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Marine cleared in Mosque shooting

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by llad12, May 5, 2005.

  1. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    Marine cleared in Mosque shooting

    From MSNBC:

    [/font]

    An unedited video of that shooting is here: (caution graphic language)

    Kevin Sites, an NBC journalist who shot the video, gives his take on the scenario from his blog site (Apologies for the length, but it is worth the read for background on the subject):

    So what is your take on this incident? Was justice served?

    How do you think the Iraqi people will feel about the verdict?
     
  2. Raistlin Majere

    Raistlin Majere IncGamers Member

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    Don't know. I myself would want to take no chances if I realize a enemy is faking death covered by a blanket.
     
  3. MixedVariety

    MixedVariety Banned

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    I wasn't there; I can't possibly answer your questions with any accuracy. Only those who were there can, though many will try. Even this journalist who shot the video and wrote the article has no idea why the Marine decided to shoot, only that he did.

    Justice? A moot question, really, when it comes to war. There is nothing just about war; rules are suspended during deperate battles, humanity disappears in the shadow of impending death, and the object eventually becomes winning at any cost, honor and convention be damned.
     
  4. Carnage-DVS

    Carnage-DVS IncGamers Member

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    If we morally superior Americans who are battling the evil and insidious terrorists and villains of the world resort to killing unarmed wounded, we are just as bad as them.
     
  5. jimmyboy

    jimmyboy IncGamers Member

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    Wow. We shoot POWs.

    Albeit conviction would have decrease troop moral, this acquittal will probably increase insurgance recruiting by 10% for the next few months.
     
  6. KillJoyBob

    KillJoyBob IncGamers Member

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    The man was laying there for at least 24 hours and the marines had already disarmed all the wounded:

    "For a moment, I'm paralyzed still taping with the old man in the foreground. I get up after a beat and tell the Marines again, what I had told the lieutenant -- that this man -- all of these wounded men -- were the same ones from yesterday. That they had been disarmed treated and left here."

    Another cowboy got away with cold blooded murder. :confused:
     
  7. Steve_Kow

    Steve_Kow Banned

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    It should be noted that to a Muslim a Mosque is a military base.
     
  8. Dj_Otaku

    Dj_Otaku IncGamers Member

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    I like that last comment, because you know that is so nessecary.

    Anyway, I agree with what Mixed wrote. We were not there, and therefore could not answer the question fully. We have no idea what they Marine was thinking, we have no idea what his thoughts were, we have no idea the anxiety that was over him. Fallujah had horrible street to street fighting and we cannot imagine the horrors of war that these soliders had to go through.

    Dj_Otaku
     
  9. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    When I see and/or read events like this, these are some of the thoughts that go through my mind:


    The sound that does not stop


    26 months and 220 billion dollars later … a steady drip - drip - drip is heard

    No weapons … no ties … no justification …

    Few seem to care


    A city flattened … homes destroyed … jobs lost … electricity short … sewage in the street

    Reconstruction is just a dream

    Purple fingers raised … a government elected - positions filled … but nothing seems to change

    Politicians thump their chests … Generals say we're winning … yet in the background --> a faint sound which never goes away

    The military overtaxed … recruiting quotas unfulfilled … Allies leaving …

    Resistance continues

    No one wants to see it … Media ignores it … We avert our attention to other matters

    But one sound remains constant …

    That steady drip


    Each day the bell tolls … each day the toll grows … No end in sight

    A mother wails … a husband grieves … a daughter moans … a child screams … but their sounds are silenced as the coffins fill

    The drip - drip - drip goes on


    :(
     
  10. AeroJonesy

    AeroJonesy IncGamers Member

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    I'm not in the military, I've never been in the military, and I've never been in a combat situation. I've never stepped out the door and wondered if someone was plotting to kill me that day, if they were hoping for a clear shot on me, or if they were going to strap a bomb to a car. I can't say what that soldier felt, or why he did what he did.
     
  11. jimmyboy

    jimmyboy IncGamers Member

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    Noted.

    So we shoot POWs in their own military bases.
     
  12. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    This verdict will only serve to infuriate more Iraqi people, strengthen their resolve, and further their resistance against our occupational forces.

     
  13. Ranger14

    Ranger14 IncGamers Member

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    I'm with Mixed, Aero and others on this. Throw out all the anti-American innuendos that you want to, but when you are a soldier watching your fellow soldiers get killed by suicide bombs and people faking death and all the other crap that goes on far be it for me to judge what he was doing.

    It's still going to take us a helluva a long time to catch up to all the Iraqi civilians that Hussein killed during his rule. Pretty much impossible for us to come close. Some may not like to consider that, but I sure do. :(

    I don't think this is going to have the impact on the insurgents that you think it will. A little over-dramatic, I would say. It may go to show them we aren't going to let them get away with their terroristic tactics of fighting. Meh... no use arguing with you though. You see it one way and it will never change.
     
  14. Moosashi

    Moosashi IncGamers Member

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    Perhaps, but the potential fury of the Iraqi people shouldn't be our basis for justice.

    I think that in a peace time situation, the actions of the soldier would be unequivocally wrong, but the hostile atmosphere changes things. From the video, the entire squad seemed to react with genuine fear to the discovery that the man was still alive. They did not appear sadistic or nonchalant. If they are guilty of anything it would be for inaccurately judging the threat posed by the wounded man. That's a question for military lawyers with more information about the circumstances.
     
  15. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    Anti-American innuendos? Where do you come off with that statement?

    If you believe that dissent is anti-American, then perhaps you should take a close look at yourself in the mirror.

    So are you attempting to justify any alleged illegal actions based on numbers? ... :rolleyes:

    I hope not.



    Nah ... who cares? It's just another dead Iraqi POW that certainly appeared to be summarily executed by our troops on video for the all the world to see. No weapons ... no bombs ... no attempt to defend himself ... no Geneva Convention ... no worries 'eh?

    Hey it was self-defense. After all, the military court has spoken. Shoot, everyone knows that Might makes Right anyway ... doesn't it? :rolleyes:

    Yah, we can't let those Iraqis get away with guerilla warfare. They ain't fighting fair ...

    Maybe we should adopt the tactics of this famous American General:

    It worked for most of our Native American tribes after all ... didn't it? :uhhuh:
     
  16. kernelpops

    kernelpops IncGamers Member

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    Um, I normally stay out of these threads because I do not like to be flamed. But! Why are you calling him a POW? I read the photojournalist blog months ago, and they were still in a hot zone, not a prison.



    Yes, it is terrible that someone died, but the mosque was still under fire, and they treated the insurgent the day before. But he didn't leave. So an uninformed solider did his job and tried to protect the rest of his troop. Like Mixed and others have said, we were not there and don’t know the details. This is another tactic of the left to discredit the war.

     
  17. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    The subjects were engaged, wounded, subdued, and disarmed according to the blogger.

    Quibble over the definition of a term if you want ... they sound like prisoners to me.



    Discredit the war?

    The war has already been discredited by the lack of finding any WMD, legitimate ties to Al Qaeda, or any credible threat to the United States of America.

    I don't want to butter your popcorn, but that is quite a statement KP

    I must commend your tactic on this subject tho ... paint the left as the bad guys here ... cute :rolleyes:
     
  18. kernelpops

    kernelpops IncGamers Member

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    Thanks, but my popcorn comes butter flavored already.:lol:



    Yes, it is quite a statement. Why is this story getting so much press? It is one killed man out of thousands. Yesterday hundreds died in a police recruiting station by an insurgent, Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire and they get a 20-second blurb on the news, yet this one unarmed insurgent is killed and it is the most important story of the year.



    Frankly, Llad most of your posts are to discredit the conservative republicans (aka George Bush and administration) who some do not necessarily think bringing the war to Iraq was a bad thing. Saddam was a threat and a ruthless murderer.



    So why can’t I point out what the talking heads want to report on as a Democratic technique to paint the Republicans evil?



    I like reading your posts so don’t stop, you have some strong opinions, and I have my own opinions that just happen to be opposite of yours.

    Edit: Almost forgot, I will quibble over terms, POW means Prisoner of War.

    Prisoner of war , that means in a secure compound with guards, and the lack of freedoms, not sitting freely in an unsecured building that had known activity of aggressions.



    [begin sarcasm\] With a dog leash on and a woman pointing at the prisoners privates [end sarcasm\]
     
  19. MixedVariety

    MixedVariety Banned

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    Come on, llad. If the shoe fits...aren't you trying to discredit our involvement in the war over there yourself in general, and those who have made the decision to go to war in particular (with a side-dish of including everyone who supports the war effort), with nearly every thread you create? This is what all these types of threads devolve to; the left vs. the right.

    It just so happens that I personally rue the day we were involved with such a travesty. I will be honest with you; in general I don't give a fig for what happens to the Iraqis right about now (call me a monster if you like), but I do care about our own people. It seems that our soldiers, and our country's citizens by association, are either turning into monsters because of this war, or merely being painted as such; probably a combination of both. And that, I feel sadness for, because I believe the U.S. is a great country. The world attitude makes me feel I should be ashamed to be an American, though I am proud rather than ashamed. I support our troops over there not because I believe in what they are doing, but because most of them do, and they are trying to do a good job in more adverse, insane conditions than I can possibly imagine.
     
  20. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    It may not be the basis for justice, but winning the "hearts and minds" of the Iraqi people is our only basis for peace.

    Consider the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison.

    What do the Iraqis see?

    American justice meted out to a few lowly grunts ... the ones in charge go free.

    The brutality of our soldiers in Fallujah ... the shooting of an unarmed man ... the sniping of families at a river ... the shooting of civilians carrying white flags ... the destruction of homes, businesses, and lives

    This is what they see.

    ------------

    This war was wrong. We shouldn't be there.

    They won't stop killing us until we leave.
     

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