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Monster Iron Maiden

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by HR-Tecira, Mar 29, 2004.

  1. HR-Tecira

    HR-Tecira IncGamers Member

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    Monster Iron Maiden

    I was wondering if anyone knows exactly how IM now works in normal/nm/hell when cast by the oblivion knights.

    Main thing which I want to know is if you are using a high damage weapon to berserk with can you still kill yourself in one hit if you get imed in the 3 difficulties.

    I am guessing you can since I believe that berserk does the physical damage of the weapon and adds the magic damage on top of it. (using a 466 max damage weapon. I am sure that if there is might or conc around that it would definately kill. The listed damage for a normal attack is over 2k with just my str and sword mastery applying.)

    I still can't figure out what they were thinking when they put the oblivion knights in ws3 and throne. Not like it is harder playing a melee char to begin with without having a monster that can cause you to 1 hit kill yourself if you make one mistake around them. I personally feel like monster IM should be removed or severely nerfed. I don't remember any 1 hit kills from IM back in 1.09 at least. Yes if you WW through monsters in chaos you were asking to die but not just attacking with conc etc. You would have time to stop attacking after getting imed before it would kill you. /rant
     
  2. Christor

    Christor IncGamers Member

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    As far as I know, berserk converts all physical damage to magic damage, meaning you would take no damage to yourself if attacking when IM'd.
     
  3. Kelicc

    Kelicc IncGamers Member

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    Christor is right. Berserk takes all physical damage, including any modifiers that are received (such as boosts from might or fanatacism auras) and converts it all to magic damage. IM does not hurt if you use Berserk.
     
  4. SkaMan

    SkaMan IncGamers Member

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    Although, I do believe that damage that is added by an item will remain as physical damage when using beserk, ie travs.

    This is the conclusion I came to after being IM'd, zerking, and still seeing the "thorns" damage graphic display on my barb, and still losing small amounts of life. Dunno if damage added by jewels would produce the same effect though...
     
  5. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    The IM animation always shows regardless if you recieve damage from it.

    This would be pretty simple to test, any Necro (built properly) has 1 point in IM to get to LR, and he can IM you while hostile and you use a small damage weapon and zerk something. Do it with and without charms.

    I dont doubt you taking damage while using ZERK while Imed but I dont think it is due to the attack. Reason i say this is my first 1.09 Xpac Barb was using an upped Crimor Legend which is insainly fast and I zerked away like a mad man and he had some damage charms.

    Also, I have seen several Barbs with a BoTD zerking freely while Imed in my many runs.


    IM in Norm with crushing, and probably in NM also can easily provide a one hit death using concentrate in 1.09 as i have seen it several times.

    The problem, and really the only problem with Im now compared to them is it seems leech cant help you. It use to be possible to take a 6 socket weapon and skull it out and go WW all day long in CS in Classic as long as the rest of your gear was also loaded with leech. This did two things, lowing damage to around 700-900 IIRC and uping your leech from say 30% to 48% or so. Currently this is impossible to do now and that BLOWS.

    I ran thousands of CS runs in 1.09 with a 179 11% LL Mart, Sigs, (2) 6 LL rings for 33% or so LL. Now, I couldnt WW freely but I could WW one target while IMed with no risk of dieing to IM......I could of however died if something big hit me right after as I would loose about 1/4-1/3 of my life doing this. The thing was you would visually see your life bounce as you WW thru the targt, but now it just bottoms out in a heartbeat.

    I lost a 73 Barb in NM WS2 to IM in two hits using lvl 1 Concentrate and about 38% LL (tals, sigs, (2) rings and a dual leech ammy). He was using that Uni Battle Hammer and had no gear adding damage. his life never rose and in my lulled to sleep sha i was basically watching Blizz waste everything i didnt stop after the first swing.

    Personally I simply feel there is an error somewhere compared to 1.09 with leech in countering IM.

    one final note, if 1.09 if a Necro casted Life Tap in CS and I had my usual leech i could use any damage weapon I wanted and WW freely only to see very minor life fluxing pretty comparable to cowing. Life Tap seems to help, but it doesnt fix the issue in 1.10.

    To answer the question, i dont know squat about how it is suppose to be.

    IMO, IM beleongs in WS and so do Gloams and all the other Nasties. The screwed up though as thier should be Frenzytaurs, Moonlords, Random bosses of more devistation. Call me a masicast but simple fact is this ladder is full of LIVE people, most of the dead died to some hack or lag, or dueling do to boredom. Nobody is really dieing in WS anymore.
     
  6. baalos

    baalos IncGamers Member

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    I was playing my barb in hell act 4 just yesterday. I used zerk during the whole act and did not have any problems, at least self inflected ones. I was using doom bringer and a gherks shield.
     
  7. CoonerTheRed

    CoonerTheRed IncGamers Member

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    Tecira, might you be thinking of vengeance? Veng adds it's magic damage on top of the physical damage, so in nm cs a pali can fairly easily kill himself with max fanat, merc's might, and 1 big swing...

    now that one annoys me- the pali's only way of getting good elem damage (without maxing another skill entirely) now just gets him killled... i guess it's helpful for phys immunes... :rant:
     
  8. Chiller_babe

    Chiller_babe IncGamers Member

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    You can always do what i did and build a tesladin with a shaeled Diggler on switch:)

    You do like 6 physical damge and look completely crazy Zealing away with a weapon so small it is almost invisible (has ITD too)

    Chill
     
  9. HR-Tecira

    HR-Tecira IncGamers Member

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    I just know I have seemed to take damage in the past zerking with IM so wanted to verify how zerk and im really work. If that is the case then that means my friend that died while using a double shaeled bonehew must have missed the switch to zerk. (He thought he had switched from conc to zerk before he died. So I was thinking it was the physical damage of the weapon combined with a might merc that killed him.)
     
  10. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    That is good for a Teslidin but not an Avenger!

    Good option for an avenger is a weapon switch but of another fashion, one with tons of elementa damage!

    If you are melee with a party pick up something to throw, hell its better than being a freaking leech. Those Barbs can afford 1 point in double throw and Swing. If nothing else throw your BO weapons!!! Ya sure it doenst do much but by God do something damnit!

    For an Avenger or any Pally i suggest using alternate skills in CS and there are many things that can do a lot in there.

    Mediation
    Santurary
    Holy Freeze
    Holy Shock
    CLEANSING......good choice, shortens curses
    Resists

    Stick Vengance as your attack and be very deliberate on your attacks to click each swing like you first did when you didnt knwo you could hold down and swing a bunch you noob!

    Most Pallys have tons of +skills and most all of thsoe aruras with one point in them can do a lot for a group.
     
  11. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    I assure you that he screwed up!

    The Barb i mentioned above loosing in 2 hits lvl 1 Conc had been zerking all day with no troubles using a Ward Shield so basically no block, was intended to be a Maul Barb so no Dex and he had about 180 strenght at the time. His Zerk damage was higher than Conc.

    If you want to test this I have a Necro and ill be happy to IM you and let ya hit something in rouges just dont hit me! He has lvl one "invested" IM ill just remove the +gear and you buy some small damage weapon to swing.
     
  12. Rava

    Rava IncGamers Member

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    Tec-

    Zerking should be safe when IM'd .. as long as you have mana for each swing.
    I lost an ** barb tanking in the CS (looted luckily) because I was IM'd and a boss pack of Oblivian Knights just offsceen nailed me with mana burn in mid-swing. The next swing counted as a normal attack and Bam .. deeds.

    Saw the same thing happen to Luke in WSK .. IM'd and a gloam zapped his mana .. dead barb.

    not sure if anyone else has met this fate but it does happen.
     
  13. fe-crazywolf

    fe-crazywolf IncGamers Member

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    This probably could have happened to a decent high lvl ladder barb pure_warrior twice because he tends to just use zerk and some conc, he was level 97 the first time he died from iron maiden and then 96, died the same way, so I'm assuming that he just lost all his mana from mana burn and the zerk turned into a regular hit, When a melee character has iron maiden animation over their head the best option is to just play it safe and go to town and get rid of the curse.
     
  14. HR-Tecira

    HR-Tecira IncGamers Member

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    Right did not even think about mana burn, etc. That is probably what happened to Steve. I can't recall now what else was there, so it is possible that he did switch to zerk and got gloam drained or mana burned to zero mana and it was a normal attack that killed him.

    I did do a trial off ladder to satisfy my own curiocity and the final trial was with my old Doombringer zerker barb. I had my conc pally there giving him lvl 30 ish conc and IMed with my old nec (was about lvl 9 im from + skills). The final result was the zerker took no damage while zerking with im. So that is good to know. Means yes still need to be cautious so don't get imed/drained and kill myself with a normal attack but I can actually attack with oks around.

    I have 1 point in warcry so that is what I do when I am IM'ed til I can clear the curse. I figure stunning the monsters and remaining a tank for the sorcs etc is still useful :). Just was a bit overly paranoid after that death. Should have done the trial back after my friend died when he thought he was zerking then would have known it was either a case of not switching from conc to zerk or a no mana attack that became a normal attack instead of a zerk. But did not really think about using my multi comp set up that way hehe.
     
  15. HelzCaretaker

    HelzCaretaker IncGamers Member

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    its simple answer no it doesn't. If you did any physical dmg then you would have leech, but you don't so therefore you cannot be hurt by ironman since there is no leech because all the dmg is magical.
     
  16. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    I would still like to know why things that could be done in 1.09 dont work now in regards to IM.

    IIRC the only changes were 100% critical was removed. Since leech and damage are dirrectly related I just dont see why the "big leech" setup cant tank while IMed when it use to.

    Frankly this is one of the main reasons I am no longer playing Classic as one of my favorite things to do was CS a Barb flying around like a nut using short controlled WW's and loosing 90% of your life occasionally but if played well could be done. This part of my fun is totally gone and it is rather disheartening!
     

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