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Mighty frustrated...

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by BlueOctoberFan, Aug 28, 2006.

  1. BlueOctoberFan

    BlueOctoberFan IncGamers Member

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    Mighty frustrated...

    So, this weekend I finally get my third Meteorb sorc up into hell, circa lvl 75 or so, only to have her one-shot killed by an archer boss. Ordinarily, fine, I can handle that. However, this is the third time it's happened, so it's getting quite irritating. What other builds can actually do anything in hell? I've got a 78 trapper, but she can't get anywhere in A1 due to all of the lightning immunes. Also, I hate necros, so a Fishymancer is out. Any other suggestions? Please note that about the full extent of my twinking ability is a Spirit sword and Insight pole for a merc.
     
  2. GodObelisk

    GodObelisk IncGamers Member

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    U dun like summon necro.. ok so its out.
    But why cant ur trapper handle light immunes in hell? Put points in fire blast to handle light immunes. Your merc is also there to handle all those which u cant handle. Fire blast + merc to get first/ some corpse(s) then DS, this will further reduce the mobs' life or create more corpses.

    If all that fails, just leave the fellow(s) alone, run!!!

    IMO trapper/ summon necro are best for untwinkled.

    GL on your 4th meterob sorc if u are ever going to build another.
     
  3. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    Met/Orb IMO is a build for when you have the gear best suited for it. I would like to hear the stats of this Sorc that got smoked in one shot, and her gear......You realize you could level to 80 in NM very easily and probably have better gear for hell?

    Make an Orber or a Blizz build and get thru the game, MF and build up some stuff then make your Met/Orb if you want.

    BTW, a level 2-3 Lower Resists charge wand is all you need to kill those immunes with your trapper. Very few things are out there that LR cant help you with. What Merc your Sin have? you have a Shadow?

    My personal fav setup is a Shadow Master.......not maxed but solid, if you can hit 20 or so wiht +skills you are good she can be recast. Personally I like Barbs for my merc on a Trapper but Might is ok I suppose........if you get a nasty unique mindblast his *** until your merc and shadow kill it.....use Cloak more.....pull the LIs into groups of non-LIs is another workable tactic. A sin has Cloak, that is also known as "avoidability" you can basically run thru Act 1 and kill nothing if you really wanted to. Her you LIs beat on my shadow while I skate by or my merc, or her is a MB or two, turn someone and let them kill it or Cloak. you can even go as far as using Attract Charges to get them to give you a corpse.
     
  4. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    There's nothing wrong with the build. Stick around NM for a while and get some itamz: NM Meph drops just about everything you could ever need in order to run through Hell, NM Baal drops even better if you can handle the gloams/dolls/OKs, NM Cows drop all kinds of shiny LLD itamz (including life charms that probably could have saved you this last time), and any grand charm found after mid NM Act 3 can be cubed into a skiller. After you acquire all those riches, just trade with people on your flist.

    Another build possibly worth trying is a Strafe/LF Zon. LF+Pierce decimates non-lightning-immune packs while Strafe takes care of everything else and helps you leech a bit. Toss a point in Freezing Arrow for crowd control and beef up your Valk as much as possible. Aim for a WWS, upped if possible. Tadda!
     
  5. BlueOctoberFan

    BlueOctoberFan IncGamers Member

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    Thanks everyone for the advice. I think I'll give a zon a try. I haven't played one in a very long time. Hopefully I muled off the Goldstrike before the last sorc bit the dust....
     
  6. OzDemandred

    OzDemandred IncGamers Member

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    I think the problem is the fact you're entering hell. What you need to do is accept that if this is your first high level HC character, it's probably not a good idea to take it into hell, since your gear is a little under par for what you're going to be up against.

    Best bet is to keep this one in Nightmare. Do some Magic Finding, run through various areas to level up that you're comfortable with, and try and get some decent items together. Then you can start planning more characters, based on what items you've managed to find. I know I had a Sorc in my account - first HC char I ever made. Kept her for about 2 years when I was playing. She never went to Hell. I killed Baal quite a few times, but she always just did Meph runs and PA'ed people through Normal and NM. With plenty of MF she never would've had the resists or the fortitude to survive hell, but she did outstanding service in NM.
     
  7. happyslayer

    happyslayer IncGamers Member

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    imo meteorb is a great starter char. Did you use energy shield?
     
  8. BlueOctoberFan

    BlueOctoberFan IncGamers Member

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    Yes. I had 15TK, and 5 in ES (around 8 after +skills).
     
  9. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    So, what killed you?

    Ya i know you siad you got 1 shot by some Unique but that really doesnt answer the question, what was its mods, what curses were on you, what was your resists, block, gear, life, mana...etc

    What was your total build?

    How were you playing? Were you teleporting around like you had a tank of a sorc when you really had a armored car? or maybe even a glass cannon? Could you of played a little more cautiously and probably avoided this death? Were you playing with your tounge out the left or the right side of your mouth? Jordan will tell you this matters......if that thing isnt in the right spot for the right shot it wont fall! :)

    Knowing what killed you makes it easier to improve. You were 75 in Hell, you may of been lacking something somewhere. You may have opted to run short on life or resists so you could have some MF, or +skills thinking they were needed to kill...........what was the root cause?


    I will tell you right now and you can take it to the bank.......you can beat this game without +skills or MF. You can find items without MF......You can beat this game with a bunch of freaking socketed gear and gems and resist runes on most any reasonable build if you play it properly. You can kill Baal with 75% of the damage as the next guy if you can tank his damage with full resist gear but you could run 25% more damage and have low resists and end up taking a dirt nap!!!

    Getting good at HC mean improving and you cant improve if you dont understand your failures and how to improve on them.
     
  10. BlueOctoberFan

    BlueOctoberFan IncGamers Member

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    I'm thinking my resists were a bit low, and I saw that there was a holy shock aura on the skelly-archer. That's basically all I saw. I'll admit to some impatience as well, given that it was my third try. I get the gist of what you're saying through. Would it be better to go for something with physical damage since it'll be physically more resilient (i.e. a barb or zealot)? I'm thinking this, also, because while the elemental attacks are strong, there are so many immunes that you could be overrun by creatures you can do nothing against in a heart-beat. From my limited hell experience, there just seems to be fewer physical immunes than anything else.

    Additional note: I think this frustration is also coming from being formerly good at this game. In .09 I had multiple characters in the upper 90's, and now I can't seem to get anywhere in Hell (current record is about half-way through A2), and I can't crack lvl 80.
     
  11. d00m2k

    d00m2k IncGamers Member

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    Because of the threat of TPPKs, I now level my characters from 1 - 80 without ever transfering an item to them. At 80, when they can run solo hell MF and other jobs without dieing, I put gear on them.

    That said, I have two favorite characters that EASILY solo everything any difficulty can throw at them. This includes when I remake them and the only gear they have is gear they found on the way, or gear traded for with found items.

    1) Trapper

    2) LF/FA Javazon

    The trapper is a breeze. 1pt into Mindblast and BoS. Then max LS, then DS, then Fireblast, then CBS, and eventually put the rest of your points into shock web. I will say defiantly, cloak of shadows is the most overpowered PVM spell in the game. I group mobs for DS like I would with javazon grouping for LF...I run in with BoS, get them to bunch up, then CoS. Lay my LS's, when corpses come use DS, collect loot.

    To deal with LIs, fireblast is incredible (synergized). With BoS you can toss very fast. A lot of LIs are ranged (i.e. archers in pit), so when you see them, CoS, fireblast and drop a couple DS before the fireblasts hit. If there is a special mob in the group, CoS will not work on her. So CoS, mindblast to convert a nearby CoS'ed archer/mob and she will attack it as you rain fire down on them.

    For bosses, lay 5 LS's and spam fireblast. Your DPS will be very good.
    -------------------------------------------------------
    As for the Javazon, she is equally as fun. I max LF + CS, as well as FA + CA. I put 5 points into pierce, and a point into decoy. I do not use valk or passive dodges (they have gotten me killed...trying running WSK). Valk is bad for grouping, while decoy is plenty and perfect in addition to a holy freeze merc. Insight is usually needed, but very easy to make. Basically run around gathering mobs, decoy, LF and collect loot. For single large mobs, use CS (all bolts will hit). For immunes, switch to FA. A very common immune are Dark Souls -- just decoy on the opposite side of them so they shoot in the other direction.

    For both builds use a shield, near max block (I try to get 55% - 65%). A shield allows you to frontload all your resists, meaning the rest of your gear can focus on MF. Both these builds are a breeze to level, and are, in my opinion, the two most fun builds to play. If you'd like more details or some starting gear for either, *pete2s useast.
     
  12. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    A Physicaly damage build bring in a whole lot of other issues and one very potentially devistating one that comes into play very early in the game in Act 3 NM with the Council with is FE's. Being in range when they die can be an instant death for any character even a lvl 70+ Barb can die to an FE Strong Council memeber when he dies, or an FE Lidster.......anything wiht high life...Ancients...etc. Then you also have the Iron Maiden to deal with......

    The only real soloable builds with limited gear is a Windy, Trapper, Minion Master/Skelly Master, Java and a Hammerdin.......now others can do it but these are the more solid ones and a few of them take being played very smartly or even they wont last long like a Sorc or Hammerdin and to a point a Java.......As we all know a Sorc can meet her match pretty quickly just abotu anywhere but depending on how played can keep that from happening.....Java and Hammerdin bring tons of damage which puts them at risk of killing an FE so fast they cant get away or dont see it....Windys dont kill so super fast but they are pretty close to everything they kill so they need to be cautions. Trappers......hell you could go your entire life and never be threatened......doubt it happens but they just dont get hit alot depending on how played. SkellyMancers.....thier biggest issues are portals, stairs, lag.....or being in a hurry and being to "infront" of the minions.


    As for your one shot death.......Holy Shockers are potentially beastly.....could pop you for 1 damage or some insignificant amount hundreds of times but if they score a max roll its going to hurt especially if rez is low.

    $th try is coming.......do it......this time dont go to hell wihtout max resists and dont go till 80! Might seem like overkill here but hey you want to succeed right? Dont invest in Mana if you did before.......dont invest in strenght for "future items" you dont have now if you did before......dont invest dex for future items if you did before.....shoot for Wizzy/Whitstans/Viper for your sorc and just forget about SS's and other high req stuff for this build if you were doing that before.

    When i make a sorc (and I dont claim to be a great sorc player either) i just dont leave NM til I am ready. Hell she can make me rich and never leave NM. There is really only a handfull of stuff that NM Meph and Ball or Eldritch and Shenk cant give me that I must get in Hell and really none of it is a prereq for a good sorc.......Shako is nice but OPTIONAL.......besides the best dropper of that IMO is Hell Andy which is easy to farm at 80 with max rez and solid life and smart play.....I got 9 Harleys from Andy in Season 2 and I quit about 4 months into it!!!

    Wizzy/Viper/Whitstans.........all NM drops, a diamond in the Shield and IIRC you are around 60ish all resisits and like 90 dex at level 80 wiht max block (dont hold me to that dex number this is from memeory). Find or craft (1) Prismatic Ammy 15 or better and you have max resisits........

    Invest no Mana.......hell wear a socket help with Saphires in it if you need, I do until it gets to the point I dont need it anymore or must add somethign there.....3 sock 3 perfect saphs, big bonus on mana.......

    Gamble belts, and boots from about level 18 or 24 thru say 45ish.......really good chances of getting really good rares at these levels, and if you get a really good rare you just cant replace them with uniques in some cases. Hell a big dual resists/MF/FHR set of boots or belt is very solid........I almost always end up with Frostys unless i go fire.

    If you go Met Orb againthen find out whats the best path........get one set of damage done and then get your defense and then finish up the second set of damage.......this insures your Defense is ready for Hell at 80 and will give you enuff damage of 2 types to kill well with one and add enuff damage to your mercs damage to get by.......so maybe max Orb first, then your Telek/ES get that done and then you might be at say lvl 10-15+ in Met (guessing) and that is plenty of damage to help your merc with immunes.

    I dont know what merc you went for but I like Defiance......sure early he isnt a big impact but later you can up your Vipers.....add 1 point in Shiver Armor, and all that combined is really nice.


    Not sure how you built your girl so I am simply assuming you didnt go this route.

    #1 thing to remember.......dont go to Hell without max rez and at least good block......75% isnt a must, but 50% is crap IMO......

    #2 When you go to hell dont wear any MF........yes, NONE....wear full resisits, even stacked resists, and anywhere you can add more life, more FHR, maybe even for for the 105 FCR point.....you are questing......just get it done safely and safely means no MF.......(no MF doesnt mean 0 no, MF might be there in a small number just focus on the livability stuff to get thru Hell)
     
  13. BlueOctoberFan

    BlueOctoberFan IncGamers Member

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    All good advice... I don't think I've ever had much block at all. Is the LCS actually correct on your blocking, or is there another way of calculating it? Every time I've checked, it's around 5%, but it has always been something I've rather neglected. Wearing MF gear isn't really an issue, as I've never found any, nore have I ever gotten close to the 105% FCR breakpoint (I might get 40% at the upper end, 60-65 if I have a Spirit).

    For the merc, I tend to use a Prayer merc, so you get the bonus synergy when they have Insight. I'm thinking the defenses on all of my characters tend to be abysmally low since I try to focus on resists above all else (last char was just impatience that got him killed, I suppose).

    Thanks again for all of the good advice.
     
  14. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    Hum, Synergy with Insight........on the Mediation? You realize 1 point in mediation on a Pally can allow him to cast hammers endlessly with almost no mana pool. Hell, when I make a Hammerdin I put one point in Conc, get 1 in Mediation and then I pump synergys for hammer and run Mediation everywhere i go and beat the livin **** out of everything. I turn on Conc for bosses and uniques when needed......hell you can do ALL of NM on a Hammerdin using 1 point in Mediation and no Conc and almost never stop twirling.

    "The increase rate is tremendous, 300% at just Slvl 1, which is equivalent to Slvl 22 Warmth."

    Ever play a lvl 22 warmth Sorc? with any reasonable mana pool at all she doesnt need much!!! Also on a Met/Orber you are using (2) timered skills most of the time which hit hard and dont use alot of mana anyway.

    Now if its the Blessed Aim......will it get better with Insight? Hell who cares your merc isnt the main killer here its you and Blessed aim doesnt do much for his damage they usually dont miss much if thier level is close to the foes anyway........use Defiance, or even Holy Freeze they are much better for you.

    Spirit on a sorc? Ok Spirit is a nice item, and if you can get the other gear to really make it work like the rest of the FCR so you have NO LESS than 63 FCR then go for it, but look at what a Wizzy gets you......Look at how easy it is to get your resists with a Wizzy and how easy it is to get your FCR and the nic mana pool boost.

    + (2 Per Character Level) 2-198 To Mana (Based On Character Level)
    50% Faster Cast Rate
    Regenerate Mana 15%
    Increase Maximum Mana 15%
    All Resistances +75
    Indestructible

    Now you need FHR to go with this but having 50 FCR on one item means only (2) Rings does the trick, or with a Viper:

    +120% Enhanced Defense
    +1 To All Skills
    30% Faster Cast Rate
    Magic Damage Reduced By 9-13 (varies)
    All Resistances +20-35 (varies)

    You have 80 FCR......now you are at 63 easy and with some extra gear you could hit 105....need 35, you can craft ammys, or there are Glooves and other things.......105 is above the call of duty, 63 is good for Met/Orb though....anything less that 63 is not good at all.

    FCR is BIG.....your cast rate allows you to save your own arse easier. At 63 many times you will land next to a pack and they wont even respond before you are gone......with 105 hell they may not even move. With good FCR and FHR you can land in the middle of pack get hit, recocery fast and GTFO fast......

    Block rate......if you had no block then you could probably point straight to that for your death......50% block blows IMO, but if you would of had even that you would of had a 45% better chance of living thru that encounter!!! Nothing lik ehearing "clank clank". Think about it, chances are 3 in 4 it will get blocked, that means there is a very strong chance that "one shot" isnt going to kill you, and also a very good chance even 2 might get blocked.....how much more time do you have to react to a bad situaiton now?


    Do it........

    Wizzy/Whitstans/Viper
    Defiance Merc
    No invested energy
    Only enuff dex for max block and dont invest taht until you get your items
    Vita Vita Vita
    Strenght only for gear
    Fill up ALLLLLLL of your inventory wiht charms......LIFE LIFE LIFE, even the crappy ones, leave enuff room to pike up a pole arm and no more.......NO MORE, and do not go to Hell without being level 80, max rez, and a ton of charms.

    Once you get in hell save all the charms you find and cube the bad ones looking for Vita or good tradeable ones.

    If you do this you can easily hae a sorc wiht 1200 life befroe any boosts and you can actually do better than that.


    BTW, your block is what it tells you when you hover over your dex, but there is a formula.

    http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=551#Chance to Block
     
  15. BlueOctoberFan

    BlueOctoberFan IncGamers Member

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    Alrighty then... Is it possible to trade pgems for this gear? That's basically all I have to trade for gear, with the exception of a couple of mid-lvl runes (fal, ko, um). I don't expect you to be able to give anything exact, but could I reasonably expect to trade even 40 pgems for a wizzy?
     
  16. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    most that stuff this late in the season should be gem trades but I frankly have no idea as I have been out of the game for some time......like I said though its all NM Meph and Baal drops and you dont need it all in NM......hell you can get by with a Shard.......Suicide Branch.....lots of things in NM....that is the Hell gear.

    Get thru NM to 70ish-75 and run Meph NM and get your gear, should be easy to get resists and run him wiht good MF.......
     
  17. killerxbabe

    killerxbabe IncGamers Member

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    Wow! Haven't been to these boards in a while. Stinger and Xey are still here, and TPPK is still an issue. Been playing a lot of XBox360 but keep thinking about D2, I've broken the addiction though, so I really shouldn't come back. :hide:
     
  18. bigD72

    bigD72 IncGamers Member

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    ...You're already on the dark and clouded path.

    Yo, BlueOct. if you need some in game help give me a whisper *lord_naphtali
     
  19. HCKull

    HCKull IncGamers Member

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    "Because of the threat of TPPKs, I now level my characters from 1 - 80 without ever transfering an item to them. At 80, when they can run solo hell MF and other jobs without dieing, I put gear on them."

    This makes no sense. I worry about TPPK and do lots of transfering of items. It is easy to do this solo:

    1) Sit in a passworded game for 5 min
    2) Drop items for transfer
    3) Leave game
    4) Enter game with different char
    5) Pickup items

    works 95% of the time
     
  20. HCKull

    HCKull IncGamers Member

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    NO MORE, and do not go to Hell without being level 80, max rez, and a ton of charms.

    max rez before hell or in hell ?
     

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