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Mike Huang comments

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by DWS, Jul 14, 2008.

  1. DWS

    DWS IncGamers Member

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    Mike Huang comments

    I found this guys comments to be somewhat interesting and not altogether surprising.

    I detect an hint of what may have transpired in the mass exodus of people who made D1. I won't get into details about the game that Flagship made, or the one NCsoft made, however I do find it very interesting that one succeeded while one flopped.

    Anyways, the subject of this is the note from Huang regarding design flaws in D3 and his obvious distaste for 2 of them (floating numbers, Barbarians return) as well as how Blizzard Irvine seemed to get too involved.

    Obviously the fight was over their autonomy or lackthereof. But what I find interesting is the tiny little design details that they seem to have fought over. It's not like Blizzard Irvine wanted to make D3 a first person shooter...I mean the big argument was over 'floating numbers"??

    Given where Flagship is now, and Castaway Studios is as well I sort of wonder why this kind of thing is starting to trickle out now.
     
  2. Nezumi

    Nezumi IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    Trust me, you will never know the full story.

    First of all, there is no 'one' story, there are multiple points of view.
    Secondly, the games industry is small and incestuous - too rant (or reveal too much of the inner workings) on a public forum is highly likely to negatively impact current employment and possibly future employment.

    There can be many issues, contentions and rants amongst the comrades in the trenches about many issues, but those will rarely get released to the public.

    Floating numbers may seem trivial, but it is likely more symbolic of bigger struggles.
     
  3. Doctrinaire

    Doctrinaire IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    Trivial and probably optional.


     
  4. Nezumi

    Nezumi IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    In my opinion, floating numbers destroy the immersiveness (?spelling) of the game.
    Is there a way to turn them off in WoW? Really, I would like to...
     
  5. Doctrinaire

    Doctrinaire IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    You can get rid of them in WoW with various interface addons.

    WoW's enjoyment was exponentially (hah) enhanced for me because of its flashy floating numbers, actually. Just goes to show that Diablo II needs lots and lots of options, and that one size never fits all.


     
  6. Nezumi

    Nezumi IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    Ugh, addons... well, thank you, guess I will have to look into that. But I hate addons...

    Do you know if they are 'sanctioned' addons? Oops... that is thread highjacking... nevermind. I will look into it.
     
  7. Mcwhopper

    Mcwhopper IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    WTH? Arent we talking about floating-point versus fixed-point here? I really doubt he actually meant number that "floated" what would be the sense in that?
     
  8. Bad Ash

    Bad Ash IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    Your telling me you never wondered how much damage you actually did to a monster? If your frozen orb did as much damage it said it did, or if your huge disparity between min dmg and max dmg ever affected a fight?

    I dont know, I am not really for or against floating numbers, but there have been some cases where I have wondered how much damage i actually did compared to what was displayed on the char screen
     
  9. Uldyssian

    Uldyssian IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    I doubt this. So weird. When i saw it I went "Ok. Thats a new feature. Cool."

    I guess my outlook on this and life in general isn't to be thinking of the cons but the pros. For me anything Diablo related is a pro. But I am prolly on the side of Diablo fanatic. For me I can't spend time thinking about whats missing but rather I look to see what is there and how it is fun and exciting. This leads to being well rested and less time being upset and pessimistic.

    I counter this influx of pleasant feelings with frequent trips to my local Diablo 3/ WoW related Forums. For a quick dose of anxiety and the onset of gray hairs at 24 years of age.


     
  10. Nezumi

    Nezumi IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    The context of the comment was about the number that floats up above the creature you hit. It is something that Blizzard North resisted putting into D2, but it is in the D3 demo. Hence Huang's comment that it shows a more 'Irvine' aspect to the game.

    As for "If your frozen orb did as much damage it said it did" - no I never wondered. The damage number listed has variables, the mob being hit adds variables - heck, I could hardly figure out all the math in determining how much a weapon does vs does "per tick" or per second - what ever.

    I trust the developer to show me I am being effective without numbers floating over a monster's head. What next - a big "Click the mouse button NOW" floating over the monster to signal when to play a cool pre-canned animation for umpteenth time? I find that very un-immersive too.
    Talk about the forth wall...


     
  11. DWS

    DWS IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    Well he specifically mentioned floating numbers as one of the struggles. I guess it's a symptom of a bigger problem but in reality in a business environment you can't be all "temper tantrum" when things don't go your way. Heck, Mike isn't even in the games industry anymore....

    a) I can't believe that Blizzard Irvine was so into the floating numbers in the first place
    b) I can't believe the folks took their bat and went home based on that
    c) I can't believe they didn't compromise and make it an option


     
  12. DWS

    DWS IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments


    How immersed will you be when the reality of interactive backgrounds is that only spot "x, y, and z" are interactive and everything else is just as static as before?


     
  13. Doctrinaire

    Doctrinaire IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    I like floating numbers because at a certain point the suspension of my disbelief matters less than how geared and powerful my character is, and floating numbers effectively communicate that. It is very satisfying to find a new weapon and immediately see bigger numbers, even if the upgrade would be imperceptible otherwise. I would also be in favor of sticky criticals/deadly strikes.

    That being said it should always be optional.
     
  14. slickr

    slickr IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    He was not pointing out anything, rather than posting different views!
    If The barbarian was broken in D2(which I didn't have problem with it when playing it) that doesn't mean it can't be fixed. Furthermore he was mostly talking about imbalance to other classes which in turn is not too big since diablo 2 didn't have any jumpable terrain as he implies as an example to D3 and how it mught be unbalanced.
    Though that doesn't mean its automatically imbalanced, since there may be different ways to go around a terrain!

    Second point about floating numbers is also not a big thing, in fact its not even a problem since you can probably toggle on/off things like that in the configuration panel!
    I know warcraft has that kind of options, WOW has them, I don't see why Diablo 3 would not have them!


     
  15. ill logic

    ill logic IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    I'm more interested in Huang's ideas of the game rather than any company squabbles.

    "enhancing and improving the skill system, we didn't want to try and adapt old skills into a new system"

    Oooh juicy juicy. I wonder what this means? Are they moving away from skill trees? Are they taking synergies further? I should think he doesn't mean the hot bar (which is useless IMO in comparison to D2, since we could hotkey 14 skills easily, yet only using 8 or so).

    And since the character classes had been detailed already, might this mean that the skills from an axed char were spread to other classes? If making up skills comes as easy as they say, perhaps not, but it is something to think about.

    "One of the reasons why the Barbarian return shocks me so much is that I always felt that the Barbarian character class was the most broken of the classes in Diablo II. The Barbarian's ability to Leap, for instance gave him advantage over other classes which had to walk around the barrier"

    Most broken? What? What about the Sorc's Teleport? Anyone remember when should could get faster cast + Telekinesis and pick up all the rares/uniques that dropped, much faster than anyone else could manually? What about Enigma making Leap moot (and practically every other armor piece, esp. in PvP)? Meh, Leap Attack was only useful for clowning in Arcane Sanc; it sucked for catching GA zons in PvP. Most broken class my ***. Items giving faster run, +1 to teleport etc. had a much greater effect than Leap did. For sheer speed, even giving barriers, charge + vigor kicked Leap Attack's *** as well.

    With several people having map hack as well, it's not like my barb. could beat them to the Summoner anyway...

    "The use of a physics engine (Havoc, according to the game specs) is also a nice touch."

    We agree. Curtains move beautifully as the Barb swings his gigantic fire enchanted hammer. Leap Attack does look a lot better than it did in D2 when jumping large distances (D2 was like the Hulk movie with Eric Bana).

    On damage floating points: Many think it only shows up on crits. This is most likely. As a Diablo player, I think it's useless to me. A drop in HP is all the info I need. I can tell whether level 4 Sacrifice or level 1 Zeal is killing monsters faster w/o floaters. Floaters on any attack would suck. If I'm using a 1-40 dam. bardiche, I don't wanna be reminded that I did **2** damage. Seriously.

    What frightens me is the thought of dozens of numbers, blocking each other and forming illegible gobbledy-gook when a killer spell hits 50 clumped monsters repeatedly. If something like that ever happens, I will protest. If it is crit only and there is no massed text, I could deal with it. However, a toggle would be even better.

    Nezumi:
    "What next - a big "Click the mouse button NOW" floating over the monster to signal when to play a cool pre-canned animation for umpteenth time?"


    Let's hope God of War's influence stops with the Barb :)

    DWS: The movable walls in the Jail in D2 didn't break my immersion, even though the rest were static
    slickr: There were obstacles that could be jumped over. You could jump over the ponds in a1 blood moor, or the spaces in arcane sanctuary, or boulders throughout the game etc. And you could jump over mobs ofc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  16. Mcwhopper

    Mcwhopper IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments


    Wow is that really what he was upset about? I love that feature, I want it in all my games!

    That suprised me, floating numbers actually meaning floating numbers :whistling:



     
  17. phool

    phool IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    The only way I don't see floating numbers being optional is if they've done away with listing enemy immunities.

    Personally I like them... detract from immersion, yeah probably, but having big numbers pop up is just really satisfying. Takes me back to good old GTA 2 etc.
     
  18. 5zigen

    5zigen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    Imo, the health bars are more detrimental to the environment than the floating numbers.

    And yes you can turn them off in wow, you can modify the UI in any number of ways.



     
  19. popodomo

    popodomo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    I dunno bout you guys but Diablo 2 never really "suspended" my beliefs anyway. I was too busy killing hellspawn to notice haha.

    Diablo 1, however, had a creepy vibe to it. Maybe cuz it was so much slower.

    From the looks of it so far, Diablo 3 game speed looks in between D1 and D2 in terms of speed.

    I'm a big, BIG fan of visceral combat in any of the games I play so to see GoW influences on the Barbarian was a nice touch. I'm sure they won't add in those "Press A/X" sequences as that just detracts from the flow of the game itself.

    Floating numbers I don't care either way. Though you could E-peen waggle against your friends by saying you had the biggest crit on "Insert-boss-name".
     
  20. 5zigen

    5zigen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Mike Huang comments

    It was because mobs didn't have a health bar!



     

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