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MF runs...Need Help

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by Griffin, Feb 9, 2004.

  1. Griffin

    Griffin IncGamers Member

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    MF runs...Need Help

    I'm going to try to be very in depth here so that perhaps someone here can help me solve this problem. My sorceress is currently level 86, and is a fairly cookie-cutter Meteorb sorc. I believe her important skills are as follows:

    Max Frozen Orb
    7 in Cold Mastery
    1 in Static Field
    1 in Teleport
    Max Meteor
    Max Fire Mastery
    17 in Fireball

    I believe I made a mistake in maxing Fire Mastery before Fireball, but in 3 levels that should be fixed. My stats are approximately as follows: 97 str (for Skullders), about 190 dex, about 225 vit, and base energy. My equipment is also fairly typical for a MF sorc:

    37%mf Tarnhelm
    35%mf Amulet
    pTopazed Skullder's
    Occy
    Lidless Wall
    27%mf Nagelring
    34%mf Ring (from before this patch, I think)
    Goldwrap
    37%mf Chance Guards
    Some bad 23%mf rare boots

    I also have a 37%mf Gheed's Fortune, and a few other mf charms. My total mf is exactly 450%, I think.

    My merc (Holy Freeze, lvl 84 right now) is using a Reaper's Toll, a pTopazed Ethereal Shako, and Shaftstop.

    My MF is high enough, and I have the patience to do a run as many times as I need to to find good items. The trouble is, I can't seem to do ANY of these runs in hell. I've tried them all, many times.

    The Pit is the easiest: I've successfully done it a few times with my merc, although it was still pretty difficult. The trouble is that quite often there'll be some sort of hero in there who can kill me very quickly with charged bolts or the death frost nova or something. I die, my merc drops dead, I go back, it takes me a few times to kill em usually. I'll be flat broke from dying so much, and can't afford to resurrect my merc without starting a new game (I do NM Shenk and Eldritch runs to get cash, sell their yellow items). So every few runs I hit this roadblock and it takes me forever to do the run. There's gotta be a better way, I'm pretty sure I should be able to do this at 86.

    Mephisto is something I've been trying recently: it's pretty hard to actually get to Durance Lvl 3, but I think (through much practice, and many many deaths) that I've figured out how to teleport through it sorta well. Now, the first time I got down there it somehow worked out perfectly, I teleported around, got him stuck in the moat, stood on the other side and Meteored the hell out of him. None of the Council Members or Blood Lords were attacking me, there were no summoned hydras or firewalls to deal with. The next few times I've gone down there though, I haven't been able to get away from them. It's impossible to kill Meph while dealing with all those monsters attacking you. When people run Meph, do they kill all of those things or do they avoid them and just kill Meph? The council members and all that seem to difficult to kill like that, theres a ton of them all at once. I'm trying to figure out how I did it before but I can't get it. Can someone please tell me in-depth how you do a meph run once you reach Durance 3? I just can't get all the other guys down there off my back.

    Eldritch/Shenk seems way too hard at this point: those Enslaved guys can only really be hit with fireballs, and it takes me like 8 fireballs to kill one. It's ridiculous. I can't ever kill them all without dying several times. They just have too much hp.

    Pindleskin seems almost doable, but I can't quite get it. I teleport up to that house thing, stand in the doorway, and start shooting fireballs at them. It only takes about 3 fireballs to kill the normal guys, but I can never, ever get Pindleskin himself below even half health before he reaches me, along with a few other ones who survived the fireballs. Once he reaches me it's all over: he usually kills me in just a couple of hits. And once I die I can never get back to him, I try teleporting but always get stuck in a mass of zombies. I can't back away from him either, all those other zombies are approaching the door. I just can't do enough damage to him before he gets to me. I've tried throwing Meteors into the mix, but it doesn't usually work to well either. Can someone give me a strategy for beating Pindleskin without dying? Nothing I try seems to work at all.

    The runs I want to do most are Meph and Pindle, but I can't really do either of them. I would like to be able to do any of these runs though. Can someone please teach me how? Any strategies you use when MFing these would be greatly appreciated. Please be precise. Thanks.
     
  2. Andrew

    Andrew IncGamers Member

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    Considering you're doing fine on Pit runs, then good on you.. stay with that =D. I take my Orb/CL sorc on Ancient Tunnel runs =D. no CI there.

    Anyways, Taking down the council memebers and the blood lords is a big waste of time, not to mention dangerous. I just go for Mephisto. Having a strong merc helps a lot. I tried a defiance and a barb merc. The barb merc seems to work best though, geared with craimte vomir (spelling? lol), Blackhorns and Shaft, he can survive a 3 player mephisto easily, and most 5 player mephisto runs =D. (defiance merc was with Kelpie's snare, Black horns and shaft)

    Switch your tarnhelm for a PTopaz Harlequins Crest. =D
     
  3. Griffin

    Griffin IncGamers Member

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    I would use a Harlequin Crest if I had one...I'm working on that. That's partly why I want to MF. The Pit is ok, but it still isn't working great for me, I get killed far too much. The problem on the meph runs is I don't know how to kill him while avoiding the council and blood lords. I can't survive long enough to take him out with all of them attacking me. Is there a way to just get around them, so they don't notice you?
     
  4. melianor

    melianor D3 Wizard Moderator

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    What about your stats?

    How high is your life? More life will help you alot..
    From the way you die it sound like your life is low.
    About 1000 life and base mana works nicely. though with your VIT-setting you should be fine.

    How high are your resists?
    Resists are crucial. At least your Lighnting res should be close to max or max.

    How high is your fast cast rate?
    You need at least +63% FCR to teleport fast enough through Durance lvl2 to be able to escape some of the nastier monsters.
    From your equipment it seems that your FCR is below 63% (this is a breakpoint which will let you cast at 9fps which is all you need)
    Occy+Lidless is only 50%. Get Vipermagi wiht Ptopaz and sacrifice some of your MF for better FCR otherwise you will not come up

    Did you go max-block with your Meteorb?

    What kind of equipment does your Merc use?
    He is supposed to be your tank, which he can only be with good gear that gives resist life, damage reduction, leeching. Those are mods you shoudl look for. Ideal would be some of these things Steelskull/Vampire Gaze/Reapers Toll/Bonehew/tombreaver/Shaftstop/Duriels Shell

    Killing techniques:

    Lightning enchanted bosses:
    Stay away from there charged bolts. the spawn in 90degree angels. you can position yourself with teleport so you dont get hit. Let your merc attack the mob and the boss. With the right equipment those are no trouble.

    Cold/Fire Enchanted/Cursed....:
    Amplify damage, portl to town, get rid of it if you see that you merc takes to much damage. Stay out of the range of those enchanted so the dieing-damage wont hit you.

    To confuse monsters, teleport about, plant Meteor, spawn Orb/Fireball, position your merc between yourself and the mob.

    Bosses:
    Andariel: Port down to lvl4 Catacombs, port into her chamber directly. kill everything that might be in the bigger part of her inner chamber. attract her. place your merc. fire meteor and fireball at her and she will die in no time!

    Mephisto:
    Teleporting to lvl3 Durance certainly taks some practice. Some advice here: Bring up your mini-map, focus on that an teleport using that map, keep along the walls and learn the different elements used to build that lvl so you will recognize them on the minimap. This way you can plan ahead.
    Once down on lvl3 port directly to Meph. Moattrick then works fine. Just watch not to attract any of the council.
    A different approach which migth sound crazy. take your merc with you. Approach Meph directly. Position yourself and your Merc directly infront of meph!
    His physical attacks are pretty weak and can be remedied with Health/Reju potion pretty fast. Good resists and possible item with cannot be frozen should be worn for thi tactic (raven frost ring for example)
    Static him down to half, plant Meteor and spawn fireball or spawn FO/Fireball then.
    Dies in a very short time this way.

    Another way for Meph:
    Get close enough to Static him. When he's down to half get away from him and spawn Fronzen Orb. Stay away from his attacks! The timer on Orb and the release of his spells work nicely together so you can always escape his attacks and release an Orb. This option can be used if you dont want to use a Merc with Mephisto. Also just teleport past the council.

    Eldritch: Again use your Merc as a tank. With the right equipment he can take the hits without a problem. Plant Meteor right on him and sawpn fireball. stay a bit away from the mayhem. Eldritch will die fast, also if your Merc ahs to kill him when he is FI/Ci

    Pindleskin:
    Again use your Merc. He will take the hits. You spawn Fireball/Meteor/FO and Pindle+mob die fast. Doing Pindle without your Merc is complete suicide or very timeconsuming since you will have to clear the monsters on the little plateau before Pindle so that you have space to escape those attacks.
     
  5. Griffin

    Griffin IncGamers Member

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    I can't reply to all of this right now, too tired, but I'll respond briefly. I'll be back tomorrow. Something strange with the life: I have 225 vit, with my items. You say that's fine, but I don't have 1000 life. Not even close. I only have that much when I have BO. I only have 595 life. How can I fix this? Actually, a Harlequin Crest might go a long way towards this...must find one.

    My resists are pathetic. Please tell me how I can increase them. My resists in hell are as follows:

    Fire: -50
    Cold: -20
    Lit: -42
    Poison: -50

    Yeah, they're that bad. Not anywhere remotely kinda sorta near max. I suppose I can start to fix this by putting a pDiamond in my Lidless Wall (it's empty right now). Should I do this?

    My fcr is only 50%, from the Occy/Lidless. I have a few extra Vipermagi, so I'll use one of those. That should also help with the resistances. Should I give my Skullders to my merc then?

    I've been trying to go max-block, that's why my dex is so high. I don't really know what max is though. Can you tell me how high it needs to be for max block with Lidless? My dex is currently 191 with items.

    My merc's equipment is great: he's using Reaper's Toll, Shaftstop, and an Ethereal pTopazed Harlequin Crest. I might have him use Skullder's instead though if I use Vipermagi. Is this a good idea?

    Thanks a lot for your strategies on the bosses, I will try them out tomorrow and tell you how they work out. One thing though: on Meph, you say to teleport directly to him and use the moat trick, just to watch out that I don't attract the council. Could you tell me how to not attract the council? Everytime I try they're all over me. How do I avoid them? I can kill Meph in the moat once I get him alone, but have trouble doing that. Thanks a lot for your help though.
     
  6. Griffin

    Griffin IncGamers Member

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    Also, I recently traded for an upgraded Vipermagi. It only has 30 to all resistances, but it has over 850 defense. It also came with a pTopaz in it. I assume this would be even better to use? I want to be sure because I like the Skullders I have so much, it gives so much magic find by itself. Should my merc use it over Shaftstop? Probably not... Should I just trade the Skullders away?
     
  7. melianor

    melianor D3 Wizard Moderator

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    Harlequin crest will get you closer. You are right without items your life will be around your range. Also good are small charms with life/mana and ofcourse Wizard Spike.

    Pdiamond in Lidless is a good choice 8), Also rare MF-boots with resists on them. Wizard spike again would be great, though you would have to sacrifice 3 +skills then. You would get +75 res, +50%fcr
    Or at least get some more equipment stuff!
    Leave your merc setup just like it is!

    You are using Lidless wall. To achieve Max-block with that shield you will need ALOT of dex. Other choices for your DEX are Visceratuant, Mosers Blessed Circle, Whistans guard. But you will loose on FCR there again, thought with Oculus, Vipermagi and 1 fast cast ring you can reach taht +63% fcr again ;)
    Top of the notch equipment. Sad you can really use that Harle yourself :/
    Leave him like he is. He can tank, Eldritch, Pindle and the mobs in the Pits easily.
    Sorry for the confusion.
    When go you go RIGHT up to him you DONT do the moattrick, you just stand right infront of Meph with your Merc! Thats all there is. You Teleport past the council to Mephisto. This way they cant reach you 8)
     
  8. tl998

    tl998 Banned

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    You may need more practice or something. I have over 140 base strength, and like 145 vitality after items I think. And i have about 400 base life. I can kill meph without dying just about 95% of the time (I died to a might-enchanted meph. He's crazy). How do I do it? I have max block, and maxed resists in hell (except poison). I can shrug allof meph's elemental attacks, and I also can't be frozen thanks to duri's shell. The council is more trouble than meph, so I can teleport directly ot meph and either tank him directly to save my merc (hah I know it's funny) or have my merc tank him and I feed him lots of potions. If I'm lucky I won't have to tp to save his life if I'm not I tp once at most. When meph's almost dead I tp out and seitch to my mf gear and I have roughly 400 mf. Then I go and kill meph with a few orbs.

    Note that I not have any of the following: Shaftstop, Harlequin Crest, SKulders Ire.

    My merc uses a gladiator's bane, an eth Arioc's needle, and a Tal's mask. Nothing fancy. You just need practice. Oh and I only have 50 fcr as well from magefist and occy.
     
  9. melianor

    melianor D3 Wizard Moderator

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    Nice explanation on how to do the bosses with a poorer build tl998 :D
    Thats about the way i startedbefore i got the usual gear!
     
  10. tl998

    tl998 Banned

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    The way people post on here, it makes me think everyone but ME has shako, sulkers, and shaftx10. It's SO easy to get 400 mf with just ptoapz items if you're willing to spen the half a minute to tp out, switch gears, and head back in.

    *sigh* Anyone feeling generous about giving away some "usual" mf gear? Meph dropped me a potion, an arrows, a pile of gold, and 2 isenhart's case last run. The runs before that weren't much better. :embarrass
     
  11. Griffin

    Griffin IncGamers Member

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    So assuming I don't switch equipment (I never have enough room to hold all that) what equipment should I be using? In particular, if Lidless is so bad for this, which one is the best for me to use? I can probably get most any shield easily except maybe SS, if it helps though, I already have a Rhyme runeword shield on my switch. Would that be a better choice? It has that cannot be frozen, has good resistances, and has good stats for blocking I believe. It also has 25%mf. Still no fcr though. I'm trying to figure out what equipment I should be using to achieve all this. How on earth do you max out resistances while not using a wizspike? I'd like to keep using the Occy, so wizspike isn't an option. If I get 30% res from my Skin of the Vipermagi Wyrmskin, 25% res from Rhyme (if I use that), where does the rest of it come from?

    About fcr, with Vipermagi and Occy I have 60%. Where's the best place to get the extra 3%?

    Also am I going to want the Skullder's later, or should I trade it away? If I'm going to be using it eventually I want to hold onto it, if not, I can probably trade it away for a Harlequin Crest and more. Thanks a lot for all your help, going to try some runs right now and see what happens.
     
  12. melianor

    melianor D3 Wizard Moderator

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    Hmm, i'd go with an upgraded Visceratuant if you are playing on Ladder
    Visceratuant:
    +1 skills
    increased chance of blocking
    Pdiamond for res.

    You can get max-res without Wizard Spike
    This would include Oculus, Maras Kaleidoskop, PDiamond shield, rings with res, boots with res (at least 2 kinds of res each)

    Then there is ofcourse Tal's set which will give you max res with just a little help, but i would not count this in since the armor is very expensive :p


    This is the setup for maxres i used before had Tal's. Meteorb sorc with max-block and max-res

    Wizard Spike +75 res
    Harlequin Crest PTopaz
    Rare +1 sorc amu with +10CR/LR/PR/17FR/20MF (you can have that if you like, wont use it anymore)
    Skin of Vipermagi +33 res Ptopaz
    Visceratuant upgraded to Heater with Pdiamond giving 72% block
    Raven frost ring
    Magic ring 10% FCR, 14% MF (found or gambled, cant remember) With such a ring you could get 70%FCR with Oculus and Vipermagi
    Belt Goldwrap (later Arachnid Mesh)
    Chanceguards
    Rare boots with CR/LR and 22%mf (gambled)

    That gave me +5(+6 with arachnid mesh) skills and max resists. Could not wish for more. I killed Ancients/Baal on Hell this setup. If you want more +skills you could stick with Oculus and sacrifice a bit on Res.

    Wizard Spike, Visceratuant are cheap items. A good Vipermagi (above 30 allres) might cost a bit. Magic rings with FCR and MF can be gambled (infact i still use that ring now at lvl88), just as boots and amu. the mau mentioned above is a gambled one. You can also try crafting caster amus.
    again that amu you can have if you like.

    I wont list any more dreamgear here, since this is rather useless if you are not rich.

    EDIT: One thing i completly forgot. To have "enough" MF i had Ali Baba and Rhyme Shield on switch! This has not changed much at higher lvls. I have Gull dagger (100%mf) and rhyme on switch ;)

    Ali baba sword is cheap nowadays. If you like you can have one for free aswell ;)
     
  13. Griffin

    Griffin IncGamers Member

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    That set up only has a little more than 200% mf though: I'd like to keep mine at at least 300%, preferably around 350%. Is Visceratuant really better thna Rhyme though? They both block at about the same rate, but Rhyme has all these additional bonuses, like can't be frozen and mf. All Visc has over it is the +1 to skills, but I'm going to be using the Occy so I think I can afford to not use that.

    I tried doing some of the runs, following your suggestions. I made an Eddritch/Shenk run work for the first time, that worked pretty well. There are still problems though: a lot of the time Eldritch has some tricky enchantment that kills me before I can heal, and kills my merc too. Also, there are often these skeleton archers up there that hit REALLY hard. A few shots and I'm dead, but they hang out in groups, so sometimes I'm dead before I know what hit me. Will increasing my resistances help me survive against them?

    About Meph, I'm still having the same problems. All the strategies you described that didn't use the moat trick failed: he would just kill my merc in a few hits, then kill me. Could you please explain how to defeat him using the moat trick? You didn't really say it up there. And how do you avoid the council members while he's stuck in the moat. Thanks though, these strategies have helped.
     
  14. Griffin

    Griffin IncGamers Member

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    Wow, I'm actually glad that run didn't work. Meph absolutely murdered me, so I went to NM Eldritch/Shenk to get some gold and NM Eldritch just dropped me a near perfect Ravenfrost. Yippee! That'll come in handy.
     
  15. melianor

    melianor D3 Wizard Moderator

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    200%MF ?

    Harlequin Crest: 74%
    Vipermagi Ptopaz: 24%
    Chance guard: 37%
    Goldwrap: 30%
    Ring: 14%
    Boots: 22%
    Amulet: 20%

    on switch for boss-kill:
    Gull: 100% or Ali Baba lvl86 -> 86%MF
    Rhyme: 25%

    with alibaba this is 332%MF with Gull this is 346 %MF

    Now for the shields:
    There is a BIG difference. I was talking about an upgraded Visceratuant which has 72% Blokcing after the upgrade and not 60% like Rhyme or normal Visceratuant. 12%+ Blocking makes alot of difference! So since you already have invested that much into Dex Visceratuant would be an option.
    Also you will need LESS Dex to achieve Max-blocking (meaning a chance of 75% block) with Visceratuant.
    Infact you already reach that if you would equip Visceratuant!
    Just hoover your mouse over your Defense rating in the Stats window and you should see your blocking chance.

    Concerning your boss-runs: If your merc gets cursed get him and you OUT OF there. Said so further up ;) Otherwise i really cant see how he gets killed?

    Without at least positive res in Lightning and Cold it will not be likely possible for you to stand right infront of Mephisto.

    FCR, Resist and Life are crucial!
    Apart from that i think you need alot more pratice until you get used to the different mobs. I died alot before aswell.

    ALSO try to place your merc between yourself and the monsters. Then walk away a bit so monsters dont try attacking you but your merc instead. With the Mercs setup its a miracle he dies unless he gets hit really hard by Pindle or has to suffer more from Mephisto.

    The moatrick i never used, sorry. I always stood right up at him or ran around blasting Forzen Orb. For that standing real close you will need higher resists and max-block, meaing achieveing a blocking rate of 75%.
     
  16. tl998

    tl998 Banned

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    Even without a merc you can still frozen orb Meph's behind back to the burning hells. If you're not at close range he'll throw spells at you. The frozen ball you can sidestep easily. The chain lightning you can do the same dependinging on distance (but it shouldn't one hit KO you). The charged bolt you can teleport thru on reaction, and lastly blizzard is the greatest thread. Try to teleport out of there immeidately if you can. Most of the time meph will throw lightning and frozen balls at you, so just run, cast a FO, then run some more. rinse and repeat.
     
  17. melianor

    melianor D3 Wizard Moderator

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    just what i told him aswell *sigh* :)
     
  18. Fafner

    Fafner IncGamers Member

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    Griffin, your post scares me a little. I have about the same Meteorb sorc, a little better equip and I'm just entering Hell. I thought this build was MADE for Meph killing. Anyway, I hope you farmed NM Baal for all he was worth before you moved on to Hell. I think he drop a Shako, he certainly can drop Bonehew and Heaven's Light, as I got them the other night. The best thing is that on players3, these runs take 4-5 min (dang council members). I do play SP so this may not be valid for you, but I think that even single player runs on Baal can be profitable. If you need that mosers, go run NM Meph, he'll drop it and you can move up from there. Another trick that works for my merc is using an upgraded eth Woestave...sounds stupid doesn't it, crap for damage, but it's like a Kelpie with extras, it freezes monsters..i.e. non-boss pack people that swarm your merc and put the hurt on. I also noticed that it basically works like a poormans Decrepify, if you teleport next to Baal to static him, and your merc hits him with Woestave he slows to a crawl, you can just orb away and he won't even attack or teleport. I tried an experiment and switched to using Bonehew and Guillaumes Face on Baal and he made my life a lot harder, duping himself, teleporting around, it was annoying. I'll know today if this works on Hell, btw he uses a Tals helmet for LL, and Rattlecage for CB and flee (they run and don't mob him). I'm shooting for socketing the Woestave with an Amn if this proves viable in Hell and giving him Guillaumes face to up the CB to 58% which works pretty well for my Skelliemancer (his merc has a Hone Sundan with 45% CB and he always kills Baal while i sit back and spam Bone Spirit, just to do something while the decrepify is working)...If all else fails, (I hate to post this on the Sorc. forum, since Sorc's rock) make a Skelliemancer for basic MFing until you get the stuff you need to make your Sorc the MF monster she should be.
     
  19. petri

    petri IncGamers Member

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    Hi,
    If you can master the moat trick, Meph is cake for both meteor and blizzard builds.

    The trick is finding the sweet spot, and making sure you are not being chased by the council, etc. I find the best way to do that is make sure the council won't interfere. IF the council is at the end of the middle platform, closest to the red portal, then I drag them back away from there (using myself as bait). Otherwise, ignore them and tele quickly past them.

    I'm pretty sure that the moat trick has been been detailed quite well in other posts (not sure if the posts have expired), but once you get the placement down, you can do a meph run with non-max resists (I like them to still be slightly positive), and almost never die.

    The 63% fcr is absolutely essential to make it to meph alive though.

    Since you don't care about MF or killing while teleporting to meph, why not use wizspike & lidless on switch while tele? This gives 70% fcr, and allows you to still use skullders, which is a much better mf armor than ptopaz vipermagi.

    Then your weapon switch can be occy (50%mf) + rhyme (25%mf) for decent killing power, or for less killing power gull (100%mf) or ali baba + rhyme.

    Figure out the moat trick and you will easily be able to farm meph.
     
  20. Andrew

    Andrew IncGamers Member

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    Just wanted to point out that you can't leach from mephisto...

    So if you really plan on running him non stop, swithc merc gear to soemthing else other than tal's =D
     

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