guide, btw. :worship:

    Yeah, I did some math too, and I definitely agree. Especially true since I'm wearing 'Fortitude', making next Strength point matter less in terms of percentage increase in damage.

    --Greebo


     
  9. nulio

    nulio IncGamers Member

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    Re: My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged

    Congrats on the great Pat!

    I'm running my Blizzy just to try and get rich to make one of these. I would to try one with Enigma and dual ethbuged 1.07 grief swords! It would be so cool! Would he lose much dmg compared to yours?
     
  10. Greebo

    Greebo IncGamers Member

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    Re: My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged

    Thanks!

    Well, I'm a little confused about what you mean by "dual ebugged 1.07 'Grief' swords".

    (1) The term I strongly encourage to use is ATMA-bugged not ebugged. Read why.
    (2) What kind of swords are we talking about? There are 3 swords that you can make 'Grief' in:
    • Phase Blade - it's indestructible so it cannot be ethereal. Also, for the very same reason, looking for those in 1.07 makes no sense (other than perhaps style points).
    • Colossus Swords - Those never reach the last WW breakpoint, so useless (as far as maximizing the damage goes at least)
    • Colossus Blades - You need IAS roll in 39-40 on BOTH swords to reach the last WW breakpoint

    The last option you could 1.07 ATMA-ebug. But honestly, I think both Enigma and eBotD would be cheaper in terms of #runes spent and time to get than such setup.

    In terms of performance: 1.07-ATMA-ebugged-Berserker's Axe is 1.2% better then 1.07-ATMA-bugged-Colossus Blade for equal damage roll of 'Grief'.

    Hope that helps.
    --Greebo

    EDIT: Yeah, Zweihander is a nice option. I keep forgetting about non-elite bases sometimes.


     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  11. nulio

    nulio IncGamers Member

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    Re: My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged

    I meant ATMA-Bugged. Two eGriefs.

    I would love two zweihanders (after talking with Pyro I'm convinced they're better than colossus blades, any IAS roll would do in the first kind, for the second probably various tries would be needed, like you say BotD would be probably cheaper).

    Why swords? Just for the style, axes don't look bad, but swords look awesome!
     
  12. Naab

    Naab IncGamers Member

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    Re: My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged

    Always nice to see well equipped Barbs, congratz. From my experiences with WW barb i highly recommend getting enigma even though (and this is 1.13b where everything is possible pretty much) i don't know how much of a differrence it makes with running council, but for baal runs its certainly the best armor possible. I take mobility over 300% ED anyday. You could drop the amulet for highlords then, too.
    The other thing i noticed was your thoughts about the AR. From my experience with lots and lots of Baal runs with the barb(he is lvl 97 now) you don't really need that huge AR since Grief already has ITD and -Def%. I had 8k or 6k AR with Demon limb and HotO switch and it really didnt make any difference i felt compared to when i cast the enchant or when i didn't since Grief is your main damage dealer anyway.Therefore imo you could easily dump those points from dexterity to strenght to have even more faster killing speed and better leaching. I remember when i respecced my barb from 4,3k life to 2k life and everything else to strenght i won 15 secs from average baal run time which imo was well worth it.
    Only problem was that i had to stay away from dolls more often espescially under amp/decrep.
     
  13. Serdash

    Serdash IncGamers Member

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    Re: My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged

    Question:
    Is the Um in the Arreat's -really- that necessary? Dump a PDiamond in it for +100 more AR.

    And why War Travs? You're running council(I assume) for runes? I'm sure the council can drop some okay items but by the looks of your gear you don't need to do a whole lot of magic finding(unless in the newest patch they changed something where MF% was factored into rune finding). Sanders boots are an instant awesome of 100 AR and whatever the +10 dex provides.

    Otherwise, gg. Looks like a fun build. I remember building a gold find barb to run council that used BotD and Oath, he did half decent at P8, but since it was gold find, well, I toned it down to 3 or so to compensate for my own laziness. Whirlbarbs with overpowered axes are always gg.
     
  14. Greebo

    Greebo IncGamers Member

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    Re: My #13 Patriarch: OwnsTheCouncil, WW Trav killer w/ 'Beast' & 'Grief' ATMA-bugged

    Thanks!

    Well, one of the reasons why I build this guy was so that I could get an 'Enigma' ;)

    His WSK map is ridiculous. He needs one TP and can run the rest very fast. But I agree that 'Enigma' would be better, especially for Baaling. Right now he's running the council like crazy and TP charges are OK there.

    You're probably right about the Baal runs, I didn't do nearly enough to have an experience. (With a Barb, I mean.)

    When it comes to Council, 3 of the 11 monsters that spawn are Superuniques. To the best of my knowledge ITD doesn't work on Superuniques. Am I wrong?

    Aside from that, Stone Skin is a fairly common mod on Ismail (doubling his Def), which means most of the time three of the monsters I'm fighting have 3.5k Def, and are immune to ITD. For those I think it's a fairly good idea to have a decent AR, even with -25% Target Def on 'Grief'.

    Another thing: 'Beast' might be the weaker weapon here, but it still deals 1/3 of the damage. It needs to hit.

    Right now he's (being) optimized for Council. If and when I start running Baal exclusively with him, I'll respec and regear. Even so, having high AR and high resistances are two things I really like to have on a character, a little independently of whether it's "the right way" to do it.

    Maybe. It's my only 6% LL Arreat's, and it's got 'Um' in it for other builds.

    I might trade for another 6% LL Arreat's and use a PDiamond, or maybe a nice jewel with damage/AR to demons and other mods. I have some in my stashes.

    MF is not factor in rune finding. The tip about Sander's is awesome, I wouldn't have thought of them. 10 Dex = 50 AR, btw.

    But I think I'll stick to the War Travs. I've run the Council a few hundred times with nothing to show for other than a Mal, Pul. Finding Seraph's, 28-Mara's (2nd self-found ever), 5%-BKWB (1st self-found ever) makes me feel much better about it.

    The Council is decent when it comes to jewelry, charms and jewels. It's worth having 100% MF on, especially that when MF is this low, the diminishing returns have not kicked in much.

    1-handed BotD pre-1.13, huh? Original, gg!

    --Greebo


     

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