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Mule Rules - Battle.net: member contribution required ifra

Discussion in 'Diablo 2 Community Forum' started by Ax2Grind, Oct 21, 2006.

  1. Ax2Grind

    Ax2Grind Diabloii.Net Member

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    Mule Rules - Battle.net: member contribution required

    I hear a lot about needing second computers or XP for user switching (there's a thread on this forum explaining the procedure), or just having a trustworthy friend available, to safely switch items from character to character, account to account. That isn't always the case, though, as it's completely possible to lose items without them ever hitting the ground. I'm sure many people will claim this isn't possible, but - if you do - make sure you provide more than anecdotal evidence since this thread will be the first draft of what and what not to do when muling, and how to do it.

    I'll start off with the most important issue, individual item transfer. The difference between Diablo and Diablo 2, with regard to saving characters, is not being able to save a snapshot any time in a game without exiting, and since exiting games in 1.10 and beyond on Battle.net extends the character use time requirements, doing such often within a short frame of time can have severe consquences. Autosaves occur every five minutes in single-player, and it's likely the same on Battle.net, but you must exit a game to have all items on a character locked down, otherwise. Follow this common example for ground transferring:

    You enter a game and stabilize the rejoin safety (five minutes or more), drop an item, leave, then come back with another character and immediately pick the item up. You feel the item is safely in your hands and no longer in danger, but less than five minutes later the server stops responding and you receive an interrupted connection. Because the autosave didn't kick in, and because you didn't manually 'save and exit,' the item won't be on the character the held it when the gamekill occurred. Likewise, since the character who dropped it did save and exit, his snapshot doesn't include the item; the item is lost.

    Now, many people believe it was because the item was on the ground when no one was in the game, but I've tested this theory (completely by accident, of course) and found it happens when trading character-to-character, as well. This example shows how:

    Both characters enter a game, not worrying about the rejoin safety, and one initiates a trade. He places the item in the trade screen, confirms, then saves and exits. At this point, his first character is saved without the item. Whether he enters and successfully receives the item back with a second character is irrelevent if a gamekill begins before he or the intervening character saves and exits with it, themselves. If this occurs before autosave has kicked in for the intervening character, he and the second character are rolled back to the last save, neither of which has the item in question; the item is lost.

    I don't know of any appending save that occurs during trading, or whether such may be responsible for the rumor of perming runes (I don't believe it either way), the only way to make sure an item has been successfully stored on a character is to time the autosaves or save manually by leaving the game before a gamekill befalls that server. Since timing the autosave, or knowing the exact point a gamekill will/started to occur, is very difficult, every person transferring items in any way, shape or form assumes some risk. I know that statement comes as a shock to many, but - from my experience - it's true.

    What I'd like to know is if there's a way around this, if I've missed something, if it's dead on or if there's an easier way to time autosaves (assuming the information about them is still the same) or such. If it's on the mark, then feel free to confirm or add another piece of advice for muling. Eventually, I'd like to combine all muling procedures in SP (mostly ATMA) and B.ent with the XP user switching thread and other forms of quick networking with regards to Diablo 2, but that's up to the members and their responses, so post up!
     
  2. k/t

    k/t Banned

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    I read a while ago that items transferred through the trade screen will be saved on the char they are being given to. I don't know if it's true, though. To make it more clear: giving items to someone through the trade screen will cause a save to occur, at least for the person receiving the items. Maybe for the other one too.
     
  3. Merick

    Merick Diabloii.Net Member

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    When someone leaves or joins, the game is saved.
     
  4. wildbillboy

    wildbillboy Banned

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    I have games I mule in quit on me what? - once per year?
     
  5. Ax2Grind

    Ax2Grind Diabloii.Net Member

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    The entire game?

    All characters in the game are saved, similar to an autosave, on every join/leave? I've never heard that before, ever. Does this include the character who enters or just those already in the game at the time? With that kind of disc access going on it would explain why Blizzard put such stupid restrictions on joining games too often. Where is this written, so I can view it?



     
  6. ffejrxx

    ffejrxx Diabloii.Net Member

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    bliz does an auto save every 5 min or so
     
  7. Merick

    Merick Diabloii.Net Member

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    I know I've heard it before, but I can't find any mention of it :\ Tkae it with a grain of salt I guess.
    Here's a thread that discusses this issue: http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=456296&highlight=game+save



     
  8. seralph

    seralph Diabloii.Net Member

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    so do I, but I rember a thread about accidently dupeing which is not possible in case this is true.



     
  9. ael

    ael Diabloii.Net Member

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    It was possible to accidentaly dupe. Basicaly you entered a very laggy game, dropped your stuff and rejoined. You still had your stuff in your inv and you also had the items on the ground. 3pps just created a great amount of lag. But luckily that was patched and no longer works.
     
  10. rykuss

    rykuss Banned

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    I've lost items traded between chars before, either with two of my own chars or in an actual trade with another forum member. Hanging around to chit chat after a trade has proven fatal in my experience. Best solution, leave the game once you have received your item(s) and return if you want to talk for a bit. :thumbsup:
     
  11. seralph

    seralph Diabloii.Net Member

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    Glad to hear they fixed this. I actually was thinking of something else. The way you describe wouldn't give any implizit information regarding the question if all chars get safed or only the char which leaves the game.



     
  12. Ax2Grind

    Ax2Grind Diabloii.Net Member

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    Is this a confirmation?

    Do you mean you both got a gamekill and the entire trade was rolled back, or that one of you (presumably you) stayed in the game while the other left and only you lost the items (i.e. the items he traded to you were lost and you ended up with the original copy *erp* of your items)? Either way, if part of the trade was negated, and this was in 1.11, then that puts to rest the 'save after trade' theory, though I can't say which of you would've lost your gear first if they had the same fingerprints. In doing so, it also puts to rest the perming concept, since a few people have testified they perm every time they leave a game using a character with rare runes and they've still vanished.

    I've always wondered something with regards to people who've left games before gamekills began, but may have interacted with the others through trading. If I do have those items and enter another game while the previous begins a gamekill with/out someone in it, would my character - and perhaps the characters in the new game I may also have interacted with since then - be affected, as well, to prevent those items from continuing down the line? It may be a way to prevent duping, too, but - if it's true - could have a severe cascading effect.



     
  13. templecrasher

    templecrasher Diabloii.Net Member

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    I traded Pul + Fal + Fal for 3 tkeys and 3 Hkeys a few months ago. The game was very laggy, but we made the trade. Later that evening my trading partner emailed me saying that he had been rolled back and wanted to trade again. When I logged in, I was still in possession of the keys. It seems that we duped the keys and lost the runes in this transaction. BTW, we used the window and the trading partner was a well-respected member of Traders.DiabloII.net.
     
  14. Ax2Grind

    Ax2Grind Diabloii.Net Member

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    Alright, this is definitely 1.11 and the accidental duping still occurs if one character leaves and the other doesn't before a gamekill begins, rolling the latter back. This means the 'save after trade' and 'save all when one exits' claims are almost dead, although 'save all when one joins' is still there. I'd be far less likely to believe this, however, since it makes no sense. The autosave is frequent enough to suffice as far as Blizzard is concerned, so as of now I'm still under the impression only two types of saves exist: saves on exit and five-minute autosaves.

    Thanks to everyone who's posted thus far, but keep them coming. I want to know.
     
  15. rykuss

    rykuss Banned

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    Yes, all items were lost between both parties. We stayed in the game after completing the trade and were talking. Then we were hit with the connection interruption and lost the items.
     
  16. seralph

    seralph Diabloii.Net Member

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    ok. After someone has posted how it still works and the post didn't get deleted I decided to say little more. The accidently duping happend me twice in 1.11. I allways mule through the trade window, leave the game and bring in the next mule etc. Both time I brought the dupe and it's original togheter. They both existed in the same game, then I have put the one on the play char in the trade window and right in the moment I confirmed the trade the one in the trade window poofed(both time). While playing with friends I had several CI where a char entred the game after an autosave. The item(s) I picked up before he entred were gone after rollback.

    So there is only the auto-save and the save&exit for the char who leaves. Everything else is a myth. Maybe there is an other mechanism but then I need a experiment which can be prooven to start believing it.
     
  17. Ax2Grind

    Ax2Grind Diabloii.Net Member

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    Two forms of saves exist:

    Save on exit (used either during the Save And Exit menu command or after various timeout conditions);
    Autosave (since single-player lists it as every five minutes, there's no reason to believe otherwise on Battle.net).

    Now, we can get to the heart of muling. Make sure you're using the fastest rendering option for your system - fastest in the terms of de/constructing the renderer. If, after you choose Save And Exit, you wait ten seconds before reaching a channel or the lobby, then it's too slow. Just to be safe, have a second shortcut set up in your operating system designed for DirectDraw windowed mode, which will be strictly for muling/inventory/trading games.

    Start by stabilizing a game (activate the rejoin safety), which is done by holding a responding game open for at least five minutes. If the game is periodically unresponsive, or if the latency is wavy, the server may be unstable. Leave the game and make another, since there's no point in keeping track of such servers through Netstat. Also, don't rely on the half-to-full minute hold B.ent places on every game so the character creating can join. If you time out or get a three-minute realm down, your items are lost, but - more importantly - the main reason is the time restriction Blizzard has placed on its customers with 1.10. The best way of doing this is creating a very long, but not random character, game name having the same password. By copying the game name into memory storage (Ctrl+C on several systems), you can paste-Tab-paste-Enter and quickly rejoin a game, but by making the name something you can memorize rather easily you put less risk in your computer shutting down and losing the information in memory. This may still be risky if people on your friends list aren't trustworthy, as they may see you create and leave such a long-named game five minutes later and expect items to be there if you aren't.

    Upon the rejoin safety engaging, drop the item(s) and exit before it hits the ground at the respawn point in act one. Leave the channel or lobby, whichever you return to, and select the receiving character - unless said character is on a different account, in which case switch accounts before doing so. Re-enter the game and immediately pick the item(s) up, since they should be at your feet. Save And Exit once more.

    Although you should stay in each game an average of three minutes per character, those minutes give B.ent a chance to take the item away. By entering again, with a third character, you ensure the game still exits, is responsive enough to secure the previous Save And Exit, and can time the third character for six minutes. Three minutes go by fast when trying to level a character, so six minutes makes the best use of time and doesn't trip the character-use requirements as long as those minutes are made up by the next character.

    Any tips to add?
     

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