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Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

Discussion in 'Druid' started by knuckle, May 13, 2008.

  1. knuckle

    knuckle IncGamers Member

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    Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    So I have been experimenting with my maul druid messing with thedragoon's calculator.

    It says if I use a dagger with basespeed 20 and wias 55 with 40+ oias I can get a 6 frame maul.

    However, when I do try it certainly is definitely 7 frame maul and not a 6. I am positive i have all the ias required.

    If the Oias isn't calculated into the maul speed then it would definitely be 7 frame, so that is bringing me to the conclusions that maul is only affected by on weapon ias even though the calculator says likewise? Maybe 1.11 change from 1.10?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Porky

    Porky IncGamers Member

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    Re: Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    Maybe you don't actually hit the required IAS for it, or the calculator is wrong with that particular part. But when I use a Grief Phase Blade, you can tell that it jumps for 8 to 7 fpa with a Highlords added, so it is affected by OIAS.
     
  3. MYK

    MYK Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Re: Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    How'd you get 55 on weapon IAS on a dagger?


    Thanks, Stephan. Forgot about there being magic items. :p

    Either way, the wereform site doesn't like me and I can't see the whole breakpoint layout page anymore. :( Sorry.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2008
  4. stephan

    stephan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    Of quickness + jewel.
     
  5. Mitch Turnbuckle

    Mitch Turnbuckle IncGamers Member

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    Re: Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    Hello,

    The problem is not Maul, but the Werebear skill which tanks your ability to benefit from OIAS at lower frame (faster) attacks. If for example you have a 10 frame Maul, then OIAS will benefit you quite a bit, perhaps bumping you down a frame per attack.

    However, if for example you have a 6 or 5 frame attack, then OIAS will probably do nothing unless you are lucky enough to be right at the next breakpoint based on your gear/weapon (i.e. you require 5-25% OIAS or something to hit the next frame lower). Generally speaking OIAS has less and less of an effect the lower your frames per attack go.

    At a 4 frame attack, OIAS will have no effect whatsoever. Again, this problem is exclusive to Shapeshifters and more specifically Werebears as Werewolves have the B.S. Fury skill which magically transforms even slower weapons into 7 frame or lower attacks (in addition to the ludicrous enhanced damage and attack ratingit gives). Werebears have nothing except Hunger, which will generally bump your attack down 1 frame and only costs you 75% of your damage output. Ever wonder why you see so many more Werewolves than Werebears?

    Werebears do have Shockwave 'though. So thats great.
     
  6. Verashiden

    Verashiden IncGamers Member

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    Re: Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    You've got to be ****ting me.

    Fury's only faster than Maul after the first hit and doesn't stun. The main reason you see Wolves over Bears is because Wolves have an easier time hitting melee characters and have the best FHR in the game. Bears can hit a lower frame of attack than Wolves as well. I don't see a reason for for the WB violin playing that you just did seeing as how after WW lvl 5 NO OIAS really has an effect on Wolves.

    But whatever, to stay on topic: Maul is affected by OIAS. However, it has little effect at faster speeds.
     
  7. Mitch Turnbuckle

    Mitch Turnbuckle IncGamers Member

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    Re: Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    Hello,

    Thanks for getting so worked up Versahiden, it shows that you really care about Werewolves :shocked:

    I was not "violin playing" (although that is a great term), or trying to say that Werebears suck. I was just pointing out that with Fury IMHO is better than any skill that Werebears have access to, including Shockwave (which is an awesome skill regardless). Yes, a Druid Werebear can attack faster than a Werewolf - with 1 weapon in the entire game (phase blade, 6x Shaels afair), and with 1 skill (Fireclaws).
    If you want to attack really fast with a Werebear or with Maul you will have a pretty short list of weapons to choose from, limiting variety. Yes Maul stuns, but that will be cut by 75% in Hell.

    The only downside to Fury is the first slower attack. A small price to pay for the ability to have:

    -420% enhanced damage at level 20. Versus 260% for Maul at level 20
    -183% increased attack rating at level 20. Versus 210% for Maul at level 20 (Maul is better in this instance, but Fury is not far behind)
    -No charge up like Maul
    -Does not wear out after 20 seconds like Maul.
    -No difference in effectiveness in Hell (ie. no stun reduction)
    -Allows you a huge weapon variety due to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th attacks being so much faster than they would be with Maul with the same weapon (with 3/4 of all available weapons).

    Although either shapeshifter can make a build like the excellent Earthshifter Druid Build of Liquid Evil. Clearly it is going to be more effective with Fury. To illustrate my opinion and give you an example of the dropoff in effectiveness of OIAS at lower frames of attack, here are a few examples. The Werewolf skill was left out as I did not want to spend all night writing this. It would of course only serve to benefit the Werewolf and is unavailable to the Werebear.


    First with a slow weapon.

    Frames per attack for a level 20 Fury with a Shaeled Earthshifter no OIAS: 17-10-10-10-10
    Frames per attack for a level 20 Fury with a Shaeled Earthshifter 50% OIAS: 14-8-8-8-8

    Frames per attack for a level 20 Maul with a Shaeled Earthshifter no OIAS: 17
    Frames per attack for a level 20 Maul with a Shaeled Earthshifter 50% OIAS: 14


    Second with a mid speed weapon.

    Frames per attack for a level 20 Fury with a 40% WIAS Grief Phase Blade no OIAS: 9-5-5-5-5
    Frames per attack for a level 20 Fury with a 40% WIAS Grief Phase Blade 50% OIAS: 9-5-5-5-5 (OIAS has no effect with this speed of weapon)

    Frames per attack for a level 20 Maul with a 40% WIAS Grief Phase Blade no OIAS: 8
    Frames per attack for a level 20 Maul with a 40% WIAS Grief Phase Blade 50% OIAS: 7 (OIAS has limited effect with this speed of weapon)


    Third with a fast weapon.

    Frames per attack for a level 20 Fury with a Griswold's Redemption with 4x Shaels no OIAS: 6-4-4-4-4
    Frames per attack for a level 20 Fury with a Griswold's Redemption with 4x Shaels 50% OIAS: 6-4-4-4-4 (OIAS has no effect with this speed of weapon)

    Frames per attack for a level 20 Maul with a Griswold's Redemption with 4x Shaels no OIAS: 5
    Frames per attack for a level 20 Maul with a Griswold's Redemption with 4x Shaels 50% OIAS: 5 (OIAS has no effect with this speed of weapon)


    Now consider that 90% of the weapons in the game are slower than this one and for almost all of them generally speaking Fury will outperform Maul. This is what I mean by Fury magically transforming weapons into faster ones. I was exaggerating about seven frames:grin:, but notice that even with a really slow weapon and 50% OIAS, Fury will attack at 8 frames 4x after the first slower strike. Plus, slower higher damage weapons like Mauls or Spears benefit quite well from the 420% enhanced damage of Fury.

    Basically, weapons with high WIAS and open sockets for Shaels are the best candidates for Maul. Once you have a really fast weapon just check out Wereform Central and determine if any amount of OIAS will benefit you and plan accordingly.

    Finally, I am not trying to badmouth Werebears or Maul or anything like that. Personally, I have only played a Druid shapeshifter as a Werebear (next build will be a Fury wolf 'though), my first build was a Maul/Hunger Werebear. All that I am saying that Fury is an incredible skill that even in the opinion of many PVP Fury wolf duelers own admission is even better than a Paladin's Zeal. Sorry If I offended you Rashi :undecided:
     
  8. Verashiden

    Verashiden IncGamers Member

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    Re: Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    Don't worry about it, Mitch. Iono but something just set me off with "BS skill Fury". No harm done.

    As to your points:

    Fury is a better skill than Maul, I assume, due to the fact that it's a Lvl 30 skill. No excuse, I know, and WBs should have a lvl 30 skill as well. However, that's why Fury has more ED than Maul in my eyes.

    Fury is definitely a better skill than Maul at the lower weapon speeds as the difference between the first and following attacks is so high. However, the difference becomes marginal as the speed increases.

    Iono about Fury out performing Zealots. 40k def + uninterruptible is tough to beat for at most 10k Def and interruptible.

    Also, Weapon choice is pretty slim for competitive play as well :eek:.
     
  9. superjayson

    superjayson IncGamers Member

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    Re: Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    OIAS is actually alot more affective for a bear using maul than a wolf using fury. mainly because theres so few weapons that can easily achieve 5-frames. unlike fury which has several weapons that can hit 4-5 frames easily.

    most weapons swing horribly slow with maul, but OIAS can help bump it down to an amazing 6/7/8 frames !
     
  10. knuckle

    knuckle IncGamers Member

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    Re: Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    Well basically i'm just wondering...

    I compared a 3x40/15 lo'd gris caddy

    with

    a fanged knife with quickness mod and socketed with a 40/15. On top of that I used highlords+40/15Guill+Bloodfist to give me 45oais. The calculators tell me both should be hitting 6 frame maul.

    However, based on my observations the gris caddy hits faster

    So I tried with a phase blade with 30ias + 40/15 jewel. for a total of 45wias
    And with highlords the 20 ias should allow me to hit 6 frame. But again gris caddy was definitely hitting faster.

    So i came to the conclusion that because all the ias was on the gris caddy as (i took off any other sources of ias) that maybe maul is only affected by WIAS?

    Or am I doing something wrong?
     
  11. stephan

    stephan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    I definitely see the speed increasing when adding 45 OIAS.
     
  12. knuckle

    knuckle IncGamers Member

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    Re: Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    How about when comparing the speed to a 85 ias gris weapon?



     
  13. stephan

    stephan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    I don't have one so I would have to scavenge for a similar type weapon. It doesn't change that OIAS works in any case.
     
  14. Mitch Turnbuckle

    Mitch Turnbuckle IncGamers Member

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    Re: Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    Hello,

    According to Wereform Central you should have an 8 frame Maul with no OIAS and a 7 frame Maul with 35% OIAS.

    You cannot get this weapon to attack any faster given it's socketing. Actually, you could hit a 6 frame attack Using Hunger and 10% OIAS! Oh, nevermind.

    Is this a 3 or 4 socket Griswold's Caduceus? I had thought you said it had a Lo Rune and 3 x 40/15 IAS jewels.

    A suggestion if you want a 5 frame Maul is 4 Shael Runes and the following Cube Recipe as quoted from the Arreat Summit.

    "1 Hel Rune + Scroll of Town Portal + Any Socketed Item = Remove items from sockets
    Warning: This will destroy any gems, runes, or jewels you have socketed. This is useful if you are not happy with the gems you have socketed and you want to socket the item in another way."



     
  15. knuckle

    knuckle IncGamers Member

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    Re: Maul not affected by OIAS? only WIAS?

    Ok yes oias does work. So now i guess what i am asking now is are those weapon conditions i set up all attacking at 6 frames or is the gris weapon faster despite what the calculator says.

    mitch - gris weapon has 40% inherent ias. Lo doesn't affect atk speed so i just left it out and said 85% ias since the main concern is attack speed.

    I can also get 5 frame from gris with 3x40/15 and a shael.



     

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