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Movies you want made

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by jmervyn, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. jmervyn

    jmervyn IncGamers Member

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    Well, it's often said that Hollywood is intellectually bankrupt, or at least out of ideas. The fact that we're seeing reboots of Daredevil, {three?} Hulk rewrites, enough Spider-Man remakes to fill a funhouse mirror reflection is a good exhibit in making the case.

    Another exhibit is the way that meat & potatoes movies do so well, while Hollywood materials often do poorly. American Sniper was box office gold, both Chronicles of Narnia movies did respectably, and one can look at some of Mel Gibson's works as all having "good v. evil" basic entertainment value. These stand in contrast to recent extravaganzas about Moses and Noah, or a wide array of leftist hobby-horse productions about terrorist=good America=bad subjects bankrolled by people like Robert Redford.

    So what say you? What are movies you want made? Why haven't they been made yet?

    *******************************************

    There's three I've considered; first is a remake. Brave New World was turned into two lackluster TV movies in 1980 and 1989. It may be that it's considered to cerebral for a good movie, but one of my all-time favorites was Brazil so I discount that.

    The second is "War in 2020" by LTC Ralph Peters, a fairly prolific author and sometime FOX n00z military talking head. It seems like an ideal vehicle for a lower-budget futuristic military flick, and since much of the high-teckerie would be animation of a helicopter I wouldn't put it far past "Blue Thunder" as technical challenge. I really don't know why it's not been turned into a screenplay.

    Third and last is a portion of Moorcock's The History of the Runestaff - though I'm undecided as to how it ought to be imagined. I think Hawkmoon would be more readily translated to video than stories about either Corum or Elric.
     
  2. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged IncGamers Member

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    This, for sure.
    Elric and Corum would require a lot of input from the screen-writing camp and it's hard to imagine a seriously talented word-smith touching a "sword-and-sandals-with-bells-and-whistles" epic. Mind you, the tie-in with the Eternal Champion theme would dwarf MarvelLand, in scope and in content. Jerry Cornelius, anyone?
    Hawkmoon, OTOH, would have the necessary bright lights and explosions to tempt Hollywooden. A stand-alone composite film or a four-parter would work. Don't get me wrong, I loved the Runestaff story arc but it's probably one of the most accessible Moorcroft inventions. Plus - cool re-workings of existing place-names - always fun for the anoraks!

    But no - my offering is the First Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. All necessary technology is in place to make a decent rendition of the tale ... except, of course, the technology required to make cinema-going window-lickers cope with the anti-hero to end all anti-heroes that was Covenant. Unfortunately, we are centuries away from being able to do this.

    Other movies that I am desperate to see - Use Of Weapons and Player of Games, exquisite novels by Iain M Banks. The Bridge by Iain Banks. All that the filmmaker has to do is remember that it is the plots and the characters that make these novels great - the SFX need only perform as they do in the books, provide a Wow factor whilst not detracting from the story.

    I have almost no hope for any of these.
     
  3. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    As I wrote a few times before, there's stuff for a dozen awesome movies in the Silmarillion, but I will have to demand that Peter Jackson isn't doing this.

    Apart from that, there's a lot of scifi and fantasy stuff. For example, I ask myself what movies based on the first bunch of "Amber" novels by Roger Zelasny or the Hyperion epos by Dan Simmons would be like.

    BTW, how much religious upset would the latter cause in the US?
     
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  4. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged IncGamers Member

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    Nothing but win in the above post except - hasn't Obama abolished religion in the US?

    Edit: Jackson has proved himself an unsafe pair of hands as far as Tolkien story-telling is concerned.




    dontbitedontbitedontbite
     
  5. Technomancer

    Technomancer IncGamers Member

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    I'd be fairly content with a not-embarrassing D&D movie myself.
     
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  6. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    What about a TV series based on D&D modules? First season: GDQ 1-7, then the party dies in the Tomb of Horrors :D

    Seriously, what makes up a D&D movie?
     
  7. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged IncGamers Member

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    Rolling the dice for initiative whenever there is an action scene coming up. That would work.
     
  8. Dredd

    Dredd D3 Off Topic Moderator

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  9. jmervyn

    jmervyn IncGamers Member

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    Or the Lankhmar series. In a similar vein, I forgot to include Dream Park in my initial list. I'd heard whispers about it a while back, but nothing concrete - while the obvious complaint would be that it would be a WestWorld knock-off, I think the material could easily stand on its own.
     
  10. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged IncGamers Member

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    Lankhmar, yes indeedy :D
     
  11. Technomancer

    Technomancer IncGamers Member

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    I almost mentioned the GDQ modules!! A TV series would probably be better though. Game of Thrones can't last forever. ...can it? I always think of these things in terms of movies, like I didn't expect to see Ash vs. Evil Dead, I expected a new movie. But that series is gonna rock.

    There is a court battle currently going on between WotC and the douchebag that made the last 3 movies over rights to make a new big-budget movie (it's really more of a proxy battle between Warner Bros. and Universal). I'm not overly optimistic either way, but Wizards CAN'T do any worse than he did.

    :facepalm: No. No. Just, no. :p I do love me some Dungeonland though. ;)

    ---

    One of the biggest problems I see with fantasy movies in general is that they are not really character centric, but situation centric. Ooh, yeah, the Big Bad Evil Guy is doing Evil Things in this Fantasy Realm and the generic <insert adjective> Good Guy has to do something about it. Why should I, or anyone else, care? Game of Thrones isn't INSANELY POPULAR because of battles or dragons or adventures or political posturing. It's insanely popular because of the PEOPLE involved. Everyone has people in the series they love and that they hate. Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Arya, etc. vs. the rest of the Lannisters and everyone else that we are given good, in-depth, and often complicated reasons to despise, along with a whole lot of gray in between. To a lesser degree the LotR movies did a good job of that as well (regardless of how you may feel about other parts of the execution), and that's the real reason they were so popular. Why do we love Evil Dead? Is it the story world? No, not really. It's Ash, and the occasional Deadite. And Bad Ash. :D The story world is just a great place for the real attractions to attract.

    For a D&D movie or series to really be successful, it would have to be about the characters. It's counter-intuitive, because it's easy to think D&D is all about adventures and magic and DRAGONS!! It's not. It's about the characters people play to navigate through all those things. All those other things are great, but they are not the center of the universe, the people (and characters) who play the game are. That's why the novels that are really successful are successful. It's Drizzt, Elminster, Raistlin, Tanis, etc. If it was just generic, barely fleshed out stereotypes going through those stories, no one would have ever cared. The reason they seem like stereotypes now is because so many people were captivated by them to the point of overusing them.

    To that point, Lankhmar would be a good setup for obvious reasons. I think doing something based on (or including) AD&D modules could be done well too, but it would have to have a good cast of strong, compelling characters not using the story as a crutch. Heck, you could make a full campaign with a series. Go from the Temple of Elemental Evil to the Slavers in High Port, then stop by the Tomb of Horrors, White Plume Mountain, and the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun before delving into the Giant's Halls and Drow caverns and beyond.

    Alternately, you could center it around the main characters from Greyhawk like Mordenkainen, Tenser, Lord Robilar, Rary, etc. from their early days to the later years when shit went totally whack. And Vecna. Must have Vecna... :mad:
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2015
  12. jmervyn

    jmervyn IncGamers Member

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    For that matter, there's far too many carbon-copy MMORPG plots of the same sort - 'Yahtzee' Croshaw has proved that to my satisfaction. So it's hard to make something with any true novelty, leaving aside some tired tropes or stupid angles. I watched "Knights of Badassdom" and was more than a little disappointed, despite being a fan of both Dinklage and Glau.

    You could make it sexxay but that ups your MPAA rating and restricts your audience. You can make it funny but comedy can be a hard sell (I never liked Ash). You can make it scary but you can cram in only so many jumpscares as substitutes for plot points. Most of all, you can craft something worthy with all elements but even "masters" often make something forgettable in the attempt.

    Well, that and the raw sex. If anything, movies that dial up the sex a notch can do well as "adult" themes, purely on the basis of something more interesting and not on the T&A factor alone. IMO, Lambert's Beowulf was a far better movie because of the softcore than it otherwise would have been (and ought to have even gone further), and can you imagine trying to sell GoT on the politics and personalities?

    There's a reason The Tudors or Spartacus: Blood & Sand outdoes I, Claudius, despite the far superior characteristics of the latter. That reason is the "adult" theme beyond just prurient viewing; throwing in a softcore character instead of Jar-Jar might have saved Ep1!

    Which reminds me of a remake I want - The Entity. Barbara Hershey was babealicious in the day, but the original definitely shows its age (1982).

    I just threw up a little in my mouth. You're killing all my SQUEEE! about Fallout 4. Since even the original Greyhawk characters are all derivatives, I think it would be better (and less litigious/costly) to go 'blank slate'. People who like D&D like fantasy, just as people who like Fallout like post-apoc, and the character archetype is what they find important rather than the technical characters themselves. Consider that Fallout's Dogmeat was originally envisioned as the pooch from Mad Max 2, with a subtext of the jacket worn by Gibson.

    No matter what, #GamerGate proves you're going to irritate some people even while you attract others. The solution is to make material that will attract more than are turned off, and that's not always something Hollywood has enough political or social wisdom to do.
     
  13. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged IncGamers Member

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    Is it wrong of me to believe that GoT and Spartacus:B&S succeeded in spite of nudity/sex rather than because of it?

    I knew it! I knew I was wrong!
     
  14. jmervyn

    jmervyn IncGamers Member

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    I'm saying that GoT and B&S used the prurient content intelligently. If it was either lacking or overdone it would have detracted from the result.

    Of course, for some people there's no such thing as overdone. Did someone order a pizza?

    Well, when you're dealing with me you can just assume that position.
     
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  15. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    I've just watched the first three episodes of season 2 and in one of them, there are 4 or 5 sex scenes, one about among homosexuals. I think one was close to softcore porn, the one in which the hostage of the Starks sailed home and banged the ship whore.

    In these movies, it also depends who strips nude and in which context.

    Besdes:

    Rated for 12 years up: The good guy gets the girl
    Rated for 16 years up: The bad guy gets the girl
    Rated for 18 years up: Everybody gets the girl
     
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  16. Technomancer

    Technomancer IncGamers Member

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    Willow!! *SQUEE*

    I'm all for adult themes, but blatant pr0n exploitation is just cheap. Given that so many people behave like high-functioning primates, I guess I can't argue with the business reasons for the approach.

    You reminded me of another pet peeve of mine regarding fantasy movies: turning them into kids movies!! If you're gonna have humor, it needs to be adult/dark humor. Goodfellas and Army of Darkness were both hilarious, but no one can call them kid's movies. Being an out-blatant kid's movie was one of the biggest sins of SW: Ep1, embodied by Jar Jar. The first D&D movie was written for 12-year-olds (by 12-year-olds apparently). It has been encouraging to see newer fantasy fairy-tale based movies that are not out-blatantly childish, like Maleficent and Snow White. While not exactly "adult movies", they're decent and not embarrassing to watch.

    I know, I know, but your feelings aside, they are beloved by a LOT of people. I was just mentioning them to make my point. They are the main reason those novel franchises were so successful. The Greyhawk characters were never really all that fleshed out or pivotal to begin with and are me just nerding out a little bit. :D Of course people like the archetypes, but it's the characters that make them like those archetypes. How beloved would the aged, bearded wizard archetype be without Gandalf or Merlin? Would mighty barbarian warriors be as admired without Conan? Would space scoundrels be so totally kewl without Han Solo?

    Overall, I do agree though that inventing new characters from scratch would be best, but I was just working with the fact that apparently no one in Hollywood is left that is capable of such mystical feats of imagination.

    Actually, I totally agree with you. Spartacus was especially lurid to the point of causing me roll my eyes and caused my brother to eventually lose interest in the whole series. I even had a friend refer to it as gay porn. GoT is better but could get by just fine a with bit of a "show less, tell more" approach. Sansa's recent "honeymoon" turned a lot of stomachs and caused a bit of backlash though, even though the worst of it happened off screen. Another recent "incident" was the last episode (or pornisode) of Penny Dreadful. I've been liking this season so far (the main evil witch is ****ING EEEEVVVIIILLLL!!!!), but 5 minutes of porn toward the end was just eye-crossing. My respect for the show went down a notch. I'm not "shocked", I'm bored. The last bit with Dr. F was the only part that was approached tastefully and actually added something worthwhile to the story.

    It's called the internet people. If and when you want to see sex, it's all there (ALL OF IT, and for free if you're halfway intelligent), and is remarkably better. Maybe I'm just spoiled and am not being considerate of our less fortunate brothers and sisters who don't realize they can see as much sexytime as they can stomach (and of any variety they can stomach) any time they want, but I just find tastelessly jamming it into my TV shows redundant and distracting.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
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  17. jmervyn

    jmervyn IncGamers Member

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    True. GoT is on the excessive side, in reality.
    Yes, but there's "adult" and then there's "child-man", which sadly is where most of the energy goes.

    You can probably make comparisons between "Brothers Grimm" (Lena Headey!), "Hansel & Gretel", and "Van Helsing". All three were roughly the same genre (late medieval supernatural with steampunk flavor & mild comedy) and had decent casting. Two roughly the same year, none were significant box-office successes. However, the intricacy of the plot is practically straight line, with "Grimm" directed by the notorious (and beloved) Terry Gilliam, while "Van Helsing" was practically a Wolverine re-imagine. Point being, <all three> were juvenile to varying extent, and a studio has to ask whether it's worth paying extra for better actors and direction if they're still peddling the cinematic analogy of fart jokes.

    There's a reason Adam Sandler's a rich man. It's has nothing to do with an actual lack of talent or skill.

    That's where I think "adult" themes could come into play. All three movies had amazing women in them, but one must ask whether the studio's money was better spent on the mild sexuality they offered (Belluci's role in Grimm was almost a throwaway, IIRC), or if it would have been more advantageous to hire someone either incredible & young (too many pr0n hits for filter) or stunning & "old" who would do something much harder core yet also be able to carry their weight in a role.

    To see what I'm getting at, consider the difference with Coppola's Dracula ; Ryder does a light lesbian scene but most of the pr0n load is carried by the then-unknown Bellucci with two others and a B-lister named Sadie Frost. The material is well-trodden by comparison, and I don't know that Coppola is categorically a better director than Gilliam, but I wouldn't be surprised if Dracula grossed more than the other three combined**, and with less CGI. It's certainly the more memorable of the three.

    Once you go down the Joseph Campbell rabbit hole, there's no end to the reductive process. Han Solo is because Pirates were, and you can probably chase that back to the Biblical transcription of David vs. Saul.

    Quite true. Hope springs eternal though; Guardians of the Galaxy arrived from Netflix so I've got my weekend fambly movie lined up. The star is apparently doing the next re-hash of Jurassic... I wonder if Crichton is rolling in his grave?

    Just to chime in -

    True enough. I haven't actually watched B&S; the one I enjoyed was apparently "Gods of the Arena", with the lead who died suddenly and starred both Xena and one of my favorite British mystery actors.
    Now that I've seen the episode, I strongly suspect McCaskill's publicist told her to be outraged. It's a tamer scene than many.


    ** I don't feel like maths, am not versed in Hollywood fiscal matters, and it won't be a straight-line comparison, but:
    Grimm: $88M cost, $38M gross U.S.
    Hansel & Gretel: $50M cost, $55.7M gross U.S.
    Van Helsing: $160M cost, $120M gross U.S.
    Dracula: $40M cost, $82.5M gross U.S. and almost $216M worldwide.

    So if my glossing over the differences between 1992 and 2004 is ignored, of the three only H&S broke even with U.S. receipts, while Dracula eventually doubled the same metric.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
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  18. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged IncGamers Member

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    Good work, people.

    Guardians of the Galaxy - this one stole my jaw away. I was prepared to be underwhelmed, but by the end of the flick ... boy, were my pants wet. Excellent entertainment :)

    Hmm ... not only that, Vin Diesel has a perfectly good excuse for wooden acting in this one

    b'dum*tsh*
     
  19. jmervyn

    jmervyn IncGamers Member

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    Wait, what? He's the TREE? Wowza.

    I actually like Diesel, a lot - homeboy did good!



    Also, my dream-babe I cited as the "older" example was a bit player in one of his movies. The original title was... wait for it... Diablo.
     
  20. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged IncGamers Member

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    I'm a fan of Diesel, if I'm honest.
    I've liked him in almost every movie I've watched ... but then, I've only ever seen one Fast & Furious movie. Working my way through that franchise may well swing the balance the wrong way for him.
     

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