Meteorb Advice

[aphelion]

Meteorb Advice

Hello, I am used to play a lot in 1.09 but now I am just casually playing with 2 other friends on SP LAN.

We started a party with me being a conc barb, and a poisonmancer and kicksin playing untwinked. We made it to level 80 in Hell act 1 and the going is getting tough. We're still moving on, but its taking a long time especially vs poison immunes and some of the really tough undead.

So I started a new meteorb following sasja's guide (but intending to go vita instead of block) because I wished to do more dmg, help MF NM meph and countess and generally have more fun. I figured a Meteorb would benefit more from the level 5 lower resis that the poison mancer has.

So far I am level 51 and its going great, baal runs gave great drops such as Nightsmoke, Spectral Shard and Telling of Beadsand I inherited a Vipermagi w/ 29 resis all from the barb. I just finished running normal Baal and I am now at max all resis in NM act 1. I have some questions as to where to take the character:

Right now it has

Maxed Frozen Orb
12 Meteor
7 cold mastery and 1 firemastery
1 in static and teleport and warmth
And all the prereqs.

She gets +1 fireskills from her orb and +1 all from vipermagi. Gear so far is

Rings, boot and orb of no consequence, just random MF ones
Steelclash
Vipermagi
Telling of Beads
Nightsmoke
Duskdeep helm

Stats are

60 str
base dex and energy
100 vitality
110 saved stat points

I've been reading around as for the stat distributions and nothing seems very concrete. I wonder if shard is worth it or should I go for a +skills orb / spirit crystal sword (I am not using RWM but I probably will). We don't have much equipment planned out, the only semi good things we got so far are Guardian Angel and Duriel's Shell.

Now for the Questions:

Should I pump dex to use the shard? or is the spirit crystal sword better?
What is a good number to settle on for strength w/o really knowing my future items?
What merc should I use? We already have a might merc and a holy freeze merc in our party. I am using a barb so far but thinking of a defiance merc.
Should I go for a spirit monarch shield? Is that worth the strength at all?

Lastly, how does a meteorb sorc play in NM? I heard lots of people say they use fireball much more. The Orb / Meteor combination seems off as both are timered. I'm guessing Orb / static is purely to deal with fire immunes, rest of the time I just fireball/Meteor?

Thanks a lot for the help!:alright:

 

[Nimbostratus]

Re: Meteorb Advice

Yet another victim of Meteorb's naming. Yes, fireball is the primary fire spell. Meteor is really only cast when you're facing a standing group of cold immunes with high HP.

I'd go with the dual spirits, so don't put anything in dex, and raise strength a good bit (and make sure you're using RWM so you can actually make spirit!). I have the full 156 strength on my single player meteorb (level 83 right now) and haven't had any trouble. I love having the flexibility from not having to get tons of +strength from gear.

Don't put any more in cold mastery, 7 should be enough. For mercenary, I'd go with Defiance to make your party even tougher.

Lastly, make sure that MF is the last priority when hunting for items; Survival -> killing speed -> MF.

 

[Taeraq]

Re: Meteorb Advice

Just a note, but I would follow Elio's guide a bit more than Sasja's in terms of skill point allocation (realistically, though, use both as well as your own judgement). Since both meteor and orb are timered, you end up wanting to do something during the downtime there, and fireball presents the perfect opportunity since you're maxing it anyways. So, once you have meteor and fireball maxed out, max out firebolt rather than FM. Fireball will be cast much more often than meteor will, so it makes more sense to boost that as much as you can and then work on FM.

In terms of mercenaries, since you already have a might and a holy freeze in your party, I would go for the defiance to boost everyone's survivability (and also toss an insight onto him if no one's gone that already).

The shard Vs. spirit sword really depends on what your FCR are. At minimum, you want 63% FCR so that you can teleport in relative safety, but more is always better. If using the shard would bring you past a break point, then I would probably use that (assuming you're already above 63%) - if not, then I would go for Spirit.

Since you're going for the max-vit route rather than the max-block route, a Spirit monarch is a good investment. I don't now if there's a better shield for it, personally, but I can't seem to recall one that is. In that vein, you would want to get enough strength with gear so that you can use it.

Edit: Oh, also, by and large Orb is enough to kill any fire immunes you run into, so don't worry too much about stating. Especially in Nightmare, Orb rips everything not immune to shreds, even with worse gear than you have. Personally, the combo that I tended to use most, until I got more FB syns maxed and better gear (now I FB exclusively if I can, with maybe a meteor tossed in at the start when everything is bunched up on my merc), is Orb on right-click and FB on left, with me shooting fireballs inbetween the orbs (assuming they're not resistant to either).

 

[aphelion]

Re: Meteorb Advice

Thanks for the responses! The reason why I followed Sasja's guide rather than Elio's is because Elio's seems heavily twinked, with lots of plus skills and gaining cold mastery from items. Is going the fireball route still viable if I don't expect to get say, +7 to skills?

Also about the spell usage and meteorb being improperly named, I don't understand why you would use fireball/orb instead of fireball/meteor on none immunes. Orb is easier to aim and chills, but shouldn't the sheer damage out put from synergized meteor overtake that in NM? If I am going to be going mostly fireball/orb, wouldn't it make sense to max fireball before meteor? (or use the skill calculator to always keep fireball maxed)

 

[melianor]

Re: Meteorb Advice

Thanks for the responses! The reason why I followed Sasja's guide rather than Elio's is because Elio's seems heavily twinked, with lots of plus skills and gaining cold mastery from items. Is going the fireball route still viable if I don't expect to get say, +7 to skills?

Also about the spell usage and meteorb being improperly named, I don't understand why you would use fireball/orb instead of fireball/meteor on none immunes. Orb is easier to aim and chills, but shouldn't the sheer damage out put from synergized meteor overtake that in NM? If I am going to be going mostly fireball/orb, wouldn't it make sense to max fireball before meteor? (or use the skill calculator to always keep fireball maxed)

Even with less +skills you will want Fireball. Meteor and Frozen Orb are both timered spells. You simply needed some hig damage spamming spell to have better killing speed.

No, it is important that you get enough skill points until you hit lvl30 so that you can invest points into multiple skins to power start your build. Just leave all at 1 until you hit lvl30 and then you start putting points equally into FB and Frozen Orb and Fire/Cold Mastery.

 

[aphelion]

Re: Meteorb Advice

I am at level 51, with already orb maxed and leaving cold mastery at 7. I'm talking about the period after that where I work solely on my fire skills. Should I allocate points such as to max fireball or meteor?

Also, I don't quite get the rationale for using fireball/orb instead of fireball/meteor in hell (assuming none immune). Won't meteor do a lot more damage by that point? With a holy freeze merc around even the chill from orb isn't that essential.

 

[Taeraq]

Re: Meteorb Advice

Honestly, I think that the main reason that I used that combo is that orb is a little more flexible in usage than meteor is, due to less need for timing, and also I'm much more used to it (I can't tell you how many orb sorcs I've had over the years), so I can usually sweet-spot it without even thinking about it.

 

[aphelion]

Re: Meteorb Advice

I was thinking a bit and realized that even if I get a worse possible Spirit Monarch, I would still have 105 FCR, just hitting the 8 frame breakpoint if I use Shard + Viper + Spirit. But doing that would require 26 more points in dex (or gain from weapons) and the loss of FHR, life, and skills. It would however prevent me from having any problems reaching the 63 FCR break point if for some reason I choose to use Rhyme instead. Otherwise I would have to hope for a high spirit crystal sword or have 10 FCR from else where (shouldn't be hard though)

In terms of playing technique, how exactly do you sweet spot orb, and how does it look like when you achieved it. I always try to get the orb to graze as close to the monster in question. I read about having the orb explode within the target, but doesn't that require you to gauge the distance exactly right? I don't think I've ever had the shard not "spill out" from the monster no matter how I've tried it.

 

[melianor]

Re: Meteorb Advice

The big ball in the middle of your Frozen Orb needs to land spot on the boss monster you are trying to kill. Then the damage of the big ball will inflate its full damage on that boss.

 

[aphelion]

Re: Meteorb Advice

Does the orb have to explode at exactly where the monster is, or does it just have to pass directly through it? Basically I'm asking do I have to gauge distance as well as angle.

And what does everyone think about going dual spirit? I'm considering saving the stat points and just going Rhythm + Shard.

 

[melianor]

Re: Meteorb Advice

You did look at all the stats that dual spirit offer and the +skills on top of that? :crazyeyes:

You have everything a sorceress needs there. FCR, FHR(!), Mana, Life, Resistances, .... Shard and Rhyme are just totally inferior. If you would compare other uniques, there might be options, but certainly not 2xSpirit against Shard/Rhyme. You can have Shard and Rhyme on switch for MF.

 

[aphelion]

Re: Meteorb Advice

Yes, spirit has some extremely nice stats that I didn't quite notice at first. That FHR is particularly useful.

What other uniques are out there? For the weapon, I'm guessing a good rare orb would offer more? Also, is Spirit Monarch realistically the best shield I can use w/ a vita set up? I'd hate to blow 80+str into it if its not permanent.

 

[aphelion]

Re: Meteorb Advice

I'm necroing this thread because of some more question that came to me while playing. I've decided to go the dual spirit route, so I have 156 hard points in str. I've been looking up sorc weapons though, and somethings like the wizspike and shard require quite a hefty dex requirement. Do you experts recommend saving points / putting any into dex if I do get those weapons? I play SP untwinked so I can't plan before hand.

My second question involves getting enough +skills to be viable in hell. I am doing very well in NM right now, but with my current set up, I can only guarantee getting around +6 to skills (vipermagi, disciple ammy, planning on 2x spirit). Lore could be a easy +1 on the helm, but anything else seems really hard to find for me. I've noticed that meteor and FB damage depend dramatically on + skills and I'm worried I will not be viable in Hell. Should I have gone a single tree route?

Lastly, how does the recommended FB / orb combo work? I noticed that orb has such a low casting delay I can barely get 1-2 FBs off before having to orb again. Is it truly better than FB / meteor at higher levels?

 

[Nimbostratus]

Re: Meteorb Advice

Dual spirits are very easy to obtain untwinked, so you can certainly plan around them. Leave dex at base.

You'll be fine with +6. For an easy +1 to fire skills, look for Magefist light gauntlets, which also give FCR.

Remember that nearly everything in Hell difficulty has at least one immunity (fire being the most common). You'll end up attacking mixed fire/cold immune groups fairly often, which is why the orb, 2 fireball, orb combo works so well. When fighting groups immune to neither element, I still find it better to use Orb, simply because of how much easier it is to land a hit with it. I mostly only use meteor as a scouting tool for around corners; it's unnecessary against most mobs since regular fireballs will usually kill them in the same time it takes the meteor to land anyway.

 

[Arek]

Re: Meteorb Advice

Yet another victim of Meteorb's naming. Yes, fireball is the primary fire spell. Meteor is really only cast when you're facing a standing group of cold immunes with high HP.

I'd go with the dual spirits, so don't put anything in dex, and raise strength a good bit (and make sure you're using RWM so you can actually make spirit!). I have the full 156 strength on my single player meteorb (level 83 right now) and haven't had any trouble. I love having the flexibility from not having to get tons of +strength from gear.

Don't put any more in cold mastery, 7 should be enough. For mercenary, I'd go with Defiance to make your party even tougher.

Lastly, make sure that MF is the last priority when hunting for items; Survival -> killing speed -> MF.

ot: you called aphelion a victim, yet you use the same term for your sorceress :dopey:

its called a meteorb due to various reasons. its popularized of sasja guide to mf untwinked sorceress. playing (and finishing the game) untwinked i used meteor all the time, fireball now and then to weak or hurted monsters, using frozen orb as a backup skill. especialy mentioning high resistant monsters and bosses, where using fireball is close to useless, only draining mana and doing minimal damage.

i dint play it with very good gear (tals set), but i can imagine meteor being usefull in half full to full games due to already mentioned high resistant monsters and bosses with lots of hitpoints (vampire lords being the best example).

to the topic and questions:
1. spirit sword is superior to shard
2. imho 100 str is comfortable, enabling most of the gear, with ~50 spare points to the future. also its a niece number :hammerhead:
3. defiance merc
4. yes
5. frozen orb is decent on nightmare, you already having leveled, use orb. level meteor and fireball to max, rest into firebolt and firemastery in 1:1 ratio if you are planning to have 10+ skills and youre set:balloons:

 

[Arek]

Re: Meteorb Advice

oh, another questions, so lemme :spy: (sry for double post i didn't catch them before)

1. leave the shard to be shard its a nice weapon when found untwinked, also its a decent twinking weapon, but other weapons beat it almost everywhere (wizzy everywhere, if not counting high dex req). wizzy, being a great utility weapon, is worth considering if you plan to reach 200 fcr breakpoint. otherwise i would choose a dual spirit, or occy or tals, being easy to reach 105 fcr breakpoint.

2. you may have some troubles with damage, especialy with frozen orb, but its nothing you should be worry about. if you do, make a single tree sorceress.

 

[MagpieLee]

Re: Meteorb Advice

I don't know how much I can add to this but I'll try.

I, like all of us. Came to the new ladder so you can consider me as "semi-twinkled" or freshie but I've now gotten into hell here I have:

Maxed res, over the 60FHR break point, over 105FCR and a "survivable" damage output.
My gear choice is skimmed as below and all easy to trade with PGs.

Viper - you already have this.
Peasant Crown / Shako - you already have at least one of these.
Tal Belt - I use this for the slight MF but the helpful 20 dex is useful for my weapon
Saracens Chance - yeah I know its not that great, but it provides the str/dex I need for...
Wizzy with Hel - as someone said, survivability is better then kill speed / MF. With huge res and FCR this is the weapon of choice (for now).
FCR ring - bleh bleh
Nagel - bleh
WT - low Mf
Chance Guards - MF and bleh.
Monarch Spirit - with at least 25FCR, +2 skills, FHR, Res and a bit of life and mana this IS what you need. But there's also nothing wrong with a PD'ed Lidless too.
Weapon Switch - random crappy shield with wand lvl 2 lower res charges (cus I'm like that).

Stats: 75 Base str, rest into vit.

Skills - I've put a few points into fireball first, then maxed out FO, then a couple of points into CM, then divded the rest into mete/fireball/firemastery. Now currently going back to CM to "top up"

*believe it or not, a maxed Fire ball with maxed Mete and FM it became my primary spell, though rushing someone on lower difficulties I use FO*

Ok now the important part I'd like to add. Playing semi-twinkled from the start takes dedication and charms...lotsa charms. For Wizzy which required 61 dex (this is one with Hel) and with 25 base dex, 20 from the belt (40), 12 from the amulet (52) the rest was formed from 2 x 5dex LCs.
Later, I gained a low torch (of a different class) for PGs, I dumped the dex charms for another char and started on my str to reach 156 - and let me tell you it wasn't easy.

At the end of the day you definately need to plan ahead. For me, I'll switch my wizzy to Occy which will mean I wouldn't need the Tals Belt. To maintain FCR rates, I'd use a magefist or a FCR circlet. I would switch my belt to a FCR + str belt if I'd made one. Or maybe I'd have a FCR+str ring/amulet and remove the str charms for res/MF.

You've put 156 *hard* puts into str. I wouldn't recommend this but at least this means you won't have to worry about any requirements for str charms. (note that torch and anni gives you at least 10 each which is 20 stat points and WTs give you 10 str points). It really does count to plan ahead with the help of charms.

As for your question on combo's, I have FB as my main offensive (my left jab), Meteor as my big punch (right hook) and my FO as my backup for Fire Imms (body punch - cus they're blocking) oh and my merc for fire and cold immunes (ear bites).

Viper (1), Spirit (2) and Peasants (1) is what I wear - thats a measly 4 skill levels but that doesn't mean I am troubled - just means I have to throw an extra couple of spells to kill and no one is timing you to kill ultra fast are they?

PS: Why did I not go with dual spirit? Because I'd have crappy res in Hell otherwise and I want to max out my res and also reach the 105 FCR BP without using FCR gloves, belt, rings, amu. Those are used for stats (monarch) and MF (afterall, Metorbs are mainly MFers afterall)

 

[aphelion]

Re: Meteorb Advice

I actually didn't put 156 hard points into strength yet, but at that point I assumed I was going to.

A slight bit of reluctance made me stick w/ 70 points in str and 86 saved stat points .

But reaching 156 through items from a base of 75 seems....impossible, especially playing untwinked and w/o the torch and anni in SP.

 

[Nimbostratus]

Re: Meteorb Advice

It's not that big a deal to put the full 156 base. You don't really get a whole lot of life for points in vitality anyway, and if you don't feel safe, you can always add a few +life charms. My meteorb has 156 base strength and no life charms, and I've been doing fine in Hell.

I probably wouldn't go more than 20 below the requirements for something unless I was absolutely sure I had endgame gear on-hand that would provide it. I hate having to use an item simply because of stat bonuses.

 

[petrov]

Re: Meteorb Advice

Hello all. Just back into D2 like so many others, haven't played for about 5 years.

Making a meteorb sorc (sorry!), completely untwinked. I'm so new again I don't recall what the various rune words do, how they're put together or what items rock (shako and Occy back in my day...?) - but I'll learn as I go along.

I'm wondering if I should follow Eilo's guide, as it's easy to read and understand, but seems to rely heavily on gear that I won't have in the forseeable future. So I then thought I might combine the two, and go the classic meteord build, but put more points in CM at the expense of FM and firebolt?

Does that make sense? Also, I was thinking full vit build, as it would be easy to follow (not have to worry about how much dex without knowing what items I'd get) - but would this gimp me if I don't have the items highlighted in Elio's guide?

Any help greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Petrov.