More kiddie problems


Diabloii.Net Member
More kiddie problems

Here we go again..more problems at school for my son.

Last Friday the school had a book fair and I gave Liam $10.00 to spend. I told him that if he couldn't find any books he wanted that he should look for a book to read to the first graders and one for his sister. Liam volunteers 2 days a week reading to some first graders with learning disabilities. He gives up his recess for it. When he got home, he had one book and no change. I asked him about it and he said that one of the kids in his class wanted a book so Liam gave him some money. This boy is not a buddy of Liam's, in fact I never heard his name mentioned before. I asked if Liam was bullied into giving up his money and he said "no". I was still concerned however.

Today, I get a call from the assistant principal regarding Liam. She told me that Liam's teacher approached her this afternoon about an episode he had today. He was supposed to have a project done for his group today, he didn't have it finished (he was absent from school 2 days last week and he said he didn't get the assignment). The assistant principal told me that during class he made motions like he was trying to choke himself. I was also told that on Friday, he said he wanted to kill himself.

Keep in mind, that at home, he is a happy little guy for the most part. He has some down days, but they are few and far between.

What infuriates me is that NO ONE bothered to call me on Friday when he said he wanted to kill himself. The school knows full well that he is in counselling. The phone call I got today was at 2:30. I asked the assistant principal why the teacher didn't call me..why didn't she send a note home? I stressed how important it is for me to know if something like that is going on in school. I also told her of my concern over Liam's money. She had no answer for me and told me the teacher would call me later that afternoon.

When his teacher called, I asked her why she didn't call me. She hemmed and hawed around and never really gave me an answer. I told her that if anything ever happens like that again, she better call me pronto. I then asked her about the money situation. I told her the boy's name and she immediately said "Oh no, he wouldn't do anything like that. He is a ritchous, Christian boy". I was dumbfounded. Here a parent comes to a teacher with a concern and she is telling me that no way it could happen because the boy is a Christian.

I am so furious with the school. I would take him out and enroll him somewhere else, but Liam doesn't want to leave his friends.

This is what I am planning on doing now:

1. I want a copy of his scholastic file. I want documentation of everything I have done over the past couple years (if they are still in his file)

2. I am going to enlist the help of his counsellor. I hope that she will call the school and stress how important it is that we be kept abreast of any depressed behavior.

3. I am seriously considering calling Children's Services on the teacher. If a child threatens suicide and she can't even contact the parents, that is neglect.

Any ideas of what else I can do?


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You could have Liam switched to a different class. A more responsible teacher that you can talk to. Talk to the other teachers in his grade. Tell them the problem you are having. Find a teacher you can trust to call you if anything of this sort happends again.

If he doesnt want to switch school then this is the only realistic thing you can do to get him away from that particular teacher.


Definatly try to talk to Liam about his problems. Or maybe if hes joking about killing himself or not.


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Zodiac, your responses aren't extreme enough. The teachers are required BY LAW to report any students in danger of harming themselves or others to the appropriate authorities. The teacher has violated the law and as such, must be brought to task.

Your first step should be to set up an immediate meeting with the principal, the teacher, and yourself. Bring the counselor if possible, but if not, do it yourself. Leave Liam out of it for now. Don't let them ******** their way out of meeting with you. This is your kid we're talking about. Then sit them down as propose the following scenario: your son actually harms/kills himself. How would the school board and the state feel if they knew that this could have been prevented? How would the media look on those people? How would their funding be effected? Remind them of their obligations to you and to Liam. Get their promise, in writing, that if anything even remotely like this happens in the future, that they will call you as soon as is humanly possible.

Your next goal should be to get Liam to stop protecting his "friends." Anyone who is stealing money from your kid is not a "friend" of his, no matter how desparate Liam may be for companionship. Better stop this kind of crap early or else he'll end up doing all sorts of stupid illegal crap in the name of "friendship." You're going to have to deal with him strongly. Use whatever metaphor you need. I'm sure he's seen someone in a similar situation. Explain that true friends don't steal and don't make conditional statements re: friendship and money.

Contact the school board and express your concerns over the teacher's and principal's behavior. Make yourself a pest. Show up in person at the next meeting, at the superintendant's office if you need to. Get known.

You need to be strong about this, Zod. You're a friggin' top, for chrissakes. Get in there and fight for your kid. Call every day until you get satisfaction. Show up at random times to observe the class and how Liam is ACTUALLY being treated. Don't call ahead of time; you have the right to be there. Call a lawyer and discuss your options if you can. If not a lawyer, then use the counselor as a resource for getting what you want. But do is QUICKLY. Don't wait for them to do something because they won't.

And for his own sake, start looking into better schools. I have the feeling this will only get worse. He won't necessarily lose all of his friends. He will make new ones, and it will be easier earlier. Trust me.


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It's really hard to say, Zodiac. From my perspective, I think there is more to this story than meets the eye. Children are children, and sometimes they might say something so wild that you might not take them seriously. The teacher might have really guessed something was wrong upon the second incident, and went to the assistant principal in hopes to see if he could see what the next step was. There is no way the teacher should know how to act if a case like this happens, Zodiac, without them being given directions on what to do.

Depression is a sad, sad thing. I'm sorry your son has to go through that, but maybe there is something more that Liam needs? I think you should really have a heart to heart talk about what is bothering him, since I personally never felt that a counselor is a good enough person to help guide a child. Maybe the school is going too slowly for him, or his self esteem is low, or something of that matter? Since he's happy for the most part at home, that's an almost sure sign that his unhappiness is coming from outside the home.

As regards to the money issue... maybe Liam is just a kind, giving, person. Maybe the child is really poor, and Liam felt bad and helped him out? I wouldn't know what to say, really. Best of luck with things.


Diabloii.Net Member are right. But, they reported it once, and it came back to bite them in the butt. The investigator from Children's Services reported that this was an issue from school...the counselor reports that this is an issue revolving around school. It is not a problem with his home life. When he is probed about his home life..he lights up. He talks about how much he loves much fun he has with Samara. It is a proven fact that his problems stem from school. Of course they want to sweep it under the rug. I would imagine why this teacher chose to sit on her butt and not say anything is the finding of fact on their previous investigation. I plan to have a session with Liam's counsellor alone tomorrow. She has been seeing him for close to 3 months. She knows that his problems stem from school. I need to have her on my side. I want either a conference in person or via telephone between Karen, the principal and myself.

Smelly..whenever a child threatens suicide you believe them. I can't sweep his feelings under a rug..real or not.
Have you, by any chance, sat in on his classes at all? I know you probably can't take the time from work, but I've had to do that on occasion in bygone days. He'll know you are there, of course; but after a while he'll sort of forget if you sit quietly way in the back of the room, and you'll get to see how he interacts with other children. Follow him around, at a distance, to see how other kids treat him. Show up unexpectedly.
The problem is, all the information you are getting is slanted in some way, not necessarily intentionally, by either him, the teacher, principal, or whatever. Some of this stuff, you need to see for yourself. And it will happen in another school too if you can't change his approach to things or find out what's really going on.
Liam sounds like he has deep problems and is unfortunately an easy mark for others. The teacher seriously slipped up on this one and I agree with Anyee here, you have to get screaming, raging tough now.


Diabloii.Net Member
Let me say, Zodiac, that the bile in that post isn't directed at you, but towards the school administration. I'm all for finessing things, but lackluster school administration can make your child's life...and thus yours...absolutely miserable. Whack them with a stick if needed. This has been an ongoing issue for a year or more, if I'm not mistaken, and it needs to be addressed before he hits puberty and everything heads south regardless. ;)

I was in a situation for a long time where a student or 5 made my life absolute hell. Swapping schools is really what helped me the most. I should have done it earlier, and god knows my parents wanted to, but I made them leave me in my old school until I got so miserable that I couldn't take it anymore. Liam is 10. He doesn't have the capacity, really, to plan for the future and can't envision a life that is different, without his current friends. But Zod, honey, you can't let him stay in this school. They're failing him in too many ways.


Diabloii.Net Member
The ball is now rolling. I spent over two hours today drafting a three page letter outlining everything that has happened over the last two years. This letter is being hand delivered to:
1. Teacher
2. Principal
3. Assistant Principal

This letter is being sent certified/return receipt requested to:
1. Superintendent
2. President of the Board of Education for his school system
3. The investigator from Children's Services

I also sent the letter via e-mail to the State Board of Education.

His counsellor is calling the school today to voice her displeasure.

If all of this fails, I will go to the newspapers and television. Perhaps if the residents read of how poor this system is, no more levies will pass. I don't think the administration wants that to happen.

Perhaps I may contact the ACLU. I know that sounds silly, but he is being deprived his right to attend school free from harrassment.


Diabloii.Net Member
You go get em Zoddy. After all the stuff Liam's gone through I can't get over that idiot of a teacher behaving like that. She needs a damn good thrashing. As does her superiors for their idiocy too. I think as far as advice goes Babes I can't really offer anything that hasn't already been said. But I can tell ya if it were Emily she wouldn't be going back to that poor excuse for a school unless a hell of alot changed. That teacher being fired included.

Gah, I swear, it makes me so ticked to see decent kids getting screwed over, especially by the people who're supposed to be helping and nurturing them. It's bad enough when other children are bullying, etc, but when the so called authority figures don't or won't do anything, that's just the epitome of wrong. For all she knew he could have been completely serious and done something as soon as he left her class. Like you said, anytime a child, or anyone I believe, voices that they want to die, it should be taken seriously until proven otherwise.

You give Liam some *Huggles* from me, and you need *Huggles* too. You nail those bastards to the wall if need be Hunny, go full on MamaBear on some butt :). Better that than Liam, or any child, being depressed or bullied because of some people's stupidity or that they just don't care. And knock them one for me too while you're at it ;)

*Huge Supportive Huggles*


Diabloii.Net Member
Ive made mention of killing myself 1,000,000,000 times as of this:

Im gonna kill myself!

Oh man its on now.

Not really the school is just over reactive. I guess they "have to be" but kids say a lot of stupid **** and they dont really know why, they dont really know what it means or the consequences therafter.


Zod, what meds is liam on? I posted before about possible sucidal tendencies being induced by certain meds...


Diabloii.Net Member
swami said:
Zod, what meds is liam on? I posted before about possible sucidal tendencies being induced by certain meds...
Currently he is on Prozac. We are on the waiting list to see the psyciatrist to make sure he is on the correct medine..or if he needs to be on any at all.

To be honest, I felt pressured by the school and Children's Services to get him on the medication. I got the impression from the school, his pediatrician and the case worker that I would not be a fit mother if I didn't try the medicine. That whole thinking goes against what I believe in, but faced with the alternative of being found unfit...I chose to put him on Prozac.
This is sounding more and more like you may be needing a lawyer. Damn, that a mother should be pushed so far to just try to do a decent job of bringing up her children.
Perhaps another doctor should look Liam over, independently of the school and having no connections with the school, either. Maybe he doesn't need Prozac, or anything, except a chance to be himself in a good school with dedicated teachers.
Good luck with everything. Keep us informed, will you please? You're part of the forum family and so is Liam.


Diabloii.Net Member
I really appreciate everyone's support. It is very difficult to deal with the teachers and the school. I am most certainly prepared to contact an attorney if need be. There have been so many suspect comments and behavior from the school. One that really sticks out in my mind is their reluctance to work with Karen (Liam's counselor) and myself. Having a meeting is not necessary.

Everything that I do to build up Liam's self-esteem is just crumbled when he goes to school. I know that he needs to work on not being as sensitive as he is, but for god's sake..he is 11. At his age, he doesn't need that stress in his life.

I will keep everyone who is interested posted on what happens after all those letters I wrote are read. To be honest, I am not expecting a response from anyone.

Sat, I would like nothing better than to have that teacher disciplined. But she has tenure. She was teaching elementary school when I attended elementary school. They are not going to do one thing to her. I can bet my life on that.


Every kid has some problem more or less back in their childhood. It is a matter of time when they snap out of it.

I talked to myself a lot when I was a child, cause I have no siblings. But lately, the situation has changed a bit. But threaten to kill one self at such young age is not good. I hope the situation gets better for Liam.


Diabloii.Net Member
Get a good tape-recorder and bring it to every meeting from now on. (Do tell them you are bringing it.) The usual routine for schools is to make all kinds of promises and not follow through, saying you're lying about what they said when it doesn't appear in the IEP. Proof of what they said means they can't do that kind of ********. Sometimes just the threat of a tape-recorder makes them piss their pants. You need to watch out for a few things: They will try to make you "forget" to turn on the tape recorder by distracting you, or have a convenient "accident" that shuts it off. They may also make the meeting drag on longer than the tape lasts with chit-chat beforehand and then make all kinds of promises once they're no longer being recorded. Turn it on before you even get in the building and make sure none of the schools' people get anywhere near it.



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Good idea, Arokthis. I received 3 phone calls today regarding my letter. I really did loose my cool with Liam's teacher. The bad part is when I get really angry, I sound like a blithering idiot. My mind works 10 times faster than my mouth. She told me regarding the issue on Friday, she talked to Liam alone and felt he was OK. I then yelled into the phone that she is not qualified to make that decision. I then received dead air on her end. Previous to speaking with her, Liam's math teacher called me. I asked him if he ever saw any depressive behavior. He told me he had heard about it..but has never seen anything. I asked Liam's primary teacher why he only exhibits this type of behavior in her class...she had no response.

Eventually I calmed down and we discussed everyone getting together for a meeting. She said "That would be fine with me, but I have to run it past the principal and vice principal..if you know what I mean." I then replied that if that was not OK with the principal, I would have to take this a step further, if you know what I mean. I do believe that point was taken because within 5 mins. of haning up with her..the principal called. I chewed her out for a good 15 mins. I told her I have no problems contacting Children's Services and an attorney if need be. The end of the conversation is that we are all going to sit down and come up with a plan to help Liam. The term we all includes his counselor. I also told her that I would not be making anymore phone calls to them. I will be contacting Children's Services and/or the police if one more thing happens.
You're good, Zodiac. Keep up that fire and you will win this one. I know winning isn't your game, helping Liam is, but you need to beat those people in order to help Liam.


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I am very curious now. I had a meeting with Liam's other teachers and they all say he contributes and seems to be really happy in class. But his main teacher says he is morose in her class. I did really loose my temper with her and told her exactly what type of person I thought she was. This teacher NEVER smiles. I told her I watched her when I went to Liam's valentine's day party (they did eventually have one) and she never smiled at any of the kids. Actually, she never spoke to any of them. I told her I would be depressed if I were in her class. Also, she told me that she took Liam aside that Friday (when he said he wanted to kill himself) and talked to him. To her, he seemed fine. I actually yelled into the phone that she was not qualified to make that decision.

As it stands now, the school, Liam's counselor and myself are having a meeting on Monday. Funny thing though, during my conference, I was asked if I knew what all was going to be discussed. Not being a big dummy head, I played stupid. I want to see those bastards sweat. This time, its not just a parent..there will be an impartial 3rd party there.

Hopefully, this will be a productive meeting. I have a list of things I want ironed out such as how bullies are treated, what happens when Liam exhibits this type of behavior.

Can anyone else give me any more topics I could spring on them?