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Max Pierce with Strafer?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by winmar, Apr 20, 2008.

  1. winmar

    winmar IncGamers Member

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    Max Pierce with Strafer?

    I got another Strafer-question to discuss with you.

    I have maxed Strafe, Valk and Penetration. I have alot of spare skillpoints and no razortail, is it wise to max Pierce then?

    It doesnt feel like it is extemely useful with Strafe, but where else could i put my spare points? Im in HC, should i go for D/A/E instead?
     
  2. DeathMaster

    DeathMaster IncGamers Member

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    Re: Max Pierce with Strafer?

    How about put into a second attack to deal with PIs? Have you considered to get max LF? I love this skill as strafe backup, you don't need many points, and it is effective, powerful skill.

    The only downside is LF is very mana intensive. Even your merc use insight, you still need blue potions like there is no tomorrow.
     
  3. Swiller

    Swiller IncGamers Member

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    Re: Max Pierce with Strafer?

    I know you are hardcore, but are you playing twinked or untwinked?

    I think a decent percentage of pierce is practically a must-have for both bowazons and javazons. I always strive for 100%, but with no Razortail, that's pretty tough.

    In your situation, I think I would go for around slvl 12 after +skills. That will give you 75% pierce (which is good enough) but beyond that I think it would be a waste.

    In case you do get a Razortail, here's the breakdown (from Nidlav's LF/PJ Amazon guide:

    1 pt Pierce, +2 skills, Razortail = 75%
    5 pt Pierce, +2 skills, Razortail = 96%
    7 pt Pierce, +2 skills, Razortail = 100%
    10 pt Pierce, +2 skills = 75%
     
  4. winmar

    winmar IncGamers Member

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    Re: Max Pierce with Strafer?

    Thanks for the replies!

    I would like to keep her a pure strafer. PI's are not a problem since i use WWS with ctc Amp wich break immunes. That also answers the question that i am twinked.

    I will probably go for the 75% Pierce, i like Nosferatus Coil and String of Ears better then Razortail anyway.

    Any ideas what i should do with the rest of my spare points?

    How does Critical Strike and Deadly Strike work? WWS gives me 1% Deadly Strike per level. Can Crit + Deadly trigger stack, or is it the same?

    How about points in D/A/E? I've heard they can do more harm then good because of some odd bug.

    One more question, i've heard that FHR is important on a strafer, how much should i aim for?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  5. Jingizu

    Jingizu Banned

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    Re: Max Pierce with Strafer?

    I will surely put a lot of points into D/A/E, they are extremely usefull. The bug has nothing to do with strafe, but with javelin skills, so don't be afraid.

    As for FHR, strafeazon in HC should play defensively, that means, that you have to avoid every monster you see. I would reccomend heavily usage of decoy for scouting at the edges of your screen and strafing offscreen too. The problem with strafe is not with fhr, but with strafe lock. I suggest reading some guide, you will get complete information :smiley:
     
  6. Antonio

    Antonio IncGamers Member

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    Re: Max Pierce with Strafer?

    Critical Strike and Deadly Strike don't stack, but are checked separately. If you have 50% DS and 50% CS you have a 75% chance to do double damage.


     
  7. DeathMaster

    DeathMaster IncGamers Member

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    Re: Max Pierce with Strafer?

    Played (and guardianed) a WWS strafer, the CtC sometimes just doesn't happen when you need it. Unbreakable PIs will be a little problem. Without a backup attack, your best bet is using your "normal attack". The MA will kill, but not fast. If you meet PIMI, that can be problem. I'd like to not count on CtC to deal with PI.

    A/D/E one point is good enough. WWS + single point CS will be good enough to ensure always every shot will do double damage at high level.

    I'd recommend to reach 32% FHR (if the table is correct). It is not hard.
     
  8. Ugla

    Ugla IncGamers Member

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    Re: Max Pierce with Strafer?

    Are you sure of this? I always thought the bug affects all amazon skills including normal attack :undecided: I consider D/A/E useful nonetheless. I tried to play a Strafer without these skills and didn't like it much.

    @winmar: since you already have one pt in D/A/E, you can consider raising them a bit (~4 hard points). I would not go overboard, because there are other options to consider.

    As a WWS user, you may find little use for Critical Strike or Magic Arrow, but they are great once you opt for different weapon. That's basically the reason why I never liked WWS - with a bunch of "free" skill-points, you can easily make up for its mods, and once you do, all that's left is a slow bow with crappy damage and low chance to cast amp :unimpressed:

    MS is also an option. It beats Strafe against large packs and doesn't have the dangerous lock.



     
  9. muzzz

    muzzz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Max Pierce with Strafer?

    I haven't heard of any bugs with D/A/E, although I'm not really an amazon expert. One problem I am familiar with is the evade-lock. Quoting NF from the top of my head: "Don't blame me if you can't even move because of a thousand flayer darts locking you in evade."

    AFAIK, strafe is partially interruptible, which would mean it's still subject to evade-lock.
     
  10. Ugla

    Ugla IncGamers Member

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    Re: Max Pierce with Strafer?

    The so called D/A/E bug causes the amazon to miss whenever Dodge or Avoid are triggered during her attack animation. Evade has in fact nothing to do with it, because you can't attack while moving in the first place.

    Cycle based attacks get completely ruined, but imo each and every amazon attack skill is affected to a certain extent.
     
  11. Flayed One

    Flayed One IncGamers Member

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    Re: Max Pierce with Strafer?

    simply put - all uninterruptable attacks(yep. zeal included) get interrupted server side by D/A/E. Since it's server side you won't see the effect on the screen, unless something triggers another animation. For example:

    You're in the middle of a 10 arrow strafe. You have no points in D/A/E, 3 frame attack. Imagine that you're in the middle of a baalrun. The listers pack has a life tap cast upon them. Since strafe is uninterruptable you neither get knocked back nor stunned by their attacks. If your damage and life pool is decent you can tank them without a problem(tested in nightmare only although with crappy euipment:p probably an exaggerated example, but you get the point ;))

    Image the same situation with points in D/A/E. On your 4th arrow you get attacked by one of the listers minions. You dodge the attack, so don't get hit, but you won't see the 'dodge' animation because client side doesn't know about strafe being interrupted. It still will show your character shooting the remaining arrows(and won't accept new orders until the current 'strafe' will be finished), but on the server side your character does nothing(the arrows you will see on the screen do not really exist). Since you're not really strafing anymore server will process any new animation triggered to the client, so if for example you dodge for the second time during this strafe the client will stop displaying strafe animation and replace it with a dodge animation/hit recovery/whatever.

    *Disclaimer: That's why Frostburn was under impression that Hit Recovery and Blocking interrupt fend. They don't, but if you have points in D/A/E, get hit during fend cycle, dodge the attack(1st dodge will be hidden, fend will stop on the server side), get hit again and block the attack(at this moment for the server amazon just stands still, so there is no reason not to start a blocking animation. The client shows a fake/fend cycle though ) it will look as if fend was being interrupted by blocking.

    I hope the descriptions were clear enough. Conclusion:
    D/A/E bug only affects uninterruptable attacks namely: Jab, Strafe,Fend, Zeal
    D/A/E will interrupt other attacks just like blocking does.
     
  12. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    Re: Max Pierce with Strafer?

    I'd never go with D/A/E on a strafer. It just sucks. You're much better off just braving the odd attack that hits you.

    On the other hand, you don't desperately need max pierce. 60%ish is just fine, really. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in game between 60% and 100% pierce. Yes, you can easily tell on paper, but the effect isn't *that* noticable. Especially when half the time stuff isn't coming at you in single file so you'd get full use of pierce.

    What I'd do is get an elemental attack to deal with PIs. Obviously LF leaps to mind... Personally I didnt find WWS's amp was enough to deal with PIs. 2% is just lousy, really. Most of the time it happened when I didnt need it anymore.

    If you use a WWS you do not need critical strike at all. I'd still dump a few points in it just in case you get a better bow sometime. (assuming you want to continue play after guardian, MFing and stuff)

    Gearwise I really like slow target by X% for strafers. That helps a lot more than D/A/E ever could. For example, with cleglaw's and blackhorn's face you can slow stuff by 45% which is pretty damn sweet. The items itself might seem utterly unimpressive sometimes, but slowing targets by 50%ish or not at all can make a world of difference in HC.
     

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