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Martyr Build - Questions

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by WebDragon, Apr 5, 2004.

  1. WebDragon

    WebDragon IncGamers Member

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    Martyr Build - Questions

    Hi all,

    I've begun building my first pally and was very interested in the martyr build. Just to let you know, I'm playing in D2C, so I don't have access to most of the items you might suggest. I couldn't find any proper build guides, but did find a discussion of it in some older posts. This is what I came up with:

    (the number in brackets is what I currently have)
    Sacrifice 20 (20)
    Fanaticism 20 (12)
    Redemption 20 (5)
    Holy Shield 20 (0)
    Conversion 5 (2)
    rest in prereqs

    Equipment Guidelines:
    Enough life leech and DR to to nullify sacrifice's dmg to self (most of the time anyway)

    My questions are:

    1. Should I build up all of the abilities together or should I focus on 1 till I max it then move on to the next? If so, then in what order?

    2. The best I could get with classic items is 30 (IIRC) straight DR, 10% DR, and 12% ll, that basically takes all of my item slots except gloves and boots, and leaves my with a very low def armor (220ish.) Is it worth it? Or should I go with 800 def armor and about 25% ll and almost no DR?

    3. I'm not sure what to do with my stat points. In classic, you don't need dex to acheive max block, but since all my LL and most of my resists come from jewelry, I didn't go with the angelic set trick. Currently at lvl 46 I have 100 str, dex, and vit. Energy is at base of course. So where should I put the rest of the points? Should I just divide them between vit and dex all the way?

    Any input will be greatly appreciated...
     
  2. steve2677

    steve2677 IncGamers Member

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    Im not too familiar with d2c but you need 32% ll just in hell to equal the 8% damage to self you do. 32/4 (hell leech penalty) = 8%. If it is quartered in hell there!?! If not i would suggest more in vitality cuz with 20 in HS you will not need alot of dex at all to acheive 75% block. I personally think youre str is too high but you may be playing untwinked i dont know. Maybe you should list youre gear you have to help us out with youre build.

    P.S. I made a 1.10 martyr and did really well with it but didnt know how to write a guide really or i ould have tried to post it her. My char got to lvl 83 and i enjoyed him alot until he got erased by a drunken friend >.<.
     
  3. WebDragon

    WebDragon IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the reply,

    The leech penalty is active in classic. I could reach 30s ll but I would sacrifice all my dr for it, and I would still be stuck with crap def armor. Lemmie list out what I'm wearing now along with the relevent stats:

    Helmsdeep: 15% resist all, 7 PDR
    Rockfleece: + 5 str, 10% PDR, 5 PDR, 220 def
    Steelclash: 15% resist all, 3 PDR, +1 skills
    Tearhaunch: + str & dex, 10% resist all, + 2 vigor
    Bladebuckle: + 5 str, + 10 dex, 3 PDR
    Cleglaw's Pincers: Slows Target, Knockback
    2 x Cathan's Seal: 6ll, 2dr each
    Rare ammy: +9 str, 18% resist all, 3 DR
    Rare Battlehammer: 1hded max dmg 111

    Obviously these items are quite crap compared to items in the expansion, but that's the most DR I could get to ease the 'dmg to self.' Is all this DR actually useful? I have a feeling that it ain't doing much at all. I can probably replace my gloves/belt/boots/ammy/armor to get an additional 25 ll for a total of 37 ll, which would break 8% in hell. Again, it's taking me too many slots to acheive decent leech.

    You're right about my str being too high, the highest req I got is 100 str on the battlehammer, I have about 110 including bonuses, I ain't increasing it anymore.

    As for dex, lemmie restate that in classic, your block doesn't go down as you level if you don't increase dex. So, along with holy shield and a good shield, I can garauntee max block with even base dex. But as you can see, all my leech comes from my rings, so I ain't replacing them with the angelic set to boost ar, Which means pumping dex.

    I've been doing 3 dex/2 vit for the last few levels and I'm barely keeping a good chance to hit, around 75% for monsters of my lvl, but my def is simply awful. Since I haven't opened up HS yet, I expect it to go up later, but with such low def armor for HS to build on, I don't expect to get that good a def even with maxed HS.

    Should I simply adjust the build and leave defense be and just be very careful? Putting those 20 points somewhere else might be worthwhile too.

    For the record, I'm playing twinked. I can probably trade for anything I need. If you want an idea of what's available in D2C, its the list of all the standard uniques (not the exceptional or elite ones) and the standard sets (not the exceptional ones.) As for rares, we have all the standard and exceptional items to work with as rares. No runes, charms, jewels, socketed armors, runewords, or crafted items.

    So to sum up, is the dr I'm wearing doing anything? Should I drop it all for leech? Should I drop HS and max out something else?

    Thanks for your input..
     
  4. slam

    slam IncGamers Member

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    can i ask why you haven't moved on to the expansion? you're missing out on a lot, though at the same time, playing classic again does seem intriguing - more of a challenge perhaps, and i wouldn't get so brain tied when trying to decide what to use for equipment
     
  5. steve2677

    steve2677 IncGamers Member

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    Hmm if you can get the fools suffix/prefix on a weapon id switch that in a heartbeat cuz of the ar boost. Youre gloves need an upgrade to something that has ias or ar ll ne other mod sides knockback and slow. the point of doing a ton of sacrifice damage is to kill almost ne monster in the game with 1-2 hits lowering the damage you do to youreself. E.G. 2 hit kills lessen the 5 hit kills by lowering the total damage taken to self.
     
  6. jumbo_SHRIMP

    jumbo_SHRIMP IncGamers Member

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    if you use cleglaws sword and gloves you get a huge ar bonus, and good max damage(143 at level 99) but i dunno if you get the set partial bonuses in classic....if you do that simple change would make for a TON of ar AND higher max damage...

    phelix
     
  7. WebDragon

    WebDragon IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the replys guys,

    About the expansion, its simply personal preference. I've played the expansion in single player and got to level 80, so I have a good idea of what its like. Perhaps I was put off by the sheer number of new items, or maybe their power. I had a level 76 barb that was doing just fine in classic leveling in act 4. I converted him to expansion, did some mfing, tripled my defence, quadripled my damage, got teleport, my barb became invincible! It was cool! It was fun! It was . . .
    no challenge.

    The only thing that'll eventually move me to the expansion would be trying out assassins or druids.

    As for the gloves, I'll look for rare ones with ias and 5%ll. I'll replace my belt and boots with sigon's belt and boots, to get the 2 item passive bonus of 10%ll. I'll also replace duskdeep with undead crown (5%ll.) That should add 20% to my current 12% for a grand total for 32% ll or 8% ll in hell.

    The fool's prefix is not available in classic, although cleglaw's sword would be a good idea, it'll definitely fix the ar problem, though I doubt the damage will keep my killing power at par. My current weapon does 55 to 111 1-handed dmg. At my current level (45) cleglaws will do 3 to 75 1-handed dmg. I'll give it a try though and see how it goes.

    In classic, the highest armor available is ornate plate, but at a str req of 170, its a pretty big stat investment. Is it worth it? Ornate will give me about 700-900 defence as opposed to 500-600 with a lower str req armor.

    Thanks for the input all, keep em coming.
     
  8. UltiSephiroth

    UltiSephiroth IncGamers Member

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    Greetings

    I won't be able to help much as I don't know the Classic items opposed to the Expansion items. However, I have built a high level Martyr who can solo act 5 hell and any other area that I have ventured into (LoD).

    You asked if Damage reduction is necessary, so I have to explain why. Sacrifice does 8% damage to self, Damage reduction can reduce that up to 50% in the expansion. That means the damage to yourself becomes 4%. That is a lot especially when you swing for 3-4K damage a swing.

    Here is a tip, if you can get the curse life tap cast on the enemies, you will do just fine. In the expansion I have dracul's grasp, that allows life tap to be cast occasionally. It helps the Martyr more than I can explain. You basically get 50% life leech added to any monster even if you are not allowed to leech normally (ex skeletons). I am sure Classic does not have that item, but you might be able to purchase charged items. You should be able to purchase bone wands with life tap on them. Place that item on your switch and cast life tap on hard monsters, especially skeletons because you don't get any life leech from them....well that is how it works in the expansion anyways.

    You said place a few points into conversion, that is a good idea. It also requires at least one point into Zeal, which is my next tip. if you are low on life switch to zeal and with all your life leech items on, you should be able to gain your life back super fast. It will also allow you to stay alive if you are unfortunately swarmed. Redemption will get you life back, but if you are getting pounced zeal and life leech will keep you alive. I am not sure how many +to skills items you will have, but if you can get enough to make zeal at slvl 5 that would help you stay alive longer combined with your life leech.

    I am planning on writting a detailed guide on the Marytr, but I don't know if I have enough time to write one out. I hope I helped you a little


    UltiSephiroth
     
  9. WebDragon

    WebDragon IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the suggestions,

    Zeal seems to be working very nicely. At level 4 (+3 skills) I'm getting 4 hits, and since it synergizes with sacrifice, which I maxed, I'm getting some very good damage, about 30% less than sacrifice itself, per hit. It definitely fills up my red bulb quick when I'm swarmed.

    Usually I fight with sacrifice and and fanaticism, switching to redemption to fill my health every now and then. But when facing a big swarm of hard hitting monsters (cows for example) I open up with conversion, convert 2 or 3 of em, then switch to sacrifice to finish them off. I zeal against non-leechables and use vengence against PIs.

    About Life Tap, I'm afraid classic has no charged items or any items that grant out-of-class skills. So Life Tap is not possible.

    As for damage reduction, I see how it can be very useful, but in classic, there aren't items that give a percentage DR (well, just 1 item that I already wear, gives 10%) so there is no way to go above 10% DR except through straight DR, and with a max straight DR achievable at around 30 or 40, that's not really much. Besides I would lose out on plenty of my leech for it.

    Mainly right now I'm concerned with my stats investment. After I reached 100 str, dex, and vit, I began doing 3 dex / 2 vit to keep up with the harder to hit monsters and the harder hitting monsters.

    With sacrifice/fanaticism, my chance to hit nightmare cows is 74% at level 50, and my damage is approx. 750 to 1450. Is that good? I get almost no AR from equipment at all, its all dex and skills.

    Also, it is worthwhile to spend points on holy shield's prereqs and open it up now and leave it at 1 point, then wait to max it later? or just leave it till the end?

    It'll take me til level 67 to max out sacrifice, fanaticism, redemption, and get my 5 pts in conversion, which leaves me at a point where skills points become rarer and rarer and HS is not even opened up yet. The build should be complete at level 89.

    Thanks for all the suggestions and I hope you make that martyr guide, I might even help you out with a "For classic players" section! :idea:
     
  10. WebDragon

    WebDragon IncGamers Member

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    Okey, I really need help here..

    I'm having some serious problems with my build. I've gotten to act 2 hell at level 57 and I hit a brick wall. I've levelled up twice since but to no effect.

    Sacrifice is barely denting skeletons even if I solo. With an alternating 3/2 on dex and vitality, my health can't stand up to more than 3 or 4 hits, and my shield's low durability is speaking volumes about how bad my defence is.

    My skill distribution (without +skills) so far has been...

    Level 59

    Sacrifice 20 (Zeal Synergy)
    Fanaticism 18 (Sacrifice Synergy)
    Redemption 12 (Sacrifice Synergy)
    Conversion 3
    Zeal 1

    I considered simply pumping zeal, since the points in sacrifice and fanat aren't really wasted, but I've put too much in redemption to turn back now.

    Consider these numbers, with zeal at 1 and sacrifice maxed and almost maxed synergies....

    Sacrifice:

    • Damage per swing: 1.6k dmg
    • Swings per second: 3
    • Leech: 8%
    • Dmg to self: 8%
    • Dmg per second: 4.8k
    • Health leeched: 0


    Zeal:

    • Damage per swing: 900
    • Swings per second: 5
    • Leech: 8%
    • Dmg to self: 0
    • Dmg per second: 4.5k
    • Health Leeched: 360


    Lemmie also throw in the fact that I'm doing about 400 points of dmg to self per second against unleechables. Is this build hopeless?

    P.S. I'm not looking for an item list of uniques that could solve my problem, since I play on D2C, so none of that is available to me.


    Any suggestions will be deeply appreciated...
     
  11. slam

    slam IncGamers Member

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    i would say that if classic is as hard as the expansion in 1.10, level 57 is a pretty low level to be tackling hell at. i don't remember the level i entered hell at with my zealot but he is currently level 74 and starting act 2 hell. the monsters chance to hit you will go down a lot with a few more level ups and your chance to hit will increase.

    i'd stick with your original build plan - everyone does zealots so it would be cool if you could go with sacrafice all the way and make it work.

    any chance of more life leech?
     
  12. WebDragon

    WebDragon IncGamers Member

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    Well, I've jumped even further ahead, to act 3, but with the intention of leveling with parties in the flayer jungle. I'm getting over a level a run.

    With sacrifice, I take out the flayers fast, but in a swarm my BOed life orb drops in less than 2 seconds. I've ended up simply tanking the little buggers while zealing to keep my health up with leech. I do manage to kill them eventually, but...

    I have never seen my life orb jump around so much! Its really funny! The flayers do about 1/3 of my health in dmg per hit. I, on the other hand, heal myself about 1/2 my health per hit. The critters are quite fast hitters, but then so is my fanatic zealing pally! But I've got only a 50% chance to hit. So it ends up being total mayham every fight. I never know if I'll make it through the fight or not until all the flayers are dead! This of course doesn't bode well for my first HC char that I just started on the side, the poor barb is taking more chances now :evil:

    I managed to max out fanaticism, and ignored redemption @ 12 to go open up holy shield. Maybe some defence will turn this build around. I'm planning to hit level 70. By then I'd have taken all the prereqs and opened up holy shield, then I'll go back to the beginning of act 2 and quest through properly.

    By the way, I have 32 life leech, or 32 / 4 = 8 leech in hell. The most I can add is another 5 percent, or if I'm really lucky, 8 percent, bringing me to 9 or 10 ll instead of 8. Is it worth the extra?

    Thanks for the suggestions all, I'll give this build all I've got!
     

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