Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

[Romak]

Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

In Diablo 3 we're having the new health and mana globes system that everybody know about. I generally like the idea of not having to arrange potions every once in a while. And the system in which "The more you slay, the healthier you get" is pretty much cutting the time period in Diablo 2, after you kill the monster -> Pick up the potion -> Drink it. Really, saves alot of time.

But now when I think of it... isn't that exactly like mana and life stealing? If the more you slay the healthier you get, why not just have the life/mana automatically transferred to you according to the damage you deal? (in regenration form, of course, just like the globes). I think it was Jay who once said "...you're low on health - you kill some monsters..." or something like that to describe the globe system. So despite the fact that life/mana stealing is not likely coming back, the globe system is not too far from that. The only gameplay difference I can think of is the fact that with the globe you actually need to 'pick it up' if you killed from range or something... well, okay there's also that thingie that when you pick up a health orb, it also heals nearby allies, but it's not like they can't do it with life stealing (simply heal allies near the damage dealer). So, if they simply make it mana/life stealing, range characters won't be discriminated by having to go the extra distance to pick it up, and also there won't be ugly floating globes on the screen blocking your pretty view.

You could say that the globe system is somewhere between Diablo 2's potion system and my idea of a complete life/mana management through damage dealing. So... do you get my point?

 

[Fox VII]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

The globes promote more tactical gameplay due to:

1.) positioning - Do I really want to wade into that big group of monsters for some more health?
2.) heals nearby allies - I better go save that low life and enemy swarmed ally by killing that mob near him so that he'll have some orbs to pick up.
3.) delayed gratification - Pac Man would loss if he ate all of the little power ups when none of the ghosts were around. You better wisely choose when to pick up that globe.
4.) not percentage based - The disconnect between damage and healing makes for easier game balance, less need for one hit kill monsters and more flexibility in character design (to not be a glass cannon).

 

[Romak]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

1) Like I said, this is one of the things that discriminates range characters, they need to go the extra distance to pick up globes, while melee characters don't really ask themselves if they want to wade through the mod - they are already in the mob. (unless, they save the globes for later like you said in point #3, which actually make sense)

2) One of the things that can be done both ways. If globes heal nearby allies, so can your hits. You go kill the monster to save your ally, and in the process, steal life for both of you.

3) You actually have a very good point here. I didn't think of that. It also supports claim #1 in some occasions.

4) Oh, I didn't speak of precentage and definately not on 'life stealing' as it was in Diablo 2. The whole precentage system of leeching in D2 was screwed up. Besides, we don't know for how much the health globes exactly heal you, and according to what. It can work exactly the same as the globes. In both cases, a slow-killing character gets health slower.

I also wanted to mention that the fameous question "How will we manage mana and health during boss fights with no minions?" is gone if we're talking about healing during fighting. And yes, I know there was already an answer to that question.

 

[SlechtWeerBeer]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

Casters don't benefit from Leech.
That is all.

 

[Risingred]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

1) Like I said, this is one of the things that discriminates range characters, they need to go the extra distance to pick up globes, while melee characters don't really ask themselves if they want to wade through the mod - they are already in the mob. (unless, they save the globes for later like you said in point #3, which actually make sense)

Ranged characters aren't supposed to be getting hit nearly as much, so it balances out. I like the globes just fine as long as the drop rate isn't too high.

 

[paperkut]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

I'm not sure exactly how the globes work but I'm guessing not every baddie drops one when he dies. If this is the case then you can't just simply dive into combat and start swinging to gain health back, you actually have to be careful until you put one down that drops a globe.

 

[Foodspice]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

Hi guys, this is my first post on this forum (I've been lurking for quite a while now and really enjoy many of your posts).

I don't know if this has already been suggested but I think an interesting alternative to both potions and health/mana globes is a regeneration mechanic based on fallen monster corpses (a la Paladin redemption aura in D2). In the end it would have the same effect as globes but without the silly (imo) globes themselves. To me it just seems more realistic (not to mention more firmly within diablo lore ect.)

Skills could be used to effect the range, amount and type of rejuvenation received such that a higher level wizard would likely prefer mana over health.

Additionally we could have some kind of very faint effect like that of the witch doctor's soul harvest but without the damage done to enemies where you would see wisps of light (or something) converging on your character.

This would even solve the 'too-many-corpses-on-the-ground-for-my-processor-to-handle' issue because the "redeemed" corpses could slowly disappear as the effect continues.

 

[SlechtWeerBeer]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

Hi guys, this is my first post on this forum (I've been lurking for quite a while now and really enjoy many of your posts).

I don't know if this has already been suggested but I think an interesting alternative to both potions and health/mana globes is a regeneration mechanic based on fallen monster corpses (a la Paladin redemption aura in D2). In the end it would have the same effect as globes but without the silly (imo) globes themselves. To me it just seems more realistic (not to mention more firmly within diablo lore ect.)

Skills could be used to effect the range, amount and type of rejuvenation received such that a higher level wizard would likely prefer mana over health.

Additionally we could have some kind of very faint effect like that of the witch doctor's soul harvest but without the damage done to enemies where you would see wisps of light (or something) converging on your character.

This would even solve the 'too-many-corpses-on-the-ground-for-my-processor-to-handle' issue because the "redeemed" corpses could slowly disappear as the effect continues.

So you gradually drain the deceased monster's life force which you already brutally beat out of it's vessel? Sounds weird, tbh. Interesting, but weird.
As for that last comment; Bodies already automatically disappear, I bet. DII did that, too, and I think it was in the Gameplay vid too.

 

[Foodspice]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

The disappearing corpse issue I was referring to was a discussion on the b.net forums that Bashiok responded to about people wanting monster corpses to remain on the ground indefinitely. I was just explaining how the redemption mechanic would tie in with the disappearing corpses (like the reason the corpses disappear instead of disappearing for no gameplay reason).

I know the redemption idea isn't perfect, but I think picking up health and mana globes is slightly ridiculous in the Diablo world (reminds me of pac man or something of that genre). Call me crazy but chugging potions and sucking the remaining life and energy out of a corpse seems to fit better in my opinion.

 

[paperkut]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

Just curious, did they ever specify if health/mana pots were definitely out this time around? I thought I read somewhere that they just wouldn't be as plentiful or cheap or something.

I think the globes are going to work great also because we will no longer have to spend gold to get health pots all the time...assuming gold is worth something like they're trying to make it. Then we can save our money for other fun things...like scrolls of identify.

 

[SlechtWeerBeer]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

Just curious, did they ever specify if health/mana pots were definitely out this time around? I thought I read somewhere that they just wouldn't be as plentiful or cheap or something.

I think the globes are going to work great also because we will no longer have to spend gold to get health pots all the time...assuming gold is worth something like they're trying to make it. Then we can save our money for other fun things...like scrolls of identify.

Pots are still in the game. To what extent is not known to the public for the time being, though. It's possible they'll put them on a recharge, make the droprate low or something similar.

Pots were so cheap killing one monster would refund a full belt.

 

[Romak]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

Casters don't benefit from Leech.
That is all.

Are you talking about Diablo 2 or Diablo 3? Just because in Diablo 2 there was no function that allowed life and mana stealing through spells, doesn't mean it has to be the same in Diablo 3. Think before you post.

@Risingred, yes, it balance out. But that doesn't change the fact that the wizard have to run into a mob and out of a mob every once in a while and the barbarian doesn't. Though the difference might be minor, it's there.

Now about the globes drop rate... yeah I hope it's not too high. Not only they're ugly, but they also cover the screen with a high drop rate. I still think auto leeching is a cool idea >.< Think of it this way: On average, every 3 monsters drop 1 globe that heals for 100 health. Instead of that, (lets say that every monster dies in 1 hit), when you kill a monster you get 33 health. Or for the sake of randomization, have a 33% chance to steal 100 health from foe. That sounds reasonable, ins't it? I mean it doesn't really change the gameplay too much, and we got rid of ugly floating orbs that make no sense.

 

[Nimbostratus]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

The problem with life/mana steal is that there's no strategy involved. You simply keep attacking and hope your leech is enough to keep you alive :/ That's the kind of "hold your attack button until stuff dies" thing they're trying to avoid.

 

[Romak]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

The problem with life/mana steal is that there's no strategy involved. You simply keep attacking and hope your leech is enough to keep you alive :/ That's the kind of "hold your attack button until stuff dies" thing they're trying to avoid.

The problem with life/mana globes is that there's no strategy involved. You keep killing and hope your globes are enough to keep you alive :/ That's the kind of "hold your attack button until stuff dies" things they're trying to avoid.

Hmmm... yep, both paragraphs make enough sense to me. No matter how you put this, both ways are extremely similiar.

 

[Nimbostratus]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

Health globes are things you have to actually go grab. You don't just stand there and stay at 100%.

 

[raveharu]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

In Diablo 3 we're having the new health and mana globes system that everybody know about. I generally like the idea of not having to arrange potions every once in a while. And the system in which "The more you slay, the healthier you get" is pretty much cutting the time period in Diablo 2, after you kill the monster -> Pick up the potion -> Drink it. Really, saves alot of time.

Potions are overused in D2, it's one of the things easily obtainable in the game.

A champion easily drops a bunch of potions, and you can even purchase them from NPCs. So basically you attack, press a pot, attack, press a pot, repeat. Boring :yawn:

Blizzard intentions was to remove this aspect from D3 completely, it has not been confirmed what changes will be made to the potions though, but you forget about abusing it like in D2.

The globe system is an interesting new concept implemented into a RPG. But so far I'm pretty optimistic about it.

But now when I think of it... isn't that exactly like mana and life stealing? If the more you slay the healthier you get, why not just have the life/mana automatically transferred to you according to the damage you deal? (in regenration form, of course, just like the globes). I think it was Jay who once said "...you're low on health - you kill some monsters..." or something like that to describe the globe system. So despite the fact that life/mana stealing is not likely coming back, the globe system is not too far from that.

Leeching and globes are two totally totally different systems.

For leeching all you had to do was to attack a monster and your life/mana automatically fills up, which IMO is no challenge.

However for globes you have to KILL the monster and CLICK on anywhere near the globe to activate it. Notice the difference?

It brings D3 to a whole new level of gameplay and technically increases the difficulty of the game.

well, okay there's also that thingie that when you pick up a health orb, it also heals nearby allies, but it's not like they can't do it with life stealing (simply heal allies near the damage dealer).

This idea totally sucks, no offense.

So, if they simply make it mana/life stealing, range characters won't be discriminated by having to go the extra distance to pick it up,

Range are range for a reason.

You do not charge into a bunch of enemies blindly, you shoot from afar, you think of tactics to avoid being hit while dishing out powerful AoEs or attacks (from a Wizard PoV, since it can be termed as a range).

Yes they might have a problem with getting globes compared to melee characters but did you not notice the defense skills the Wizard has compared to the Barbarian. Balancing is key, and Blizzard is definitely focusing on it.

and also there won't be ugly floating globes on the screen blocking your pretty view.

I don't find them ugly, neither do I think they block the view of the game, unless you're playing D3 as a FPS
They look pretty awesome now that Blizzard has changed the animations, who knows they might implement more visual improvements.

So... do you get my point?

Whatever it is, you still have to accept the fact the globes will be in the game.

And we still do not know if leech will be in the game, although I think it most probably would but it would be a sort of rare ability found on items.

But IMO, the reason why you could not accept this system because it's NEW and not seen in D1 or D2 or any RPG.
My advice to many of you out there, it's time you learn to accept new things and live out of your little bubble.

If you don't like it, too bad, then don't play the game

 

[SlechtWeerBeer]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

Are you talking about Diablo 2 or Diablo 3? Just because in Diablo 2 there was no function that allowed life and mana stealing through spells, doesn't mean it has to be the same in Diablo 3. Think before you post.

Don't worry about wether I think or not; I do.
Needing dual leech to keep your health and mana up while spamming spells takes up more mods on your equipment, meaning you are less effective than with the Globes system. A Barbarian doesn't need dual leech, because it uses a different resource for skills.
Imo, leeching through spells just doesn't make sense, no matter what way you put it.
On top of that, I doubt the D3 team will remove the globes.

 

[Mad Mantis]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

Imo, leeching through spells just doesn't make sense, no matter what way you put it.

May I present to you the WD skill Soul Harvest. A Spell that has an AoE leech effect for his mana.

 

[Romak]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

I have no doubt that the globes are here to stay... they are one of the first things that were shown to us, and they're not going away. But I still think they're ugly >.> And stop with the "then don't play the game" claim. It's retarded, don't use this sentence.

 

[SlechtWeerBeer]

Re: Mana/Life Stealing = Mana/Life Globes?

May I present to you the WD skill Soul Harvest. A Spell that has an AoE leech effect for his mana.

Health(?)/Mana gain on kill, not on hit.