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Matriarchal Bow or Grand Matron Bow?

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by jimbaz, May 17, 2008.

  1. jimbaz

    jimbaz IncGamers Member

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    Matriarchal Bow or Grand Matron Bow?

    I'm about to make a Faith and wondering which is the best choice. I did some number crunching; is the following valid?

    Faith GMB with 20% IAS gloves and Fanaticism = 10 frames per attack
    Faith MB with same = 8 frames per attack
    (the possible difference in aura level does not cross a breakpoint)

    If that's GMB = 0.1 attacks per frame vs MB = 0.125 APF, that makes the MB 25% faster firing e.g. MB fires 5 shots in the time taken for GMB to fire 4.

    Grabbing the average damages from Arreat Summit (MB = 33.5, GMB = 43), we get that the MB 'scores' 167.5 and the GMB scores 172.

    Course this doesn't include crushing blow, for which I have about 25% to crush in normal gear. It occurs to me that as I'm doing a few ubers the MB damage would be adequate for small things and since the net damage can be negligable vs crushing blows on a boss, the MB may be better as well as scale better with more crush. On the other hand, I see a lot of praise for the GMB.

    I've had a look around some Bowazon FAQs and things though a lot of the time they don't even mention bow choices at all (!). Is it fair to conclude that the MB would be best / is there a good resource that addresses this choice?

    Cheers in advance
     
  2. galzohar

    galzohar IncGamers Member

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    Re: Matriarchal Bow or Grand Matron Bow?

    You should really repeat the comparison with different amount of IAS on gear, which could shift your results. With a lot of IAS and fanat it's actually possible to reach 7 frames with GMB, and with about the same the IAS it takes GMB to reach 8 frames mat bow reaches 7. Both cases favor GMB much more than your example does.
    Then there are stuff like +max dmg / +min dmg / elemental dmg / CB / chance to cast etc that work better with faster (but again if you reach 7 frames doesn't matter, although it does take a lot (~100% IAS) to reach 7 frames with GMB and may not be worth it).
     
  3. Borje

    Borje Banned

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    Re: Matriarchal Bow or Grand Matron Bow?

    I agree galzohar, you should compare what kind of sacrifices you need to do to reach max rate of fire, instead.

    Here are the amount of IAS needed to reach the fastest GA/Multi bp for the two bows:

    GMB: fanat lvl 12 -> 100% IAS, fanat lvl 13+ -> 95% IAS
    MB: fanat lvl 12-13 -> 50% IAS, fanat lvl 14+ -> 45% IAS

    So what different setups can you use to reach these BPs? For GMB you will need to use 20% IAS amu (Highlords or Cats eye), 20% IAS gloves, 10% IAS belt (Nos coil or Goldwrap). I am asuming 0% IAS from armour, since you will want to wear Fortitude, so you can use a 45% IAS helmet (3 os helm socketed with IAS jewels or Mavinas diadem with IAS jewel) this would land you at 95% IAS, and all you need to do is pray you don't roll a lvl 12 fanat. I can't see a way to aquire 100% IAS without sacrificing Fort, which would bring your dmg down by quite a bit.

    How about an MB? Well, what gear changes you make depends on what you plan on doing with this zon, if it is for PvM you can change the amu for Atma's to gain the awsome ctc Amp for when you are Strafing, a Razortail for the godly Pierce, +max dmg and dex. You can change your helmet for a rare circlet with FRW, res, life, stats, sockets, dmg, whatever you need. Your gloves can be changed to whatever you want them to be, if you are trying to craft knockback gloves it will be a lot easier to get a good pair if 20% ias isn't a must on them..

    I have never owned a Zon-only Faith so i can't tell, but if (when :azn:) I make a pvp-bowie I will go with MB since it allows for a lot more flexibillity with gear, and even the lowest roll will allow me to reach the fastest BP..

    This is all just in theory, I dunno if I'm missing some crucial point in favor of GMB (obviously it has higher base dmg..)
     
  4. Timmy

    Timmy IncGamers Member

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    Re: Matriarchal Bow or Grand Matron Bow?

    I would go for GMB and then slowly upgrade your gear to reach the 7fpa later :smiley:
     
  5. galzohar

    galzohar IncGamers Member

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    Re: Matriarchal Bow or Grand Matron Bow?

    Note that a 8 fpa GMB is still more damage/second than a 7 fpa mat bow unelss you have a lot of +min/max damage items.
     
  6. NASE

    NASE IncGamers Member

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    Re: Matriarchal Bow or Grand Matron Bow?

    I still see an argument not mentioned.
    If you look at the standard gear to hit 8fpa with faith gmb, you will see a lot of items with ias. Though ask yourself what other equipment you'd like to replace it with? You can have loh for huge damage to demons and giant skull for knockback and a little bit of crushing blow. That leave you with razortails, fort and atma's. You simply don't want to change any of those items if damage is your main concern.
     
  7. KremBanan

    KremBanan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Matriarchal Bow or Grand Matron Bow?

    I would use GMB and lower the IAS one step. This way, I could use Atma and Razortail.
     
  8. Lyrs

    Lyrs IncGamers Member

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    Re: Matriarchal Bow or Grand Matron Bow?

    Put that Faith on a Merc. =)
     
  9. galzohar

    galzohar IncGamers Member

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    Re: Matriarchal Bow or Grand Matron Bow?

    With lvl12 fanat (feel free to try other levels), GMB requires 50% IAS to hit 8 frames and mat bow requires 48% (so practically 50%) IAS to reach 7 frames. So with GMB you deal more damage/sec with the same gear you would've used on your mat bow if you go for at least 50% IAS. Not to mention GMB can potentially get even more damage if you go for 100% IAS.

    If you only go for 25% IAS, GMB wins by a rather small margin (less than 3% damage/sec difference).

    If you only go for 20% IAS, MB wins (since it's still at the 8 frame breakpoint while GMB drops from 9 to 10 fpa).

    If you go for <20% IAS, GMB wins again as 11 fpa GMB > 9 fpa MB, although again by a small margin (~5%).

    So unless you have 20% IAS but not 25%, GMB is the better bow for multi/guided. You can do similar calculations for strafe and you'll probably still come up with GMB on top in most situations. You can also do the same calculations for imbued/rare/cruel/whatever bow, as long as they have same ED% and very little +min/max damage. Just remember you should be able to get all the "good" weapon mods on a GMB imbued by a lvl8 character while you need to be higher level to imbue a good MB.

    Only real advantage of MB is if you do something where firing speed is more important than the physical damage/second, such as using elemental attacks (via skills or even charms) and possibly PvP. But if you're going for faith elemental damage shouldn't be your main way of killing mobs, and you can always have a +6 bows ShaelKoNef MB for freezing arrow to kill PIs if you don't want to wait for amplify procs.

    Your damage with a dead merc will be very much gimped with faith on the merc even with windforce, and with a living merc you're probably still better off with auras. Both mercs shouldn't really be attacking at least not in zones where zons are good (aka fire multi-shot from 2 screens away).
     
  10. jimbaz

    jimbaz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Matriarchal Bow or Grand Matron Bow?

    Thanks all for the input!

    I won't be changing the merc's Reaper's Toll for a while since I'm finding it infinitely useful when it removes Immune to Physical. I realise some things are still 99% resistant to physical, but it allows leeching and crushes so that's good.

    I'm going with the Matriarchal bow as my stuff is definitely not going to be laden with hundreds of IAS. I have a lovely 8fpa guided/multi and 2fpa on strafe. I tried it out on the ancients and the crushes obliterate them :3
     
  11. galzohar

    galzohar IncGamers Member

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    Re: Matriarchal Bow or Grand Matron Bow?

    If you read my post and/or looked at the attack speed calculator, you'd know you don't need hundreds of IAS for GMB to do more damage/second than MB. With 50% IAS for both, GMB is 8 fpa and MB is 7 fpa making GMB quite better in damage/second unless you have a rediculess amount of +min/max damage items, or if CB is the grand majority of your damage (which is never true in reality since even if you just run bosses you still kill a lot of monsters before so at the end the majority of your damage is not from CB).
     

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