Moveon.org lies to get cash

[AeroJonesy]

Moveon.org lies to get cash

Moveon.org has sent a lovely email:

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Dear MoveOn member, [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Did you see how many Republicans voted for President Obama's stimulus package in the House yesterday?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]None. Seriously, not a single one.1[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Americans voted overwhelmingly for change in November. We voted for an end to the partisan bickering and political games that are destroying our politics. And President Obama bent over backwards to get House Republicans to craft a bipartisan bill, to no avail.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]As the bill moves to the Senate, we need bipartisan support, or the stimulus won't pass. Senate Republicans need to know they have a clear choice: support a stimulus package that will put millions of Americans back to work, or continue to play the games that got us into this mess.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]We've put together a powerful new ad to pressure the key senators. Can you chip in $25 to get it on the air immediately?
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]https://pol.moveon.org/donate/recovery_ad.html?id=15461-10600060-TpE8hAx&t=3
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]President Obama spent hours meeting with Republican leaders personally. He made painful compromises to win them over.2
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]But Republicans refused to play ball. They're insisting on a plan that doesn't invest a cent in green jobs or health care or education. They just want more tax cuts for the rich and for corporations, even though that's part of what got us into this mess.3
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]GOP leaders will get their way—unless we can convince a few Republican senators who are on the fence.

[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Remind me how the bill won't pass unless they get Republic support. Majority in House? Check. Majority in Senate? Check. Democrat in White House? Check.
[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]And since does being "bipartisan" mean "my way or the highway"? I sure hope people are pleased with the dirty liars they've voted into office. Looks to me like that's the only change we got...
[/FONT]

 

[BobCox2]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

Whats the difference? Swapped the old crooks for new ones.

 

[PFSS]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

Remind me how the bill won't pass unless they get Republic support. Majority in House? Check. Majority in Senate? Check. Democrat in White House? Check.

Haven't the Republicans been using that fillibuster thingey quite a bit lately?

And since does being "bipartisan" mean "my way or the highway"? I sure hope people are pleased with the dirty liars they've voted into office. Looks to me like that's the only change we got.

To be fair - both sides are viewing 'bi-partisan' as meaning 'the other side should agree with us'.

 

[BobCox2]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

I hate to repeat myself but...

 

[maccool]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

Remind me how the bill won't pass unless they get Republic support. Majority in House? Check. Majority in Senate? Check. Democrat in White House? Check.

Filibuster as an option. Check. Yeah, it's a possible.

And since does being "bipartisan" mean "my way or the highway"?

Since long before you've been alive. You're way too altruistic.

 

[CyberHawk]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

Well I think he means as in Obama preaching to us about how he and his fellow Dems are gonna reach across the isle, work with other parties/etc/etc/hope/change/spongebob...

to get up there and bam....all Dems, screw everyone else kinda attitude. When asked what if the Reps do not fall in line and go for the bill...he replied it will get passed. Well yeaaa, sure it will, but you said.....

 

[Halifax Donair]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

i guess that demotes them to the reliability level of fox or cnn.

 

[PFSS]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

Well I think he means as in Obama preaching to us about how he and his fellow Dems are gonna reach across the isle, work with other parties/etc/etc/hope/change/spongebob...

to get up there and bam....all Dems, screw everyone else kinda attitude. When asked what if the Reps do not fall in line and go for the bill...he replied it will get passed. Well yeaaa, sure it will, but you said.....

What specific areas of compromise should the Democrats have had to make in order for this to be Bi-Partisan?

What % of Republican (who the People have voted into the minority) demands should they have had to meet? 10%, 20%, 100%?

 

[AeroJonesy]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

What specific areas of compromise should the Democrats have had to make in order for this to be Bi-Partisan?

What % of Republican (who the People have voted into the minority) demands should they have had to meet? 10%, 20%, 100%?

Well the bill was drafted without input from House Republicans. Pelosi never even met with them. That pretty much says it all.

 

[PFSS]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

Well the bill was drafted without input from House Republicans. Pelosi never even met with them. That pretty much says it all.

Still - during the debate after the drafting - what portion of the Republican demands would have to be met before the bill would be considered "Bi-Partisan"?

If both the Democrats and Republicans refuse to give way on an issue who is the one not being bi-partisan?

I'm not thrilled with the way this was done and have doubts about the effectiveness of such a bill - but bi-partisanship requires both sides to make concessions, what is a concession over an issue is not acceptable to either side?

 

[Dondrei]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

Pfft, bipartisanship on this issue is pretty much irrelevant. Neither side has any idea what to do so it's just another competition to see who can manage to score the most points out of it.

And since does being "bipartisan" mean "my way or the highway"?

Uh, since always? Also prominently displayed in the last two terms?

Well I think he means as in Obama preaching to us about how he and his fellow Dems are gonna reach across the isle, work with other parties/etc/etc/hope/change/spongebob...

to get up there and bam....all Dems, screw everyone else kinda attitude. When asked what if the Reps do not fall in line and go for the bill...he replied it will get passed. Well yeaaa, sure it will, but you said.....

So... exactly like the last Administration?

Hasn't every single President in history said they want to reach across the aisle?

 

[CyberHawk]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

So... exactly like the last Administration?

Hasn't every single President in history said they want to reach across the aisle?

Oh really...so Republicans reigned supreme for the last 8 years uh....really?


Has every past President said that, probabaly, has every President done so? I think name one that hasn't, might be easier. Casue honestly I don't know.

But in BO's defense, he just got started so, he may do so more eventually. But in the case of this package trying to get passed, I would think having both parties somewhat satisfied would've been better for him and the Dems.

Imo a "better" leader would've, even if his party out-numbered the other, would be concerned about the lesser party ideals, and would be extremetly concerned when 100% + some of his own party vote against him.
I would take the bill back to the table and try to get a portion of both parties to agree..otherwie its a one party bill that is kinda a make or break ordeal.
If it goes good...Dems look very in control and know what to do to help this country, Reps would look terrible. Goes badly....well pretty much the opposite.
Together would be better for everyone. But of course that brings up completely new situations. Basically a never ending cycle, while the average citizen still loses, while they bicker.

 

[PFSS]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

Oh really...so Republicans reigned supreme for the last 8 years uh....really?

I forget the exact election years but didn't they have a 6 year run with control of the White House, the Senate, the House of Representatives and the Supreme Court?

If I'm wrong on that I'm open to correction.

 

[AeroJonesy]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

If both the Democrats and Republicans refuse to give way on an issue who is the one not being bi-partisan?

Neither side is being bipartisan. But only one side is pretending they are. It's not their actions that bother me - they have political parties for a reason, after all - it's that they lie about what they are doing. When the GOP ran the government, they were equally as partisan. But they didn't pretend like they weren't.

I just want to hold Pelosi to her promise:

"Elect us, hold us accountable, and make a judgment and then go from there. But I do tell you that if the Democrats win and have substantial majorities, Congress of the United States will be more bipartisan,"

I don't mind people I disagree with, but I hate liars, no matter what side of the aisle they fall on.

 

[Dondrei]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

Oh really...so Republicans reigned supreme for the last 8 years uh....really?

Yeah, they really sought compromises.

Neither side is being bipartisan. But only one side is pretending they are.

Oh please, Bush said he was going to mend bridges at the start of both terms.

 

[AeroJonesy]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

Oh please, Bush said he was going to mend bridges at the start of both terms.

He actually did at the start of his first term. The biggest sponsor of No Child Left Behind was Ted Kennedy.

 

[AeroJonesy]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

More entertainment!

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Dear MoveOn member, [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]President Obama has a plan to create or save 3 million jobs. But did you hear what Rush Limbaugh said?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]"I hope he fails."1[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Limbaugh might just get his way: he already helped convince every single House Republican to vote against the bill.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Now his listeners are calling Congress to oppose the stimulus plan, and senators are mostly hearing from folks who oppose Obama's plan. The calls are scaring swing-vote senators—even Senate Democrats are saying they may oppose the stimulus.2
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]The vote is expected any day. We've got to turn the tide quickly. Can you call and ask Senator George Voinovich to support President Obama's economic stimulus plan?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif] Senator George Voinovich
Phone: 202-224-3353
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Then, please report your call by clicking here:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]http://pol.moveon.org/call?tg=FSOH_1&cp_id=842&id=15479-10600060-aFTPfmx&t=3[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Obama's stimulus plan will help real people, not the Wall Street banks. It's not perfect, but it's targeted on stimulating the economy immediately and investing wisely in long-term growth:3
[/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]
  [*] Millions of green jobs to double our clean energy production in three years.4
  [*] Affordable health care for the unemployed.5
  [*] The biggest investment in education since World War II—enough to "avert literally hundreds of thousands of teacher layoffs."6 [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Almost 200 economists from across the political spectrum sent an urgent letter to Congress endorsing the stimulus plan. They write:
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]"The plan proposes important investments that can start to overcome the nation's damaging loss of jobs by saving or creating millions of jobs and put the United States back onto a sustainable long-term growth path. We do not have the luxury of a lengthy debate over the best course of action. This legislation may not be enough to solve all the economy's problems, but it is urgently needed and an important step in the right direction."7
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]
Rush Limbaugh and other right-wingers don't think the government should help people survive tough economic times. And they don't want Obama to gain momentum for other progressive goals, like ending the war and making sure everyone gets health care.

Please call and ask Senator George Voinovich to support President Obama's economic stimulus plan. [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif] Senator George Voinovich
Phone: 202-224-3353
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]After you call, let us know here:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]http://pol.moveon.org/call?tg=FSOH_1&cp_id=842&id=15479-10600060-aFTPfmx&t=4[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Thanks for all you do.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]–Noah, Ilyse, Matt, Tanya and the rest of the team[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]P.S. You can read the complete legislative text of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 at:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]http://www.finance.senate.gov/sitepages/legislation.htm
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Sources:
1. "Dittoheads," Americans United for Change," January 30, 2009
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51129&id=15479-10600060-aFTPfmx&t=5[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]2. "Sen. Conrad: 'I'd have a very hard time voting' for recovery package as it stands," ThinkProgress, January 30, 2009
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/30/conrad-stimulus/[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]"Nelson 'Undecided' On Recovery Plan: 'I Don't Even Know How Many Democrats Will Vote For It As It Stands'," ThinkProgress, January 30, 2009
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/30/nelson-stimulus-bill/[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]3. "GOP may vote no, but economists back Obama stimulus," McClatchy Newspapers, January 27, 2009
http://www.bradenton.com/916/story/1199058.html
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]4. "American Recovery and Reinvestment Act," Speaker Nancy Pelosi, January 27, 2009
http://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/legislation?id=0273[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]"American Recovery and Reinvestment Act," Senate Finance Committee, February 2, 2009
http://www.finance.senate.gov/sitepages/legislation.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]5. Ibid.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]6. "Stimulus Plan Would Provide Flood of Aid to Education," The New York Times, January 27, 2009
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/education/28educ.html[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]7. "Letter to Congress: Economists Across the Spectrum Endorse Stimulus Package," Center for American Progress, January 27, 2009
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51130&id=15479-10600060-aFTPfmx&t=6

[/FONT]

 

[krischan]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

The democrats have a majority in both houses, that means the republicans have to accept what's offered to them or to deny it - when reducing it to a rep vs. dem issue. If the Obama offers participation, but the republicans are unhappy with the fact that in the end their consent isn't needed, they should perhaps simply say "You should do it like this and that, but it's all your decision and responsibility". That would be completely OK, but if Obama is successful with his plans and the republicans played no role in them, all the fame (and thus the voters) will go to the democrats and that's what the issue is about for a couple of people, after all.

 

[Tanooki]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

Exactly, but like the first bail-outs that didn't do much, Republicans are aware this one will fail as well. I believe the Democrats are aware it'll fail as well, or they'd be passing it without making a huge fuss that the Republicans didn't support it.

It looks like they're already trying to share the blame instead of attempting to take all the glory.

 

[jmervyn]

Re: Moveon.org lies to get cash

Whats the difference? Swapped the old crooks for new ones.

Not so much. Tom Delay was hounded from office for next to no reason, but the pack of jackals in power now have been there for quite some time.

Filibuster as an option. Check. Yeah, it's a possible.

It's a possible that I could fly if I jumped from a plane at 50,000 feet, as well. But it's still pretty unlikely (maybe if I got one of those neato jet-wing thingies)...

Oh please, Bush said he was going to mend bridges at the start of both terms.

And Kennedy wasn't the only example of his attempts to do so. If you could be honest about it :rolf: you would conclude that the immense majority of hostile partisanship was unilateral. The Democrat party was screaming for Bush's blood before he was sworn in the first time, or have you forgotten about how the election was "stolen"? Any pretense they made at bipartisanship for the good of the nation was a subterfuge (as has been repeatedly proven).

It looks like they're already trying to share the blame instead of attempting to take all the glory.

Quite so; there was a bipartisan vote <against> the grotesquerie that the Progressives are so happy about. The resentment against the Republicans is that they weren't willing to whip out their schlongs for Pelosi to hack off. This was purely a matter of wanting cover for despicable behavior - expect much more of the same.