MF Summoner Gear TO vs. ???

[darzog]

MF Summoner Gear TO vs. ???

OK, I've read the gear selection thread talking about getting the best skeletons, but what about MF? I'm currently running a Summoner pretty close to the Fishymancer guide. I'm at level 82 now and ready to start MFing a bit more. So where is a good line to draw between Necro gear and pure MF gear? Since the only question is TO vs. other (rings, ammy, boots always open), here's the matchup I see:

TO (ali baba or gull + Trang shield on switch):
+5 all skills
CBF
~+90% resist all
Fire Skills
High Block, +40 r/w, +25 fhr, +20 fcr
0% MF (not on switch)

If instead I use more MF gear (with ali baba or gull + mf shield on switch):
Skullders-PTop
Goldwrap-Up'ed
Shako-PTop
Homunculus
Trang Gloves (may switch to Magefist if need fcr breakpoint or chancies for a little more MF)

That leaves me with:
+5 all skills, +9 to curses
~+40% resist all (more to cold)
Higher Block, +20 fcr
~230% MF (not on switch)

Or I could switch in a Viper to add more resist for less MF. And of course between boots, amulet, and rings I will have more MF and probably some resists. Once I start getting to diminishing returns I like Dwarf+Raven for rings for the fire/cold absorb but can add in 2x Nagel if MF is low.

Does a Summoner work well in more MF-oriented gear like the stuff I've suggested? I thought I would end up with less skills which would hurt my minion # and strength but it turns out +skills is the same and curses are even higher, so not as big a change as I feared. Any thoughts?

_________________
Darzog

 

[Mad Mantis]

So where is a good line to draw between Necro gear and pure MF gear?

A good line is when you find that the killing becomes too slow. You can substitute MF for +skills and you only need to stop when you find that a run takes too long and you get in danger. This is the only thing you need to keep in mind. Typical Summoners do very well in MF orientated gear.

If the option you have giving allows you to make a run in relative safety and in a time reasonable for you then it is a good set-up.

 

[Myrakh-2]

For me, the thinking is exactly the other way: I have 275% mf with TO and Gull, which is pretty good. So I don't need the insanely expensive gear you suggest, and nonetheless I'm running with full resists, fireskills and even fancy stuff like physical resist and CBF just in case.

If you want expensive gear without the safety provided by TO, it will work. You can also choose a unique setup with more +skills than TO; it's all a matter of what items you can afford to get, and what you WANT. Nothing in your gear, except for the +skills, affects your skellies, and your skellies prevent a lot of attacks from reaching you --- pretty good conditions for a wide range of gear selection.

Note that without TO, killing hard PIs/PI+stoneskin monsters will be slow since you only have the mages dishing out elemental damage --- roughly 1/4 of them will be poison mages which don't do any damage, another 1/4 of them will be cold mages with very little damage.

 

[darzog]

Well, other than ist'ed ali baba, nothing on the list is realy that expensive. You can get a Shako for a Pul, or there-abouts (my Sorcs was bought with a Pul rune). Homun isn't too bad and the rest are Pul or less.

But your point is taken. I guess I can try getting a gull and a 2nd TO shield for now. Use Leoric to raise, then switch to Gull (with TO shield on both so I don't lose the bonuses). Then add in the rest of the gear for MF and see how well I turn out.

Since the TO is really worthwhile when it's all or almost nothing, was just curious whether it was worth the effort of replacing all but gloves. Cause once you take 1 item away the set loses a lot of ground to all uniques.

___________________
Darzog

 

[Mad Mantis]

Note that without TO, killing hard PIs/PI+stoneskin monsters will be slow since you only have the mages dishing out elemental damage --- roughly 1/4 of them will be poison mages which don't do any damage, another 1/4 of them will be cold mages with very little damage.

You can unsummon the useless Mages if you want. Usually there are enough bodies around for this to be a viable tactic.

 

[HarbingersOfSkulls]

You can unsummon the useless Mages if you want. Usually there are enough bodies around for this to be a viable tactic.

I find my mages quite useful for my mf'er MM.

As for the TO v.s part...I have gone with the v.s side and have a -1/-1/-8/-1 resists in hell...and have now hit the 800 mf with my build.

HoS

 

[Mad Mantis]

I find my mages quite useful for my mf'er MM.

Mages aren't useless. I like them a lot. You should know that. What I was referring to was the comment by Myrakh about how the Cold and Poison Mages were useless for beating a Hard PI since their damage can be neglected (he is right about that). I suggested that if you remove those "useless" Mages you don't need TO's help to beat Hard PI's.

 

[WickedFrog25]

Here's the Arreat Summit page that list about every MF item
http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/magic/magicfind.shtml

I've been twinking my necros gear to get more and more mf, and am pretty happy where he's at now. I've been thinking about reviewing all the choices.
Helm:
Shako is definitely the stand-out unique, +2 skills and 74% mf in an easy to trade for item. Tarnhelm or a 3-PTopaz helm are the poor man choices. A rare circlet with +2 skills, resists, 2 sockets, etc could possibly be the best option, but much harder to find than anything else.

Armor:
Enigma is of course, the most outstanding option with high mf, teleport, +2 skills and more. I favor Tal's armor over Skullder's because the resists are great, and more important to me than +1 skill and the extra mf. Wealth doesnt seem to be worth the runes to me.

Weapon:
6 Ist Crystal Sword is the perfectionist option. At level 90 this will beat the 2 Ist Ali Baba by 30%mf. It also costs 4 more Ist runes, and you lose 15 dex and some gold find. If you don't have any Ist runes yet than Gull dagger is nice to have.

Shield:
4 Ist Shield is a whopping 100% mf, but you'll need at least 156 strength, and you lose all the other possibilities the shield slot can offer. Rhyme is nice with 25% mf, cannot be frozen, resists, and a little better blocking. Splendor has 20%mf, +1 skills, and nice caster mods. Unfortunately it doesn't have any mods that help you stay alive. Homonculus may not have any mf, but it offers so much in one slot that it's a great choice for mf. A good Boneflame would definitely be good to make up weaknesses in an mf necro too.

Belt:
Goldwrap is 30% more mf, and more gold. Upgrade it for more beltslots. Tal Rasha's belt offers some nice mana mods, and +20dex, but a perfect one only has 15% mf. The belt could also be used as a set bonus, I'll refer to the set at the end of this.

Boots:
War Traveler is the only unique, and can add up to 50%mf, along with +10 vita and strength. The problem is the mf on them varies so much it is hard to find a good pair. I've had good luck finding boots with frw, resists, and mf so in my opinion rare boots are the way to go here.

Gloves:
Chance Guards is up to 40%mf, and 200% gold. Since gloves aren't usually a big issue for necros these seem to do just fine. Unlike boots, I haven't really found a good rare pair of gloves for mfing, but it should be possible to get 25%mf along with resists. I might also look into Crafted Caster gloves if they can get mf and resists along with faster cast.

Amulets:
No uniques with mf here, so if you're looking for a unique I'd have to say Mara's is the best choice. +2 skills and help with the resists that you are probably lacking in. This is also partly why gambling ammy's is so common. 50% max mf on a magic ammy, but 35% mf max on a 1.10 rare. Remember +3 to skill tabs can only spawn on magic, not rare, ammys.

Rings:
Nagelrings are the only unique choice, but 2 perfect ones will add a hefty 60%. SoJs don't have mf, but you could say the +skills and mana helps you kill fast enough to make up for it. Rare rings with mf, faster cast, resists, life, mana, and stats are the ideal for many people. To me even a magic ring with mf and some useful stat is better than a Nagel. The max on magic rings is 40%mf, max on rares is 25%mf

Other notes.
Tal's set gives a nice additional 65% mf bonus for just wearing 3 items. If you've decided to go with the armor and find the belt useful, you could consider the ammy. Sure, the +2 sorc skills will be wasted on a necro but think of it this way. For useful mods the belt has 15%mf, +30 mana, +20 dex and 37% damage to mana. The ammy has 33% lightning resists, 42 mana, and 50 life. Now since the belt has 15mf less than goldwrap, we subtract 15 from the bonus, and still get 50 mf for the ammy, that has good mods. Oh you also get 20% faster cast(10% each from armor and belt partial bonuses). In return you give up +skills that you could get from a different ammy. This isn't the option I decided on, but I thought about it quite a bit.