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Mavinas...what to do with it?

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by tl998, Feb 13, 2004.

  1. tl998

    tl998 Banned

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    Mavinas...what to do with it?

    I have FINALLY accumulated all of Mavina's set. It cost me about 3 Fals to get the diadem, but I did it. Anyhoo, I think I'm going to basically follow Freya's FA guide, except I still haven't decided to go with Multi or Strafe yet.

    The main questions I have are:
    1) What equipment should I look for to go with Mavina set? (I'm not rich, mavina set is the best thing I have. I don't even have skiller GCs for zon except for one or two passive ones)

    2) Would I need to put shaels in a lot of my equipment? (Only have one shael right now darn it)

    3) Will cold facets help?

    4) Will I need to dump a lot of points into Pierce because I can't use razortail?

    5) Will resists/speed/leech be a problem with this set? I have an Eye of Etlich should I switch it out for something with mroe leech? (assuming I find some)

    That's all the questions I can think of at this time. I'd also like ot take this opportunity to thank Freya for such a cool guide :worship: I'm sure I'll be able to do well with it with Mavina set if he can do it with (in his own words) 'substandard' equipment.
     
  2. Ravenforce3

    Ravenforce3 IncGamers Member

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    I can't answer most of your questions, but I must say that, if you are going for a FA zon, DEFINATELY get Eye of Etlich. It can add up to another 10 seconds of freeze time to your arrows.
     
  3. tl998

    tl998 Banned

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    Freya, any thoughts?

    P.S How do I tell if my Eye has 10 seconds or not?
     
  4. Ravenforce3

    Ravenforce3 IncGamers Member

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    If you're on realm, there's no way other than to go into a normal game, strip off all your cold damage items other than your Eye and fire an arrow at something. Count the seconds it's chilled. This is the cold length on your Eye.
     
  5. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    Just a little FYI.. you can strafe your way through Hell with M'avinas if you were so inclined. With the huge bonus to cold damage, it's probably not the most efficient route, but my wife did it for a while and it worked.

    You can even get the bow to 9/2 if you shael it and fervor jewel the helm and armor. I think.
     
  6. redalert

    redalert IncGamers Member

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    Keep in mind that cold duration in nightmare is cut to 1/2, and in hell it's cut to 1/4.

    Make a norm game, and take off all cold gear besides Eye of Etlich.

    Hit a monster once and count. Do this a few times and you should be able to estimate how long your duration is. It's supposed to vary between 2-10 seconds, and i'm not sure if there is a set number for each ammy, or if its random each time u hit the monster. I'm guessing it's random. Don't forget that this cold duration adds onto your cold arrow/freezing arrow attacks. too bad hell cuts the duration down so severely =(.

    You should get 3 second duration in hell if your etlich gives a successful 10 second duration.
     
  7. tl998

    tl998 Banned

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    So i you don't think it's efficient to strafe my way thru hell, then what do you suggest?
     
  8. Freyas

    Freyas IncGamers Member

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    1)M'avina's set will give you a very nice bonus to cold length- with an eye of etlich on, you should be good in that department(especially if it's a good duration one). For the eye of etlich, there's no way to see the duration on it, but if you use a normal bow, and freeze things in normal difficulty, and count how many seconds it is until they come unfrozen, subtract 2 seconds from that(FA's inherent time), and that should give you a decent idea of your freeze length. You might want to try it on a couple different types of monster in order to get around cold resistance. The freeze duration on it is set when it drops, so you'll always get the same effect from it, but it can be anywhere between 2 and 10 seconds. For other equipment, I recommend getting at least one more item for mana leech- a good cheap option here is a manald heal. A ravenfrost would be nice, but if you don't have one, just use whatever good jewelry you have available. If you can get your hands on one, an Atma's amulet will help you out a lot as well when strafing, and even some with FA, with the double damage, which will help both your killing speed with strafe, and your life/mana leech.

    2) The only piece of equipment that you would want to shael is your bow- shaels don't give IAS in other equipment. If I remember correctly, M'avina's set comes with 70 IAS. The breakpoints for M'avina's Caster are 89 for 9/3, and 120 for 9/2. With a shael in the bow, you'll reach a 9/3 attack speed, and you can hit 9/2 if you socket both the helm and armor with 15ias jewels as well as shael the bow.

    3) Cold facets will significantly increase your damage. However, you don't really need them- M'avina's already gives you a very nice boost to your FA damage- I would recommend socketing for IAS over cold facets. Your FA should do enough damage to be quite effective in hell, and where you'll probably need the most help would be against cold immunes, where the cold facets won't really help.

    4)I would definately recommend getting a high level pierce skill. I would recommend getting up to at least 80%, which you will hit with a level 15 pierce. You get high diminishing returns after that point, but every percent can help out a lot. Since you will generally do several thousand extra damage on a shot by piercing an extra time, it's definately worth the skill points.

    5)M'avina's set gives 100% resist all, so you can generally get high resistances just through charms, with maybe some included on your other free slots. Getting some boots with resistance can help out, and some jewelry, like ravenfrost, will help you out versus elemental damage as well. You will probably want some more leech, as M'avina's only comes with the mana leech on the belt(that I can remember, at least). Getting a manald or rare ring for mana leech would help out a lot with FA. The eye of etlich has life leech on it, so that will help you out there too.

    Good luck with the amazon- FA is easily one of the best skills in the game, especially since it combines both safety and damage. So long as you don't rush forward blindly and then try to fight yourself out of the middle of a crowd, you should have a pretty easy time with this character. You might not be the fastest killer in 8 player baal runs, but you should be the safest, and still be more effective at killing than most of the other non-hammerdin/sorceress characters.
     
  9. tl998

    tl998 Banned

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    I think I might wear either an Aldur's boots or Nat's boots for the resists. I do have an extra Raven (just found one yay even tho the AR on it is low) and I alsi have some extra manalds. even with +100 in hell I'll only have 20 resist all (after I do the 2 anya quests in previous difficulties). Even A nat's boots won't boost my resists up enough. I can mule over an anni charm for 19 resist all...but Ill also need lots of other resist charms to help.

    What if I use MS instead of Strafe? any equipment/socketing differences?
     
  10. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    I think it's efficient and can attest to the fact that it works. It's just that there's better gear to do it with than the M'avina set, and that the M'avina set is more aimed at a different kind of zon.

    You can still do it though, and succeed. Like I said, my wife managed it, but she didn't go for 9/2 strafe - she AMN'd the bow for leech, UM'ed the helm and armor for resists (groan) and used Atma's Scarab to make up in damage cause she was slightly slower in speed (10/3 strafe iirc).
     
  11. tl998

    tl998 Banned

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    Why groan abourt the ums? Anyways, what kind of zon IS mavinas geared towards then?

    on a side note, my char has progressed to act 3 norm and is currently level 20. I gave her artic set to start out with and vidala set replaced it at level 14. Vidala's is great as a complete set cuz it gives freeze, pierce, and other stuff. Perfect for frostmaiden. So far I'm kicking butt for the most part, but my level 1 ice arrow just isn't killing as quickly as I'd like in multiplayer games.

    I currently have 11 unspent skill points. should I just dump them in cold arrow right now, or should I save the points and max cold arrow after I max FA? Also, do you think Vidala's can last me until level 30?

    And can someone tell me if MS is a good option instead of Strafe?
     
  12. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    M'avinas is geared towards a frostmaiden IMO :)

    I happen to believe that a strafeazon doesn't need any elemental backup. There are so few Physical Immunes in the game now, even in Hell, and almost all of them can be solved with judicious use of Atma's Scarab or a merc wielding Reaper's Toll.

    My wife's WF-zon (that's what she progressed to after M'avinas) doesn't wear Atmas and doesn't have anything more than prerequisite points in elemental skills and yet has no problems against PI's either. Her merc has Reaper's Toll.

    But now i'm arguing the reverse argument. You want to make a Frostmaiden. I say GO FOR IT. You have the perfect set for it right there.

    I would argue against Multishot in 1.10, if and only if you have the spare points to pump Strafe. It's good to have a point in, maybe a few even, but really.. you wont be facing the huge packs you did in 1.09 (eg cow level). Pumping multishot gives you a whole lot of extra arrows that, most of the time, go to waste. But at the same time, Strafe does not shine unless you have the skill points available to really capitalize on it's enhanced damage bonus. So depending on how much "wiggle room" you have in your build, i'd say it's really up to you.

    In a pinch i'd guess that low level MS + skills can do more than low level Strafe + skills.

    Oh yea. I groaned about the UM's because, in my opinion, fervor jewels and more speed would have been much better choices. But she was a strafeazon and NOT a frostmaiden - speed is all-important to a strafer.
     
  13. tl998

    tl998 Banned

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    So what would you suggest I put my points into after I've maxed FA and CA?
    Put them all in passives? I won't have a lot of +skills besides what mavinas and eye of etlich gives (that's like what...+4?) so do you think one point into MS and strafe would be enough?
     
  14. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    I'm not sure, frostmaiden's aren't my thing. I'd simply suggest you go by that guide.
     
  15. tl998

    tl998 Banned

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    Hehe well I think the guide is more of a Frostmaiden/Strafezon hybrid than a pure frostmaiden. I don't mind that. I just wanted to find out a good combination of skills and equipment given my Mavina set for such a build.
     
  16. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    I disagree. With the next-delay, speed has advantages and disadvantages. Reaching 9/2 makes your Strafe cycle that much shorter. But two out of three arrows will miss when multiple arrows are fired against one monster - either because you face just one, or because you have lined the monsters up so several Strafe arrows will be able to pierce several monsters. Your wife made a reasonable choice, going for the higher hit-rate, slow Strafe and getting the necessary resistances to survive the longer Strafe cycles.

    For the FAzon, damage is directly proportional with speed, so I think speed is much more important for her than for the Strafeazon.
     
  17. tl998

    tl998 Banned

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    Well I don't have any IAS jewels, so using them in sockets is out of the question. With just a shael in my bow, would I reach 10/3 or something? And do you think it's worth it to socket my bow instead with a a NEF for knockback? I don't think any other gear offers knockback considering the slots that are filled up my MAVs set.

    So what do you think Sasja: Strafe or MS? Since I don't have the speed jewelry anyways, would MS be better? Or does MS need even more speed?

    P.S: That thread in the community forums with Lord Chaos went on for WAY too long :rolleyes:
     
  18. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    ^ By the sounds of it i'd say go with Multishot, then. Cheaper, less need for IAS.

    Dear god i'm so sick of hearing the slow is better argument on the basis of NextDelay. Have you ACTUALLY TRIED a 9/2 strafing WF-zon?

    The ONLY reason she socketed UM's was for resists. She's moved over to 9/2 from 10/3, lost the resists, and told me on MANY occasions that the tradeoff was very, very worth it. And after watching her play, and tooling around with her char in the Chaos Sanctuary, I have to agree.

    Like I said i'm making a 9/2 WFazon to play with her. Should be a blast.
     
  19. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    No, as I have yet to get a wf - if you have a spare one for me, I wouldn't mind doing the experiment :p

    I have tried an upgraded GSA with 9/2, though - and as I said, I don't think giving up the equipment necessary to get the extra ias is worth it. And the GSA even has 30% extra inherent ias. But if you've found something that suits your playing style, stick with it. Don't be sick because people point out the trade offs.

    tl998, M'avinas will have 10/3 with no added ias. 20% extra ias from a shael will take you to 9/3. Knockback is nice to have, but is not useful for your main attack, as FA will in itself keep monsters away, so stick with the shael. If you plan on maxing your backup attack, I think Strafe is better than MS because it's more versatile - it can deal with both groups, single monsters and crowds. However, MS is very efficient against groups with only a few points.

    Hehe, yeah, I guess you're right about the maphack thread - I've discussed it before, but I think sometimes people need to hear the arguments again, as newcomers arrive all the time and wonder what to think of this maphack they keep hearing about. So, Lord Chaos obligingly provided us with an easy target to point out the flaws in the maphack users' way of thinking.
     
  20. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    Knockback actually helps strafe's cause. In fact just about everything helps Strafe's cause - the movement of monsters, the repositioning of the character, delays from dodge/avoid/evade - it all plays into a slight slowing down of the arrow spam which means just about everything hits.

    NextDelay is only an issue versus single monsters or on a static battlefield where nothing is changing. Practical experience (especially with WF's knockback) has shown me that in a battlefield with even the slightest dynamics, that four frame NextDelay is basically negated. All you need is the tiniest change to alter the time to impact by a single frame. Usually knockback does it, by pushing the monster away just a fraction. Or usually there are enough monsters around that it really doesn't matter even if they're all piled up.

    Uh, what maphack thread?
     

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