MF Oddballs - Issue #3 (includes previous issues)

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
MF Oddballs - Issue #3 (includes previous issues)

Intro

In this work in progress I'll be reporting the performance of my chars as far as MF is concerned. Normally you'd create a character for the purpose of running specific targets. What I did with this is take the backwards approach: Play the char because (s)he was fun to play and then look at what he can reasonably run. Remember this before you tell me that hammerdins are better MFers than WWsins. :)

And in case you're wondering why there are some cookie cutters and some "wacky" chars in the same thread... Well, that's because I'm just putting everything I played in here. The true MF chars as well as the true oddballs.

The first part of this will contain basic info that might be interesting for you. Most of it is probably known to you already but I'm gonna rely on these things later on so I thought I might as well summarise them quickly for ya.

Version History:
Issue #1: First Draft; Chars: Blizzard Sorc
Issue #2: Updated Info on player settings, fixed error in MF calculations; Added Chars: WWsin, LF/PJzon
Issue #3:Added Chars: LF/Strafezon; Iron Golemmancer; Meteorb Sorc; CL/FO Sorc; Fishymancer

MF - Diminishing Returns
Code:
MF         Uniques    Increase
50         42         42
100        71         29
150        94         23
200        111        17
250        125        14
300        136        11
350        146        10
400        154        8
450        161        7
500        167        6
550        172        5
600        176        4
650        181        5
700        184        3
750        188        4
800        190        2
850        193        3
900        196        3
950        198        2
1000       200        2
The first column is the MF on your char, the second is the actual MF for unique items. The third one is just for reference, it shows how much the last 50% actually gave you.

As you can see diminishing returns affect MF quite a bit. Take a look at 200%MF vs 1000%MF. The MF on your gear increases by a factor of 5 (five!) while the actual MF doesn't even double.

This is something to keep in mind when balancing offensive gear vs MF gear. After all, your goal is to find the setup that gives you the most items, not the setup that gives you the most MF (and also not the setup that kills the fastest).


Kill Speed vs MF

One of the central questions when outfitting your char is "Do I focus on MF or Offense?". (assuming you already have defence covered; Defence as in making your char survive, not as in Defence Rating) Okay, how do we answer this? Hm... Aha! Third grade maths to the rescue! :teeth: Anyway, here's a totally made up example for ya:

Let's say you're torn between using your 50% MF Amulet and Mara's Kaleidoscope on your Meteorb Sorc. What you now need to do is to do a couple runs with either setup and compare that. I'd say around 10 runs should be okay.

Kill Speed:
With the mara's she does her run in 563 seconds and with the MF ammy it takes her 619 seconds. So the mara's makes her 9% faster.

MF:
With mara's the sorc has 350% MF (246% unique MF) and wit the MF ammy she has 400% (254% unique MF), which is a net increase of 3.25% unique MF. This is actually an increase of 1.28% compared to what she had before (3.25% divided by 254%)

Conclusion:
In this example it would be much more beneficial for our sorc to wear the mara's ammy, even if it had no resis on it at all.


Alright, that was the scientific way of doing it. What I actually do with most of my chars is to just put about 200% MF on my chars and then focus on killing gear. But if you want to really refine your MF gear this is what you should do.


Player Settings:
This is one of the areas people make the most mistakes in. A lot of folks just type "/players 8" and assume that's the way to go for MF. It's not.

Before I get started, let me include something that has recently been discovered:

Thrugg said:
Just to summarise for everyone who can't be bothered following the math:

Extra players added using the /players command only count as unpartied players. This makes no difference to what we already knew for monster HP and XP. It does change what we thought was happening with drops. Unpartied players count as halves rounded down. So, when using the Atma drop calculator, you need to translate your /players setting into the number you put into the Players field:

1 or 2 -> 1
3 or 4 -> 2
5 or 6 -> 3
7 or 8 -> 4

This affects all monsters, not just Mephisto, although for unique monsters like Pindle and random bosses that have fixed drops, it won't actually change any numbers.
As far as I get it, it the gist of it is that 1) Adding players does a lot less than we thought. And 2) For drops you should have an odd number of players in the game.


Now, let's get down to buisness, starting with area: I don't really want to go too deeply into the maths of it. Sumendar did the numbers on it, updated to include thrugg's info:

Sumendar said:
5) I did the math for the pit once. Approximating 150 regular monsters, 6 champions and 8 uniques, you'll get as many sets/uniques if you spend the time in column 2 at players setting in column 1:
Code:
plrs    time
1       1
2       1.16
3       1.26
4       1.32
This means that if you are running at players 7 you have exactly 1.32 times as much time to do your run as you had at players 1. Same for players 8 but with the same number of drops.

Bottom line: Areas are almost always best run at players 1 for sets and uniques.


Similar things are true for act bosses, though the longer time it takes to get to them or the ease with which you can kill them might justify running them at higher settings. Personally I like to use 5 for andariel, 1 or 3 for meph and 1 or 3 for baal. Usually I will just leave meph and baal at 1, though. They give me good stuff like that was well and I don't think it's usually worth the wait. A blizzard sorc vs meph is an exception, though. He goes down so fast it doesn't matter if you're on 1 or 3. As a rule of thumb, if you notice a difference in run time, don't up the players.

Inventory Space
In the light of the diminishing returns table for MF it probably makes no sense to cram our inventory completely full of MF charms. Even if you only save a couple seconds per run by not having to open your inventory you're already more efficient than you'd be with another few MF charms.

Personally I like to pick up various things as I MF: Gems, Runes, White Items, Grey Items, Rare Items, Sets & Uniques. If I put each of these in the cube and then somehow juggle them from there to my stash in town I lose way more time than the effect of any charms could be worth. I like to have at least a 4x2 space clean of charms. If I expect frequent trips to town (mephisto, pindle, andariel) I expand that to 4x4 to generate money for other runs that require to revive mercs from time to time.

In case you didn't already do that, I'd suggest to arrange your inventory so that the cube is next to the free space. Just speeds up things by another bit.


The Targets:

Here I'll quickly go over each of the targets and list the benefits of each as well as what you can expect them to drop. All of these are in Hell, of course.

Andariel
Andariel is a good target for rings and amulets. Without teleport runs are going to take a while since you need to cross two levels which makes getting a good map more time consuming. Player settings affect her more than the other act bosses, I'd recommend 5 if you can take her there.

Personally I would recommend running her only if you are really desperate for a ring / ammy and are willing to waste some time on it. Reason being that in the end it's inefficient to run her. Let's say you want a lightsabre and a highlord's wrath. If you start running andy for the highlord and then proceed to meph for the lightsabre you'll end up wasting more time in total than if you had started at meph who can drop everything andy can and then some.

Mephisto
One of the best targets around. Getting a good map is pretty easy since you only need to cross one level. The highest of the directly accessible act bosses, too. You can reasonably expect him to drop up to TC72, waiting for TC78 - which is his limit - is just not worth it. Player settings affect him less which is why I usually run him at 1.

WS K & Baal
I have these combined since baal is basically just the icing on the cake that is the WS K. As all the alvl 85 areas the WS K is capable of dropping *every* item in the game. Mainly this means that if you find a gold sacred armour it has a shot at being tyrael's.

Baal himself is often misunderstood, mainly because people expect too much of him. His chance to drop a TC87 item isn't high so other targets show you a lot more hydra bows or collossus blades. And Meph can be run a lot faster than him, too, which makes it a lot more painful if baal drops you nothing good. But what you should consider that baal has a very high chance of dropping you set or better, which basically means if he does drop you a TC87 item it's got a great chance at being good.

Overall this is my favorite run since it's the least boring and offers the most variety with the random monster spawns. You do need a half decent char, though.

Alvl 85 Areas
There are several of those besides the WS K. The ones I'll be dealing with in this guide are the more popular ones for now: The Pit (Act 1, Tamoe Highland's); The Forgotten Tunnels (Act 2, Lost City) and the River of Flame (Act 2)

All of these have the chance of dropping you every item in the game. However I can't help but compare them to the WS K and where the WS K has baal waiting at the end, all these have is a sparkly chest at best. As a consequence of that I only run these if my chars can't take the WS K.


Boss Packs per alvl 85 Area (by Summendar)
Code:
area                min   max
Mausoleum            4      5
Pit Level 1          6      8
Pit Level 2          2      3
Maggot Lair 3        4      5
Ancient Tunnels      6      8
Forgotten Temple     2      2
Ruined Fane          2      2
Disused Reliquary    2      2
River Of Flame       6      7
Chaos Sanctuary      6      7
WSK 1                6      8
WSK 2                6      8
WSK 3                6      8
Throne               4      5
Couple that with the size of each area and you've got the good ones and the bad ones. For example, the River of Flame is a bad pick for MFing because it's huge but has no more boss packs than comparable smaller areas. Shermo pointed out that the Pit Level 2 has 4 bosses for him which means these numbers will yet have to be confirmed. You're welcome to contribute here.

Pindleskin
Very quick runs, pretty boring for some people, other people swear by them. The charging undead may be dicey for some chars but no problem for others. Pindleskin cannot drop you three items: Azurewrath, Arachnid Mesh and Tyrael's Might. The only relevant of these, the tyrael's might is the only one that really matters. You can get the other two of hell mephisto with some effort.

However, if you are going for a selffound grail it is a bad idea to run pindleskin if you don't already have a tyrael's might. Reason is the same as with andariel. In the end you'll need to run an alvl 85 area for tyrael's and it's quite likely that everything else will drop before tyrael's so you're wasting time on pindle.

The Countess
I've added her mainly because she's an okay target for mid level runes. I wouldn't waste much time running her but if you need a Hel in a hurry this is where you need to go. Getting a good map takes ages, though.

Character Rankings:
Each char is rated for each area on this scale.

Very Poor
Poor
Below Average
Average
Decent
Good
Very Good
Excellent

If I feel like it I might establish a hierarchy later on, or find some other way to quickly compare the chars. For now this works for me. I just want to know where to run if I want to play any given character.

The Characters
From here on there'll be a growing list of my guardians that I use for MFing. For this first try I'll not list their specific gear, only the mandatory items. Reason being that I don't really want responses like "Omg, I don't have Full Tal's Set, this is useless1!1!11onethreeelelven"


<Please wait for me to post once more before replying to this. The forum doesn't seem to support single posts long enough for my guides anymore. Thanks>
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Sorceresses

Meteorb

Skills: 20 Meteor, 20 Fireball, 20 Fire Mastery, 1+ Cold Mastery, 20 Frozen Orb, 1 Static Field, 1 Warmth, 1 Telekinesis, 1 Teleport

Recommended items: Skills for the Sorc, CB for merc.

Run Ratings:
Code:
Countess               Decent
Andariel               Excellent
Meph                   Excellent
Pindle                 Excellent
Baal & WS K            Excellent
Pit                    Excellent
Ancient Tunnels        Excellent
River of Flame         Excellent
Alvl 85 Areas          Excellent
Thoughts:
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner. Yes, I know, big surprise, everyone knows meteorbs are good for MFing. I find her to be able to run everything she wants to with no problems whatsoever. Definetly one of the best MF chars out there, especially since there is almost nothing she cannot run easily, in contrast to blizzard sorcs who excel at some tasks but suck for others. Don't really need to say much about this one. She has no clear favorite target though I always run baal with her, just because she's good at it and I can run other targets with chars that cannot handle baal.


Blizzard

Skills: 20 Blizzard, 20 Iceblast, 20 Glacial Spike, 15+ Cold Mastery 1+ Ice Bolt, 1+ Static Field, 1 Warmth, 1 Telekinesis, 1 Teleport

Mandatory items: 2x Hel Bonehew for Baal Runs. The CE charges take care of the cold immune mages that accompany achmel.

Run Ratings:
Code:
Countess               Average
Andariel               Excellent
Meph                   Excellent
Pindle                 Excellent
Baal & WS K            Good
Pit                    Below Average
Ancient Tunnels        Excellent
River of Flame         Below Average
Alvl 85 Areas          Below Average (depending on cold immunes)
Thoughts:
Decent MF Char. Probably the best Mephisto Runner there is. She does very well on pindle as well, glacial spike halts the charge and blizzard does him in very quickly.

Her alvl 85 area is the ancients tunnels which cannot spawn cold immunes but she does very well in the WS K as well. Levels 2 and 3 can only spawn on kind of cold immune monster and on level 3 that's only a sidekick type which means it only occurs in low numbers.

The throne of destrucition is a different matter. That spawns cold immunes left and right. Usually it'll be best to teleport to baal and try and clear the throne room itself only. The only CI minions are the aforementioned mages. When achmel spawns, drop a blizzard and teleport in, cast static twice and then follow up with a second blizzard, followed by 1-2 CEs. That should kill the whole pack in about 4-5 seconds if you time it right. The key to this is to be quick about it and to get all the mages with your static. For that reason I like to be 17 or higher. Personally I'd draw points from ice bolt and put them in static. When you get right down to it that does way more than 200 or so extra damage.

On a sidenote, the other cold skills aren't just synergies to blizzard, they are actually useful. Glacial spike is good if you need to freeze several monsters. (freezes for about 5 seconds in hell for my sorc) Ice Blast is a very good single target attack and can be spammed between blizzards. And it freezes pretty much forever. Ice Bolt however is utterly useless, which is why I'd max this synergy last or not at all.

Chain Lightning / Lightning / Frozen Orb

Skills: 20 CL, 20 Lightning, 20 LM, 20 FO, 1 Cold Mastery, 1+ Static Field, 1 Warmth, 1 Telekinesis, 1 Teleport

Mandatory items: none

Recommended items: +skills, +mana, increases mana by X%, 37+% FCR, CB for merc (vs act bosses)

Run Ratings:
Code:
Countess               Excellent
Andariel               Good
Meph                   Good
Pindle                 Very Good
Baal & WS K            Very Good
Pit                    Very Good
Ancient Tunnels        Very Good
River of Flame         Very Good
Alvl 85 Areas          Very Good
Thoughts:
Another good MF char. Just as with all the obvious MFers there's not really much to say about her. Frozen Orb is well known for it's usefulness but the lightning spells are stronger than they are given credit for. Static Field + Chain Lightning is her primary attack vs groups of monsters, Lightning is pretty strong vs single targets. Main issue is the rate at which CL burns mana. Static field helps deal with that, though. With around 20 soft points in it it covers enough of the screen to be useful for area runs. The few points drawn out of her synergies are repaid tenfold.

Now, on to the targets: Teleport + Lightning damage makes her excel at countess runs. Teleport helps for running andariel as well. She's not my prime choice for this, though. Frozen Orb + Merc's CB is enough to take care of meph as well. Again, she'd not be my main choice for that. She can run pindle pretty quickly, too. Chain Lightning until most of the minons are gone and then lightning or FO to finish pindle if he's still standing. This requires a somewhat durable merc, though.

Her best target are area runs, though, imo. Two elements, decent level of static, GG areas. She's not the perfect area runner but she's definetly good for that. She's pretty much equally good everywhere since I kept her cold and lightning attacks about equally strong. My favorite runs for her is baal.


Assassins

Whirlwind/Traps Hybrid

Skills: 20 Claw Mastery, 20 Venom, 20 Death Sentry, 20 Lightning Sentry, 1 Cloak of Shadows, 0-1 Mind Blast (useful only vs Lister)

Mandatory items: Chaos Suwayyah (duh?)

Recommended items: Guillauem's Face (PTopaz), Gore Riders, Highlord's Wrath, Jade Talon (Shael), Dual Bartuc's on Switch, Demon Limb for Enchant, AR charms, Trap Charms, Skullder's or similar armour for MF, String of Ears, Laying of Hands

Run Ratings:
Code:
Countess               Average to Good
Andariel               Good
Meph                   Decent
Pindle                 Average to Good (dangerous in HC)
Baal & WS K            Good to Excellent
Pit                    Good
Ancient Tunnels        Average to Good
River of Flame         Excellent
Alvl 85 Areas          Average to Excellent (leech!)
Thoughts:
Much to my surprise this is a very good MF char. In your face everyone who said making chaos was a waste of runes! (j/k) Her displayed damage is rather low, but she makes up for it with crushing blow and a 2 frame attack. Once the first corpses appear she lays down a few death sentries and it's GG. Her main weakness at first glance is iron maiden, but the trap half of her can easily take out oblivon knights with no danger to her person whatsoever.

She's not really specialised, can run pretty much every target or area. Leeching is an issue, though. So long as leechable and unleechable enemies are mixed everything is fine, but if you are facing solely unleechable enemies it pays to play a trapper for a while or MF another area.

I think the best areas for her are the pits and the WS K / Baal. Cloak of shadows deals with ranged attackers and gloams and crushing blow at 2 FPA makes short work of baal. She can also run the river of flame very easily since everything there can be leeched which means she's pretty much immortal. Reason why I'm not running that area with her is that I think the concentration of bosses seems to be lower there. (That's something I'll need to look into, how many bosses spawn in each area, or rather, how long does it take to get from one boss to another in any given area.)

The "worst" are probably meph and pindle. Meph simply because sorcs are faster and you can't leech him at all. You can probably kill him but I think you can do more meaningful things with this char. Pindle is only bad for me because I play HC and one good charge with curse & damage enhancing mods could obliterate me outright. If I had enigma I could TP into the temple and lay down traps while my merc gets the first corpse. That'd boost her pindle rating to plain Good.

Overall I like her very much for MFing. I found her extremely fun to play and MFing is enjoyable. She might be slightly too dangerous to run with in HC in the long run but I'll find that out soon enough. One thing to watch out for are resistances if you're relying on fade and jade talon. I have maxed lightning resist on my main switch with fade and am probably in the negatives on my trap switch without fade. A good reason to cast death sentries on my chaos switch.


Amazons

Lightning Fury / Plague Javelin

Skills: 20 LF, 20 Plague Javelin, 20 Poison Javelin, 1 Jab, 1+ Penetrate, 10+ Valkyrie, 1+ D/A/E, 1+ Pierce

Mandatory items: None

Recommended items: +Skills for areas, Crushing Blow vs Act Bosses, Nature's Peace


Run Ratings:
Code:
Countess               Good
Andariel               Decent
Meph                   Average
Pindle                 Excellent
Baal & WS K            Very Good
Pit                    Excellent
Ancient Tunnels        Very Good
River of Flame         Good
Alvl 85 Areas          Very Good
Thoughts:
Well, this one is another good allrounder. MFs areas pretty good due to her multi target attacks, is pretty safe due to valk, a shield and being ranged. Her only real weakness is the fact that some normal enemies are poison and lightning immune (gloams, for example).

She does a good job in all of the areas. The WS K can be a bit tricky for her if PoiI/LIs spawn but her merc and jab can usually take care of those until she fought her way to the stairs. Baal's minions go down nicely, mostly due to LF, LF kills everything. o_O Plague Javelin does an okay job too. Jab & CB takes down Baal pretty fast, PJ does the rest.

I wouldn't really run meph with her unless I really had to. Main reason for that it's just impossible to beat sorcs in that area and this char has other options available to her.

She does a nice number on pindle as well. Just cast the valk and let lightning fly. Well, nothing special about that, almost everybody does a nice number on pindy.


Lightning Fury / Strafe

Skills: 20 LF, 20 Valk, 20 Penetrate, 1 Jab, 1+ Pierce, , 1+ D/A/E, 1+ Crit, 1+ Strafe

Mandatory items: None

Recommended items: +Skills for areas, Crushing Blow vs Act Bosses, Nature's Peace, High Damage Bow, Fortitude if applicable


Run Ratings:
Code:
Countess               Good
Andariel               Decent
Meph                   Average
Pindle                 Excellent
Baal & WS K            Very Good
Pit                    Excellent
Ancient Tunnels        Very Good
River of Flame         Very Good
Alvl 85 Areas          Very Good to Excellent
Thoughts:
A good MF build but somewhat item dependant. At least if you plan to kill anything with strafe. If you want to get her killed you kinda have to go AFK or just mindlessly charge into monsters for no good reason. Tends to be more of a LFzon with strafe for LIs than anything else. Just like the LF/PJzon she's better at area runs than at act boss runs. Her attacks are aimed at dealing with multiple threats and are less effective vs single targets. Of course she can kill act bosses with the help of CB and her merc but she's slower at it than a lot of other chars which is why I wouldn't run meph with her. My strafer is either hanging out in the pits or at baal's place with good success.




Necromancers

Iron Golemancer

Skills: 20 CE, 20 Fire Golem, 20 Golem Mastery, 1+ Summon Resist, 1+ Amp, 1+ Attract, 1 Decrep, 1 Revive, 20 Bone Spear OR Spirit

Mandatory items: Stuff for the Iron Golem (IK Mauls, Windhammers, etc)

Recommended items: +skills / mana items for the necro, High damage weapon & CB for the merc; Naj's Puzzler, Marrowwalk if using Bone Spell

Run Ratings:
Code:
Countess               Good
Andariel               Good
Meph                   Good
Pindle                 Excellent
Baal & WS K            Excellent
Pit                    Excellent
Ancient Tunnels        Excellent
River of Flame         Good
Alvl 85 Areas          Good to Excellent
Thoughts:
Well, as was to be expected the necro performs well at MF. Crushing blow from merc & Golem, along with the merc's and golem's sheer damage take care of act bosses. Not quite as well as some other chars but well enough. Pindle goes down real quick as well. This build's true strength lies in areas, however.

Basically the only area he's got some issues with is the river of flame where urdar's stun your minions. This requires you to wake up and cast attract, which is why he scores only "good" there. You can keep snoozing for the other areas.

His strat is pretty much the same as with a skelliemancer: Wait until your minions kill something and cast CE. The difference is that an item is required for the iron golem and that it's a little less safe. Baal runs are pretty much the only thing that endangers the golem (iron maiden, lister's stun), but with a little care he'll survive just fine. Using a bonespell doesn't do much but it does give him a good way of killing PI succubi. Revives are pretty much only there to take the heat off my two important minions. They're what makes baal runs easy.

With the synergy bug removed in 1.11 this build takes a (small) hit, mostly vs PIs where BS really helped some. If I were to rebuild him I'd probably draw 5 points from CE, 10 from Golem Mastery and try to max BSpear and BSpirit and see how that goes.

Necromancers

Fishymancer

Skills: 20 CE, 20 RS, 20 SM, 1+ Summon Resist, 1+ Amp, 1+ Attract, 1 Decrep, 1+ Revive, 20 in accessory skill of choice

Recommended items: +skills / mana items for the necro, High damage weapon & CB for the merc; Naj's Puzzler, (Marrowwalk if using Bone Spell in 1.10); Weapon with CB / damage for Iron Golem if applicable

Run Ratings:
Code:
Countess               Good
Andariel               Excellent
Meph                   Good
Pindle                 Excellent
Baal & WS K            Excellent
Pit                    Excellent
Ancient Tunnels        Excellent
River of Flame         Excellent
Alvl 85 Areas          Good to Excellent
Thoughts:
Well, what do I think of "my" necro? I w uv him of course. Imo the best choice for a HC MF char since he forgives sloppiness better than anything else. Like a lot of the good MF chars he can run anything he chooses and good speed while wearing as much MF as he needs to. He has no real issues with anything. Iron Maiden slows him down somewhat but only barely. Personally I run the WS K / Baal exclusively with this guy. If I need to go other places I do that with chars that cannot take baal. I'm not going more into detail since I've written all I need to say about him in the guide and added the MF stuff in the WS K Mini Guide.


Acknowledgements / Thanks to: (in no particular order)
Shakes for pointing out a mistake in my maths
Zertuals_Ovrlrd for pointing out that my Blizz Sorc has Cold Mastery
Mankey and Shermo for first pointing out to me that only odd player numbers increase drops.
Sumendar for his math on drops by bosses vs drops by minions in the Pit. Also thanks for the number of boss packs per area.
Thrugg for the stuff on player settings
RTB for some other stats I certainly used for this. (also for his mods ^_^ )
The Diablo 2 Single Player Community in general. I probably wouldn't have maintained interest in this game for as long as I have without you guys.
My characters for surviving the experiments so far.




Well, that's it for issue #3. I realise this is a pretty minor update, only 5 new chars and no new info besides that. Reason why I post it now is that the general part is probably as complete as I like it to be and I'm probably not adding new chars for quite some time now. Going through a phase of D2 burnout right now, neither MFing nor Questing is much fun at the moment so I thought I'd get this out before a possible hiatus.

(oh yeah: it's okay to use the thread from here downwards for questions and comments. ;))
 

Summoned

Diabloii.Net Member
Awesome job as usual, NF. :thumbsup:

Now just a minior mistake (?). Apparently your iron golemancer maxed fire golem? :lol:
 

essojay

Diabloii.Net Member
Great job on another article. :thumbsup:

I get the impression that the meteorb is overrated, but I'm not questioning your judgement.
 

Sint Nikolaas

Diabloii.Net Member
summoned, you really should take a look at your synergy map before making a statement like that :p

looks good, fish :) IMO you can easily take the skillpoints and max two boneskills on that golemancer.
 

Summoned

Diabloii.Net Member
Sint: I was under the impression that one uses the iron golem to reflect damage. Never mind now. :p
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
essojay said:
I get the impression that the meteorb is overrated, but I'm not questioning your judgement.
Well keep in mind that I'm not really trying to compare characters to find out which is the best MF char. That's probably at least somewhat subjective and would create more arguments than I care to deal with. What I'm trying to do is to find out how well each char can run any given area / target. And my experience is that the meteorb sorc can run anything she bloody well pleases and is quick about it as well.

sint nikolaas said:
looks good, fish IMO you can easily take the skillpoints and max two boneskills on that golemancer.
Yeah, the fact that I've added revives makes it less necessary to have maxed golemmastery since 5+ revives keep the IG safe enough. Problem is my necro already has those skills maxed and I'm not replaying him just for a small test. Well, no biggy since I'm staying in 1.10 for now.

Summoned said:
Sint: I was under the impression that one uses the iron golem to reflect damage. Never mind now. :p
Reflect damage sucks ;) Only works vs melee monsters and isn't a lot to begin with. My Iron Golem kills stuff in two hits...
 

ehertlein

Diabloii.Net Member
Nightfish said:
Reflect damage sucks ;) Only works vs melee monsters and isn't a lot to begin with. My Iron Golem kills stuff in two hits...
Thanks for this post Nightfish. It has helped me a ton. My current Fishymancer is doing decently, but is really lacking in items that would speed up his play so I created a Meteorb sorc. Wow does she move fast compared to my summoner! I found all sorts of great stuff by killing the act bosses on normal and nightmare.

Got a quick question for you... are you using you're guide and still ending up with an Iron Golem that works so well? I don't think my golems survive for more then a few minutes im my games. Im always recasting the fire golem while running and the clay golem while fighting bosses.
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
If your sorc moves a lot faster than the skelliemancer I think you're doing something wrong with the necro. ;) The only thing she's really faster at is meph runs.

Got a quick question for you... are you using you're guide and still ending up with an Iron Golem that works so well? I don't think my golems survive for more then a few minutes im my games. Im always recasting the fire golem while running and the clay golem while fighting bosses
.

Well, we're talking of two different builds here: A skelliemancer and a golemmancer. Look at the different skill allocation (do a search for "Dalariath" if you're interested in details about the golemmancer) and that gives you one reason why my golems last a while. Another is that I use teleport to save him when he gets below 25% health. Which doesn't really happen a lot. Add to that the fact that the fishymancer has about 20-30 minions running around and the golemmancer has 10, too.

Finally, here's the complete list of things that kill my iron golems:

[/begin list]
1) Iron Maiden
[/end list]
 

Humphrey

Diabloii.Net Member
Nightfish said:
Finally, here's the complete list of things that kill my iron golems:

[/begin list]
1) Iron Maiden
[/end list]
Don't they sometimes randomly dissappear? I had that problem with my clay golem sometimes.
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Yes, if I try real hard to get him stuck somewhere and then dash the other way he sometimes disappears. But I don't really do that. If you pay just a tiny bit of attention the golem's excellent pathfinding keeps him right at your side and if he does get lost a single TP charges brings him back. But I only need to do that every 5 baal runs or so.
 

kuafu

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm a little surprised that Hammerdin is not included (I know that this is SPF and Enigma is generally out of the question, but still for the sake of completeness:smiley:). A great post though, nice to read (and bookmark).
Edit: Oops, I just bumped a 1.5-year old thread:embarassed:, very sorry about that! (Blame the one who linked this in one of today's threads...:tongue:)
 

Thyiad

Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian
I linked it because it is a good guide. You obviously thought so when you read it. It would appear the dates are still printed on posts. :tongue:
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Nice to see some of my stuff is still around here. :D Anyway, kuafu asked why there was no Hammerdin: I did not have a hammerdin guardian to MF with at the point when I wrote this. Simple as that.
 

Nerigazh

Diabloii.Net Member
Whoa... seeing Nightfish post is a bit like meeting your favorite actor in real life! I wish I'd found the SPF sooner, back when he still played :smiley:
 

zarfen

Diabloii.Net Member
pff, nerigazh, you litle suckup :wink3:
No just kidding, I so also really appreciate all the work NF has done for this comunity.
And he will always be a spf celebrity as long as the good old fishymancer is a popular build :grin:
Long time since I saw him post too, but maybe he is one of those people that actually gets something done in the game, rather than sitting on the spf all day (like 'I do) :p

edit: also, his avatar is cool :cool: locke?, ff6? or am I mistaking myself?
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Whoa... seeing Nightfish post is a bit like meeting your favorite actor in real life! I wish I'd found the SPF sooner, back when he still played :smiley:
Favorite actor, ey? Damn man... o_O So, does that mean I get groupies too? Would they be hot?

Hey, the fish is back! Are you completing your guardians project?
Doubtful. I'm considering to fire up D2 again but I have 2 instances. One on my laptop and one on my harddisk. They're kinda similar (and huge, due to like 40 characters and 20 stashes) and it's hard to figure out which to use since they dates overlap. (translation: Duuuurrrrrr, Fisheh R dumB!1!1 Duuuurrrrrrr!!)

pff, nerigazh, you litle suckup :wink3:
No just kidding, I so also really appreciate all the work NF has done for this comunity.
And he will always be a spf celebrity as long as the good old fishymancer is a popular build :grin:
Long time since I saw him post too, but maybe he is one of those people that actually gets something done in the game, rather than sitting on the spf all day (like 'I do) :p

edit: also, his avatar is cool :cool: locke?, ff6? or am I mistaking myself?
Aww, shucks. And ya, the avatar is Locke. First really great game I played, FF6. Those were the days.



 

RobbyD

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: MF Oddballs - Issue #3 (includes previous issues)

Is there any chance I could request that you add / amend this post to include the "FishyZon" hybrid LF/CS and FA amazon?
 

Rhone

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: MF Oddballs - Issue #3 (includes previous issues)

I'm guessing not, since he doesn't really play D2 much anymore and he'd need the assistance of a moderator to modify the original post. And there's not much to say that he hasn't already said in his excellent guide (both in the guide itself and in his responses to the questions in thread).
 
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