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Max Block Wind Druid?

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Trionth, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. Trionth

    Trionth Diabloii.Net Member

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    Max Block Wind Druid?

    I've got a Wind Druid in progress for PvP.

    I'm trying to decide if I should go for max block with a Spirit Monarch (This over stormshield because of 35% FCR)

    That requires quite a few points into Dexterity, thus lowering my life. If I don't go for Max block I can leave my Str and Dex where they are and still equip everything, allowing for everything into Vitality.

    Max block worries me because of BvC. I've heard that without max block, I really don't stand a chance.

    Let me know what you think, Thanks!
     
  2. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    Why not just have a block set up in the stash? That same set up can net you DR, which you'd have to find elsewhere on a Spirit oriented set up.
     
  3. Trionth

    Trionth Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    Hmm... So, set up a caster vs caster, and a caster vs melee sort've?

    Here what I have for gear now:

    Helm: Rare Druid Helm (+2 Druid skills, +3 Tornado, odd resists and life socketed with a pruby, but should I Cham it, or just keep a Ravenfrost in stash?)
    Armor: Enigma
    Shield: Spirit
    Gloves: Magefist
    Rings: 10% FCR Bitter Turn rare, SoJ or Ravenfrost
    Amulet: Mara's
    Belt: Arachnid Mesh
    Boots: Ethereal Sandstorm Treks
    Weapon: HoTo
    Weapon switch: CtA

    Full inventory of Elemental Skillers, 20/20 Torch and a 19/20 anni, ten 20 life scs (some with resists) I keep some +% lightning resist small charms in stash for use against those pesky Lightning sorcs, amazons and sins. (dueled a FOH/smite Pally yesterday... Thats really annoying because you can't avoid it and they have conviction :\)

    Hopefully this nets me 125% fcr (fastest possible)

    For a vs melee what about something like this:

    Helm: Um'd Shako (or BerBer Coa?)
    Armor: Enigma (maybe Chains of Honor? I'll probably want to keep the teleport though)
    Shield: Um'd Stormshield
    Gloves: Magefist
    Rings: 2x SoJ (Or Dwarf or Wisp or revenfrost, etc...)
    Amulet: Mara's
    Belt: Arachnid Mesh (Verdungos or Tgods maybe?)
    Boots: Ethereal Sandstorm Treks
    Weapon: HoTo
    Weapon switch: CtA

    With Spirit I would need like 260-ish Dexterity to achieve max block. With Stormshield I need 200 (only 160 hard points)

    With Stormshiled, is the 25% increase chance to block factored in to the 67% listed? (Information on the arreat summit, hopefully a link there is okay) If its not factored in, then I only need 154 dexterity (only 114 hard points)

    EDIT: I think I need a 10%+ FCR ring to hit 125% FCR.

    Any PvP Tips (I've read the Wind Druid PvP Guide) When I duel with my Hammerdin its always lighning users and smiters that I can't deal with. My Hammerdin is no way equipped for Duels (no DR gear, no Pcombs or lifers) but I still manage to do okay with everyone except for them (Trapsins, Amazons, Light Sorcs, Smiters/FOH)

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  4. arbing

    arbing Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    Bad idea to max block with spirit. You gotta invest too much dex to get max block on a spirit (which yields a very low life Windy), plus it doesn't offer any dr at all.

    And your vs melee setup is not very good either (btw you NEED teleport from Enigma, that's why this build isn't really good until patch 1.10)
    1) you should have more fcr. Use Hoto= 40, crafted ammy= 20, Trang/ Magefist= 20, Spider= 20 = 100% fcr= 11 frame casting rate
    2) why would you need so much dr%? it caps at 50. Socket Ber in Stormshield (43%) + Enigma (8%)
     
  5. Trionth

    Trionth Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    With my set-up now I have 125% fcr

    Hoto = 40%
    Magefist = 20%
    Arachs = 20%
    Bitter Turn ring = 10%
    'Spirit' = 35%

    I just looked up the tables, and to get a 10frame cast I need 163% :\ Which does not seem possible.

    When I use stormshield I'll have to equip another 10 fcr ring to hit 11 frame casting.

    I didn't know DR was capped at 50%. I'll just Ber the Stormshield and be good to go.

    Is there a way you can see to hit 10 frame casting? Even with another 10 FCR ring and a 20 FCR Amulet, I'm 8 FCR short of the 163%. Can I get FCR from a Druid Helm?

    EDIT: I'm curious as to how important faster hit recovery is.


     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  6. Uncle_Mike

    Uncle_Mike D2 PvP Moderator

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    Unless you want to use a 20 fcr circ your only option, provided that you have an amulet with at least 18% fcr is to use wizzard spike/suicide branch.

    There's your missing fcr.

    There are no pelts with fcr - you could use a regular circ with 2 druid skills 20 fcr and adds. Most, i believe, go for wizzy/branch setup while still wearing a 5 nado pelt.

    Perhaps things have changed since i've last played a windy though so wait for more opinions ;)



     
  7. angryteen

    angryteen Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    Ive played a windy for a long time. Started out as mb and eventually switched to full vita. If u are mb u MUST hit 99fcr/99fhr, if full vita then u MUST hit 163fcr/99fhr. I cant emphasize this enough. And also, do not try to hit maxblock with spirit shield. Its not doable without taking a massive cut in your life.

    My old max block setup: 99/99 and 50dr

    Helm: 5nado
    Ammy: 2 druid/18fcr
    Rings: Ravens+10fcr ring
    Armor: Enigma
    Weapon: Spirit 35fcr
    Shield: Stormshield Bered
    Belt: Arachs
    Gloves: Trangs
    Boots: Treks

    2x ele/fhr GCs, lifers

    Around 5.5k life after BO(if i remember correctly)

    Heres the setup for 163/99. which im using currently using

    Helm: 5nado/Berber-ed Crown of Ages in stash for 39dr
    Ammy: 2druid/18 fcr
    Weapon: Suicide branch 20/15-ed
    Shield: Spirit 35fcr
    Armor: Enigma
    Rings: 2x 10fcr rings
    Belt :Arachs
    Gloves: Trangs
    Boots: Treks

    9xLifers

    7k+ life after BO

    The biggest reason why you will go MB on a druid is for BvCs. However, when a barb wws u while ur full minion stack is up the wolves will take the hitchecks for you. You cannot tank a good barb no matter you are MB or non MB. Hence the way to duel BvCs( or any other melee class) is to play defensive. Let them do the chasing while you tele and spam nadoes. You need to keep tele-ing to refresh your minion stack. And in the event where he catches you, tele away and resummon your minions. Do not stay at one spot and let your minions scatter.

    With a mb setup u will need still to have a 163/99 setup for casters. However you will have alot less life vs casters.

    If you are new to windies(and can get a full set of ele lifers), my advice is to go maxblock first, as it will make duels vs physical chars much more forgiving. However as you get better, switch to 163fcr and full vita with COA in stash for dr. If you cannot get full lifers, i suggest to go full vita, as you will have very low life due to heavy dex investment.

    Personally i dont like mb now as much as i used to on druid. Max fcr in my opinion, is still the most important element on casters. You cannot maintain max fcr on a druid with maxblock unlike necros. And with COA you can get respectable dr vs physicals anyway. With higher fcr, its also easier to maintain minions, which help you block ww etc, and also helps you pin stomped targets in fhr lock easier. Returns from vita/boable life investments is also hugely magnified due to oak sage. Hence i feel that in the long run a full vita windy is much more worth it than a maxblock windy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2010
  8. Trionth

    Trionth Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    I have a full inventory of elemental Charms, but only a few have life on them. I figured that if I build up for max block with a ber'd stormshield, I will only need ~90 hard points into Dexterity.

    Then I can easily switch between the two set-ups (FCR for vs Casters, and MB for vs BvC or other of the type) Using a Wizardspike on the caster set-up (for the extra +75 all resist) Granted, I'll be losing the +3 from hoto, and even the +1 from Suicide, but I think the resists will be more beneficial vs casters. I'll try to get Elemental lifers to replace what I have now, but it will take some time and the elementals should get me by okay.

    Is it difficult to find a +2 druid, 18+ FCR ammy? I just need that and the 10 FCR ring. Until then I'll be using Max block set-up I guess, or just PvM to find said ring/amulet.

    What do you summon? A Grizzly, 3 dire wolves, or 5 spirit wolves? Do you bother with Ravens?
     
  9. arbing

    arbing Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    pvp most of the time you will use 5 wolves
     
  10. Trionth

    Trionth Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    Should I even bother putting points up to Bear?

    What about werewolf and werebear?
     
  11. angryteen

    angryteen Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    I remember on my mb windy my total dex was 200+ for maxblock. Im not so sure about the dex investment.

    Yes definitely go 163fcr vs casters. switch to spirit shield, wizzy for elemental/suicide for necs, and a 20fcr circlet on the mb setup to hit 163. The damage loss from hoto is negligible as the point is to lock them down in fhr with your 163fcr nadoes. Keep cyclone armor up at all times vs casters.

    As for the ammy. Its has to be crafted to have 18 fcr. Yes its not easy to find and I had to pay a big amount for it on another forum. Another alternative is to use a 2 druid/10 fcr ammy. But you will have to use 2x 10 fcr rings on the MB setup instead of a raven.

    For summons. Only oak sage, spirit wolves and grizzly truly matter. Dire wolves are totally useless. Ravens are mainly for the distraction and should be at the bottom of your priority when resummoning, while oak sage is at the top. It can however, put zons into dodgelock.

    For melee(bvc, smiter, chargers, fury druids) use 5 x wolves. It provides great defense as it helps u block hits. It makes you very hard to namelock for smiters, chargers etc as they have to sift through your pile of minions to namelock you.

    For sorcs and bowazons, use Grizzly. They can clear your wolves with a single fireball or multishot, while the grizzly can often take 2-3 of those.

    For necros it depends, if they do not teeth, use wolves. If they like to teeth, use grizzly. I generally use grizzly and play very offensively vs necros. The grizzly knocks them back and puts them into fhr when u stomp them, denying them a getaway.

    I also put a point into vine. While it does nothing in terms of defense or offense, it annoys the hell out of some people.

    Put one point into summons. All other remaining points goes to oak sage.
     
  12. Trionth

    Trionth Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    Apparently its going to be quite difficult to get a +2 Druid 18+ FCR ammy. Whats more important, the +2 skills there, or the FCR? I could probably get a generic 20 FCR amulet for a decent price. Maybe even get some resists on it.

    So I should be all geared soon-ish. I wish there was a break-point between 99 and 163 because that is a huge jump. For the max block (99/99) I should be okay with using Maras instead of the generic FCR amulet, and I might Um or Cham the rare pelt (depending upon if it will lose its color once I take out the ruby :\)

    Hopefully I can get it geared well enough to duel effectively, if not... then I have yet another PvM build. lol

    -------------------

    So heres the 163% FCR gear:

    Helm: Rare +5 Nado pelt (possibly Cham this)
    Armor: Enigma
    Shield: Spirit -- 35% 55%
    Gloves: Magefist -- 20%
    Rings: 10% FCR Resist Rings -- 20%
    Amulet: 18 FCR Amulet (upgrade to +2 druid, 20 FCR and resists later) -- 18%
    Belt: Arachnid Mesh -- 20%
    Boots: Sandstorm Treks 20%
    Weapon: Wizard Spike -- 50% (What should I add here?)
    Weapon switch: CtA

    Giving me 163% FCR 75% FHR (Hopefully I can reach 99% with Charms)

    And the Max block

    Helm: Jalala's Mane (Shael'd) 50%
    Armor: Enigma
    Shield: Stormshield (Ber'd)
    Gloves: Magefist -- 20%
    Rings: 10% FCR Resist Ring, Ravenfrost (Dex, CBF)
    Amulet: 18% FCR Amulet -- 18%
    Belt: Arachnid Mesh -- 20%
    Boots: Sandstorm Treks 20%
    Weapon: HoTo -- 40%
    Weapon switch: CtA

    This should gives me 100% FCR, 70% FHR, and max block.

    I'm going to need to get 25 FHR for the caster setup and 30 FHR for the Max block setup. Hopefully a few of my Skillers have FHR on them. Are 5% FHR small charms hard to obtain?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  13. angryteen

    angryteen Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    I think both setup works. Some stuff that i could improve on:

    Use trangs instead of magefists for gloves. The 30cold resists is far more valuable than the mana regen. Wind druids are not heavy mana guzzlers. You can always use mana pots.

    Caster setup:

    1) On your caster setup u could shael the 5nado to get extra 20fhr. Then u will need only a small charm to cover up for the lost 5%. Dont cham it. You absolutely dont need CBF on a windy.

    2) I recommend to have a 20/15-ed suicide branch in stash. You generally do not have problems with elemental damage because of cyclone armor. Only use wizzy if you are having trouble with good sorcs or trapsins. In that case get a 15 resists jewel(preferably with a 7fhr mod as well so that u have 102fhr without charms) for your wizzy.

    MB setup

    1)Try and get str/dex instead of resists on your 10fcr ring to lessen str/dex investment.

    2) Any reason not to use 5nado+35 fcr spirit sword over jalals+hoto? Spirit sword gives 55fhr, and 5nado+spirit has higher damage than jalals+hoto. If you shaeled your 5nado, u have 95fhr without charms and u too only need to cover up 5% to reach 99 fhr.

    You mentioned that you lack elemental/vita GCs on an earlier post. I strongly recommend that you to eventually fill your inventory with +35 lifer gcs. Especially so for you because you are going maxblock and a lack of those charms will result in a very low life. Also, get 5resists/18+lifer small charms to fill up the remaining slots(those have fallen in price dramatically of late) . In that case you should never have to touch the wizzy.

    Well in pub games i usually have a pair of hotspurs. Its considered BM by most but it makes u mostly invincible vs sorcs :p(fireball sorcs are usually your greatest threat among sorcs)

    And 5fhr scs are everywhere and dirt cheap. If you wanna get 5resists/fhr scs then its gonna cost u alot more
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2010
  14. Trionth

    Trionth Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    Was beating up on pubbies yesterday :grin:

    My Druid is level 81 using the gear I listed above.

    The hardest ones so far are amazons. The zons that use melee aren't so bad as I can play defensive and just spam until I FHR lock them. They also hit my bear a few times before they get to me and by then they're usually dead.

    Bowzons have been giving me fits. I've tried both defensive, and offensive strategies. If I stack wolves and ravens I last a bit longer. They use (milti, strafe?) to wipe out my summons, and guided arrow to take me out. When I stomp them, Idk what happens... I just die.

    I pissed off multiple BvC's with max block and found I don't really need it vs them (unless they were just bad) They would teleport close to me (not on top of) which allowed me to spam as they WW.

    Another problematic character is the WW sin... I dueled 3 different players using them, and absolutely could not take any of them. I tried bear to take the hits, wolves (because bear didn't work) Mind blast is a pain. Any suggestions here?

    My favorite duels are against smiters. They waste nearly everyone in pubbies because once they start hitting, there's really nothing you can do :\ Maybe the ones I dueled had bad FHR, but its funny to watch them get locked into the same situation duel after duel. It the same with other wind druids. I've yet to meet one with 163% FCR and 2 of the 4 rage quitted lol.

    PvM is a breeze. I never knew the Bear could tank so well. I did Hell CS just to test him (in baal game so I had ~6 players) Having the slow effect from my merc (holy freeze) and unlimited nados from Insight made it as easy as playing it with my hammerdin (and more fun)

    By far one of my faorite builds yet. Thanks for all the help :)
     
  15. minuses

    minuses Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    Put a rare jewel with 9 dex and other mods in your ss.


     
  16. angryteen

    angryteen Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    On bowazons:

    To be frank bowazons are among the easiest matchups on a windy. Play aggressively but be smart about it. The worst mistake you can make vs a bowazon is to give them distance to spam arrows. Circle around them and gain distance to stomp them ASAP. Theres nothing she can do to you when you are in her face spamming nados. From then on its little more than a chainlocking practice. Do not try to teleport through the multishot fields. The problem with MB on a windy vs a bowazon is that your FBR is much worse than your FHR. So attempting to tele through an arrow field might put you in FBR lock and kill you. Keep the bear up at all times. Wolves dont work as one multi shot will clear them.

    1)Circle around the zon, avoiding multishot spam.
    2)Find an opening ASAP and stomp her fast. If you cannot find an opening fast and are getting overwhelmed by GAs etc, pull back, shake off the GAs and try again.
    3)Stomp. If she stands still she dies. If she walks you chainlock her.
    4)Dead bowazon

    On sins:

    Sins, trapsin or WWsin, are the bane of your existence as a windy. Is like hammerdin to smiters, BvCs to WWsins and hotspurs to fire sorcs. I personally use a 163fcr/174fhr setup vs sins. Nonetheless very difficult, even if they are only mediocre.

    I play VERY defensively vs them. I usually hover at the edge of their trap fields and spam nadoes at them. If you get mindblasted in range of traps, immediately walk out with WSG and tele away. Wait for mindblast to wear off, then resume the routine. Keep up bear and cyc armor at all times.

    Vs bad trapsins who like to camp in trap fields, its a battle of patience. Wait for them to lose patience and do something stupid like rushing you without first trapping and mbing. I also sometimes drop a bear into their trapfield to waste their traps. Bad sins will not recast them immediately, then its your cue to stomp her. As long as u can catch her without full 5 traps and mb, you can stomp her and nado. .

    WW sins imo are even harder. Even if you can catch her without traps and mb they can WW to avoid your nadoes. But her traps serve to permastun you instead of damaging you and hence do alot less damage. You might get lucky if she gets engrossed in trying to WW you rather than keeping up mb and traps. In that case nado her as if shes a barb.

    The key tactic is to be VERY defensive when playing vs a sin, bide your time for mistakes to happen and pounce on her for it. Do not rush in to stomp her, you will most certainly die for it. Ignore the sins whining/crying that you are a coward(pub sins love to whine in general when you dont rush into their trap fields).

    But ultimately, my tactics vs sins rely on them making mistakes rather than skill. If you are facing a good sin who actively chases you and preempts your positions with traps etc. Theres really very little you can do, the design of sins simply counters you in every way. No shame losing to a good sin on a windy imo. I usually just unhostile them after a few duels, or simply switch to my necro :D
     
  17. Trionth

    Trionth Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    Aggresive Vs Bowzons, Defensive and wait for a mistake vs Trap/ww sins. What do you use to hit 174 FHR? Do you keep charms with it in your stash? Should I take the Cham out of my pelt and Shael it instead (it will free up 4 small charm spaces that I can put lifers in)

    I think once I get to 90 I'll respec and scrap the max block set-up. Just use 163/174 all the time vs everyone. It will leave me vulnerable vs BvC and other builds like that, but it doesn't seem to matter. If they're good they kill me regardless, and if they're bad I can kill them without being touched. Any reason to keep max block?
     
  18. angryteen

    angryteen Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    Well i do not advise using 174fhr vs all. It is completely unnecessary for anyone other than sins. At 174 fhr u have less damage and life compared to 163/99. And also u cannot afford any DR on your build, which is vital vs barbs, bowazons, smiters, or dvd.

    Well there is no reason to keep maxblock for a druid other than barbs to be perfectly frank. The massive life and fcr cut does not justify the easier time vs barbs imo. And for barbs, you can learn to duel them without block BUT with DR. If you are using 163/99 be certain to have a setup that can afford respectable DR along with it. My 163/99 39DR setup is actually my vs all pub game setup. I switch in to 5nado helm only when there are no physical dmg chars in the game.

    Anyway this is my 163/174 setup for sins:

    Helm: +2 druid/20fcr Shaeled
    Ammy: 2druid/18fcr
    Rings: 2x 10fcr rings
    Armor: Enigma
    Weapon: 35 spirit
    Shield: 35 spirit
    Belt: arachs
    Gloves: Trangs
    Boots: Treks
    Inv: 2x Ele/12fhr GCs, Ele/ lifers and shimmering vita scs

    This will net u 163fcr/174fhr
     
  19. Trionth

    Trionth Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    Hmm...

    Where do you get you DR with your normal set-up. On my Max block I have Ber'd Stormshield, that plus enigma gets me max DR. Should I just switch out my Cham'd 5nado for a Ber'd Jalal's? That would give me more resists (30% more) and another 8% DR, putting me at 16 :\

    To keep 163% FCR I can't see where else to find some DR.
     
  20. angryteen

    angryteen Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Max Block Wind Druid?

    Crown of Ages with 15dr and 2bers. 31 DR. Gives u 39DR including the 8 from enigma.

    No socketing a helm with ber to get some dr is useless. DR only matters when its of respectable amount.
     

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