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Multishot vs Strafe

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by warriorrk, Apr 1, 2006.

  1. KOMARAC

    KOMARAC Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    yes it does



     
  2. SalivaMonster

    SalivaMonster Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    The common ground is. Multi + Strafe.
    The problem is:
    1 ias
    You need to choose a bow that work fine for both skill. They require different additional ias to attain the idea break point. That means you have to adjust your helm, ammy, glove, belt and even armor(but I doubt anyone would choose anything other than fort), so that they give enough ias for both skill.

    2 mana
    Multi need lots more mana leach and bigger mana pool, especially at high level. That would affect your other gear choice. Plan beforehead: what % of time am I going to use multi/strafe? How can I test it out? In most gear package, the only mana source is manald/dual leach ring. Do you have access to a nice pair of crafted kb ml ias +skill gloves? Do you have to sacrifice for your 2/15 faith GMB for WF for its ml? Do you have to resort to Glooms Trap?

    For me, I am a Witchyzon die hard fans. Strafe all the way.
     
  3. Stevomoo

    Stevomoo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    give your merc the faith then you can have wf and its all good. with this set up you can use both skills to your hearts content.
     
  4. deepfreez

    deepfreez Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    What stevo said.
     
  5. galzohar

    galzohar Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    If you're using multi/strafe, +bow skill items are not the best kind of items to pick, assuming you could pick a different affix in its place. More skills is always better though.

    Anyway for all those situations where strafe would've been good for I was finding myself using freezing arrow (and even in some cases where MS would've been better than strafe i still used freezing arrow). It even takes less gear to make freezing arrow out-do strafe for small packs. And for big/spread out packs multi wins regardless. So strafe would only really be good for small packs that are cold immune, so settling for 0-1 point in it for those is probably just fine.
     
  6. accipite

    accipite Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    Vote for Multi
    Strafe may have better performance under 1pp or against small packs.
     
  7. Alecz

    Alecz Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    I've seen many answers and opinions here revolving around available gear.
    However, I'm against dupe words, so I will probably never have a Faith or Pride.

    The gear I intend to use is what I personally found/made:

    Wep: Windforce/Harmony/Buriza (I have a Hellcast, but it's too slow!)
    Armor: Treachery (for 45 IAS, and the occasional fade)
    Helm: probably Kyra's or some +skills / leech / resists rare circlet or something

    I dont want to use shako/tals/vamp/andy's, cause it looks ugly, it has to be some coronet or Tiara, or something like that. I just love to see her ponytail :loving:


    Jewelry: Angelic ammy + ring, and other ring to compensate with leech/resist/CBF/???

    Boots/belt/Gloves: not decided, probably IAS/resists/leech/FRW/CB something along those lines.

    Might merc with leech gear/defense/resists.


    Now given the above setup... I put my skills:
    20 Strafe
    3-ish Multishot
    20 Valkyrie
    5-ish penetrate
    1-pierce
    5-ish Crit strike
    3-D/A/E
    1-cold arrows
    1-fire arrows

    I probably wasted the points on the fire arrows... I found the freezing arrows useful: I can pin the monsters and Strafe them safely. I use Ice/Frozen on left, and strafe on right.

    At lvl 70-ish I had all these skills, now my question is where should I put the rest?

    Since I have the angelic combo, my AR is decent, so I don't really need more penetrate.

    I also expect to have some +5 bow skills. (Torch, 1 GC I found, and from equip somewhere)

    1) should I put in Multishot, or is it going to be enough?
    2) should I put in Decoy to make the valk even stronger?
    3) more in Ice/freeze arrow to help with phys immunes and cold length?
    4) Crit strike/penetrate/pierce

    I probably forgot to say I don't PvP. I intend this bowzon to be capable to clear Furnace of Pain also, Valk can tank Izzy no prob :nod:
     
  8. Karky

    Karky Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    Question about strafe:
    everyone seems to talk about maxing it, but do you need to? why not just get it up to where you get the most arrows and stop. The + to dmg after that is pretty low so I think the skill points can be better spent elsewhere, like the passive magic tree for more critical or D/A/E.

    I'm building a zon now and I think I'm gonna put points in both skills, not maxing them though, and have a lot of points in the passive tree.
     
  9. Alecz

    Alecz Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    I think it depends on what skills you want to use most.

    If you are going to use both equally, you could but several points ion both, if you plan to use Strafe mostly and have multi for some special situations, then max the main and have few in the other.

    I see you point about the damage being pretty much irrelevant, so i don't think it's a very big risk to have a few in both.

    On the other hand, many passives have diminishing returns, then you might get +skills, so you have to be careful about that.
    Maxing the Valk in PvM is not a bad choice, same as maxing penetrate.

    Really for amazon and non-casters in general the skills are not that critical, it's the equipment that makes the difference.
     
  10. akstylish

    akstylish Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    Exactly what I was thinking. I'd rather max decoy for valk synergy or guided arrow for bosses.


     
  11. Omikron8

    Omikron8 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    guided arrow became obsolete for pve when 1.10 came around

    multishot beats strafe in all situations except for bosses (without minions) and the rare case where there are multiple monsters from all angles (like canyon of magi or flayer jungle)
     
  12. phor

    phor Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    I don't agree with that at all...

    Sure it's not an automatic 20 points like it used to be, but "always hits" still makes it a fantastic skill for a ton of builds that aren't built around AR.

    And even though it's not the incredibly overpowered skill it used to be, you can still use it to cheese uniques and boss mobs from off-screen.



     
  13. Omikron8

    Omikron8 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    you're right, what i should have said it was it's obsolete for 20 point investment in pve
     
  14. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    I dont get it how people keep saying how strafe is a faster killer than multi. Where is the proof? Id only agree with this if one was using a slow bow or a low damage one with all sorts of effects triggering on striking. But with a good high damage 7 or 8 frame multishot bow, I cant possibly see how it can be the case. From my stopwatch timed runs, multishot amas have been faster than strafe ones in the pit and river of flame in 1-3 player games, havent measured in big games
     
  15. Omikron8

    Omikron8 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    i completely agree

    in early 1.10 i was all about max strafe with minimal multishot and i noticed that against anything but really tight packs of monsters it took forever to take ALL of them down

    unlike multishot where i aim in the general direction and hit all of them simultaneously

    the only reason i max strafe or bother with it at all is for the boss killing. and for act bosses i would actually prefer guided arrow (one point) because of insta kill attacks like diablo's LBOD

    strafe has the big disadvantage that it sucks against moving targets while it's difficult for a monster to avoid a multishot that covers the entire screen of movement
     
  16. amne

    amne Banned

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    lt reader, ft poster.
    sorry for annoying the ones that had the nerves and time to read all about a bowazone, probably i'm not saying anything new, still, i'd appreciate some help. first thing's first, i ONLY do pvm sp no batle.net. i hate muling aswell. been that way and it's very boring. so i'm talking of an untwinked, no reruns, no boss runz, strafeazone. that means that my chances (no mf whatsoever) of getting those uber items is close to none, and i like it that way. no wws, nor ws in "sight", possible useful runewords are hard to come by, merc using the crappy gear i manage to find on my own, you get where i'm pointing at.
    ok, using the above mentioned, i've managed to create some interesting bowazons (all centred on strafe) that really rocked on hell. now i'm building a new one, and although i admitt that ms is pretty cool - it's just not my style. she's in her early twenties, lots of skill points spared, aiming for strafe/valkyrie maxs. i know fa is good (i really know :) ), but, with a low chance of getting a relatively decent gear, with no interest in investing in java skills, and taking into consideration those dual pici's, i wonder if immolation would be the thing to help.
    sorry for being such a noob, i'd appreciate any info on that.
    oh, btw, forgot to tell that i'm planning on investing points in d/a/e (9-11 each), penetrate - 9, plus the inevitable prereqs. thanx a lot.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2008
  17. NASE

    NASE Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    immolation arrow certainly ain't worth it. Not only does it do crappy damage, though it will take away points that should go in passive skill to improve physical damage - critical or penetrate - or in cold arrow - the first cold skill you learn - as a synergy for freeze arrow.
    Taking out dual immunes - assuming that you really want to take them out, this isn't always needed - can best be done by a one points magic arrow or one point fire arrow. This will not be a fast solution, though it won't damage your main damage sources and it's not like you will encounter that much dual immunes anyway.

    P.S. let me congratulate you on the good job. Untwinked bowazon aren't easy and often lack damage. Getting one together is a great job.
    P.P.S. Welcome to the forum.

    [edit]
    you are playing 1.10/1.11 or 1.12 right?
     
  18. amne

    amne Banned

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    nase
    thanks a lot. never played a bowa with immolation skills, as i was not sure it would prove effective for the extra points of skills invested. right about magic arrow, useful for dual pici's, but slooooooooooooooooow. i'll rely on that and hope for some decent gear.
    thanks again.
    1.10.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2008
  19. DudSpud

    DudSpud Diabloii.Net Member

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    BurrizaZon question

    I have muddled through this thread, with strong opinions on all three sides - Strafe is teh secks, Multi rulz, and both is best. I come down in the "both" camp, but that is based on my style/HC/equipment issues.

    Obviously, the hard data cannot be found as it depends on the lay and number of the monsters, not to mention the style of the player. Therefore, I use multi and strafe depending on the situation. True, SC WF/Faith/Forti Bowies can use either and be successful, but for me that isn't an option.

    Second, to the questioner who asked about maxing Strafe, even though you get 10 max arrow at slvl 6. It isn't about the Max fired, its about the min, which is 2 + slvl/4. Strafe is great against 1/a few monsters, and the more that you can be firing at 2 frames the better. Bottom line, get strafe only up to an slvl with +skills that is evenly divisible by 4 - the extra damage is not worth it, IMHO. Put those extra points in passives or CA/FA.

    Also, bear in mind that the +% physical damage from strafe is counted before the the general -25% all damage penalty. So if you have +300% from dex, say, and + 100% physical from slvl 20 strafe, you're still only doing +300% physical after the penalty, not counting the - 25% reduction in any elemental damge. Of course, the same applies to Multi, which has no bonus to counteract the penalty. Multi in the above example would do only +225% physical, but against multiple monsters you are hitting each one far more often.

    I have played many (budget, by necessity) SP SC WWS strafers, and I loved them. Now I am playing SP HC on a budget, and my experience tells me that, in most situations and definitelty against 5 or more badies, MS>Strafe because Strafelock = Deeds (even with Merc / Valk/ strategic Decoy drops - or maybe I am not as competent as Dacar et alia), mobile monsters are necessary but hard to hit, next delay means some arrows are wasted against 1 / a few monsters, and Multi scouts better because of its greater range (look for the leech swirlie) - mana is handled by potions/Insight/leech, though the issue isn't as bad as it seems because I would never max multi.

    My specific question is what do you HC Bowies do, particularly those who are using a Buriza. I have stopped at slvl 12 (34 frames/ 5 arrow cycle in my current kit and I wish I had next delay issues), and Diablo/Baal force me to use GA because of strafelock...

    Thanks,
    DudSpud
     
  20. TempestKhan

    TempestKhan Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Multishot vs Strafe

    I think i solved it bein a pure bow ama u can afford this without any trouble

    Formula:
    Put 10 points in multi get the last 10 from skill gear - this will be your crowd control

    Max strafe with 20 points an let your extra do more dmg - this will be the boss killer CONS: may use to much mana

    Guide arrow as i see it is only is for PvP dunno if its better for boss killing than Strafe??
     

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