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Making PvP Fair

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by DavidJewer, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. DavidJewer

    DavidJewer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Making PvP Fair

    Just hallucinating (thanks to some seasonal flu) and thought I'd share an idea I day-dreamed:

    You know in D2 how PvP was never really fair? You either had awesome gear and would demolish someone of the same build, or you would have worse gear and get wiped out instantly (I'm generalizing, of course).

    Would it be a good idea for D3 to implement a mode of PvP where the gear is pre-determined and balanced (regularly via patching)?

    What I mean to say is: There would be sets of gear for each class that Blizzard would determine and you create a special type of PvP-mode game where your character starts off wearing this gear (as does every other character) so the element of time-spent-getting-awesome-gear is taken out, and all that's left is build and skill.

    I think it would be similar to Guild Wars, where everyone's gear is the same for each build and it's left completely up to how you play. It would be interesting, but maybe too time consuming for Blizzard to think up and create a hundred sets of gear for all the different builds we'll be coming up with.

    And just in case someone missed it, I don't mean for them to take out the gear-dueling... just to add a mode that might be fun for some of us that might end up having less time to spend grinding. An "old man's league" so-to-speak.

    What do you think?
     
  2. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    I totally support the idea, adding an extra ranked and fair mode for PvP where you get to choose from several preset gear sets depending on your C.Lv will indeed make many players happy that it isn't all about (my gear beats you gear), of course those who enjoy gear oriented PvP can still have it.

    That or Blizz finds a way to make item brackets (like weights brackets in boxing) through base item value .. (i.e ... your equipped items are worth 10,000 mine are worth 9500 gold .. so it's ok if we fight) .. if i lose then it's either i played badly or made wrong item choices that didn't fit my build .. either way it will feel much better than just plain blind (gear vs gear).
     
  3. kavlor

    kavlor Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    Had the exact same idea ,I know of GWs but another game Twoworlds has preset chars for you to duel with but still allows you to duel with your normal chars as well.Ive never actually tried these preset chars so not sure how it goes in either game.I agree that it shouldn't replace the freeform PvP but run alongside it(but not in the same game obviously).

    I think this mode should be kept relatively basic with no frills type items as then people can really concentrate on their dueling style.Theres a secondary reason to keep items vanilla style and that is it might act as a spoiler for the PvM side of things in fact thats what it felt like it might of been in GW(never tried it so dont know).
     
  4. Blackwing

    Blackwing Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    I like it, but I also don't like it because I never hated having to dig around for something good.

    Reminds me of several mmorpg's 'mini-game' feature, where you go to preselected battle area and find an opponent and both of you check each others specs, but much more liberal.


     
  5. cacophony

    cacophony Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    Sounds like the WoW tournament realms, the ones you spend extra for but have a shot at real life prizes if you win. There, you sign up, get a max level character, and vendors that hand out every single piece of gear in the game, free. Also, there are NO MONSTERS anywhere in the world. You queue up for arena duels and that's it.

    One thing I wouldn't mind, are special zones similar to WoW battlegrounds. Have king of the hill, capture the flag, tag, reverse tag, defend the king, etc etc. Make them a separate game so everyone joining knows EXACTLY whats going on, as in, you can't quest or do story mode while in this game.
     
  6. gluecks

    gluecks Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    I think a lot of customization in equipment is needed to counter certain skill/itembuilds.
     
  7. DavidJewer

    DavidJewer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    I don't mean for this to be a replacement for the current items vs items pvp that we have now. That's still a very fun method of pvp. I just feel that for certain people who have a lot less time for D3 than we did for D2 it would be good to have a mode of pvp that eliminates the need for the gear that is gotten by grinding/mfing.

    Of course it would be a lot more limited than the standard open-pvp system in D2 right now, but it would present a challenging and fun alternative for people with less time on their hands.
     
  8. cheapostar

    cheapostar Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    There would really need to be two modes of PvP, like of like what Knight_Wolf said, or else i think it really lowers the drive for players to get higher end gear. You'd want to have the best gear for some reason (other than bragging rights) you'd want to show it off. And i don't think showing off how 'i can kill this monster faster than you' would be as fun as PvP :D
     
  9. kavlor

    kavlor Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    We have normal PvP for that,the idea of this is that the gear is balanced anyway so you dont need 'lots' which takes out the simplicity of it in fact I see the gear as not being in the normal game but rather specificully designed for PvP balance.I dont think gear should be used to counter other builds as it just becomes a game of rock paper scissors.



     
  10. Twoflower

    Twoflower Banned

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    Those two and normal PvP as we have it in D2. Now that would be amazing !



     
  11. Zarniwoop

    Zarniwoop Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    I think it would be cool to have 2 pvp ladders.

    The "equal gear set" ladder and the "farm your own' ladder.

    I personally don't pvp as pvp in diablo is ridiculous to me, but because it's NOT to others, I think that if you do both of those it would be cool.

    However, if they can only do one, they have to do the farm your own.
     
  12. HappyAssassin

    HappyAssassin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    Why not play a FPS if you want the playing field to be equal? Everyone having the same setup is incredibly boring, there's no innovation, and there's no guarantee the gear setups blizzard makes available would be applicable to the actual setups used in "real" PvP - I doubt that there will be one or two "best" sets of gear for each class in Diablo (it's not set based at the highest tier, unlike WoW). They would have to update the generic gear sets constantly if they wanted to make it a decent "practice mode."
     
  13. cacophony

    cacophony Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    One inelegant and clumsy yet workable solution is PvP only stats. Stats that only help defend against player damage, player stuns, and player snares. I say defend because one-shot PvP isn't very fun for most people, and I have a hunch DPS gear is going to be everywhere else in the game. Maybe even make PvP gear have different colors than regular gear; yellow for regular rares, purple for PvP rares, etc. Have that gear only drop in PvP games or you can buy it w/ ears!
     
  14. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    Evening the field has nothing to do with innovation or boredom, proof .. you said it yourself .. in FPS everything is preset (the items you use, the skills you have, the stats .. etc etc etc) yet it is far from being boring and there is always room for innovation even in FPS (people usually find creative ways to use the weapons or the environment .. etc etc) ... so your point is really invalid.

    Specially that we are speaking about Diablo ... where you can customize your skills to a drastic degree (i.e via skill runes) and also affect your stats via some system that isn't announced yet (but confirmed) ... that removes any notion of boredom or lack of innovation what so ever.

    All what normal PvP boils to in D2 was your gear luckily being better than mine .. it was 80% or even more pure luck ... might as well go play slot machine games.

    -----------------------------------------------

    Besides .. i don't see any logical reason to oppose the idea since it is an alternative mode for those who prefer a balanced, fair and competitive PVP experience ... those who want to fight with sticks in the dark are free to go for the typical PvP.


    There is no need for all that, if making a couple of varied gear sets is really that problematic (although i don't think it is .. who said that the setups used in your so called "real" pvp has to be the same in the "alternative" PvP mode) then making brackets based on item value would help reduce the luck factor that if both players are good at the game they will most certianly will have a fair, balanced and interesting fight ... not "boooom-krush-kaboom and TADA you are dead" affair .. were you simply died because your enemy had some unique sword he found few seconds ago.

    And it ain't supposed to be a practice mode, it is a standalone alternative to the typical PvP mode.


     
  15. HappyAssassin

    HappyAssassin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    This one sentence pretty much disqualifies you from having anything interesting to say on this topic.
     
  16. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    Whatever, all i see is a way to escape making a proper reply ... also ... you have no right to disqualify anyone from anything here.

    But you are free to Keep lying to yourself ... the older PvP is merely a luck affair and is no differernt than playing slot machines .. there is no way to make a have a fair, competitive fight in the old system unless both players themselves enforced many restrictions upon themselves (no potions, no unique items, items total values close to each other ... etc etc etc) other wise there is too much randomness and luck involved that the whole fight and it's outcome doesn't matter at all and doesn't indicate anything.


     
  17. Kiroptus

    Kiroptus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    I cant believe that there is still people that defend Diablo 2's pvp as something skillful. Its mostly a luck-based (as Knight-wolf said) OHK-fest who just got worse with enigma as it became now a OHK-teleportingtwingfest. Diablo 2 has always had crappy pvp because it was never the focus of the game.

    Even the developers said it was afterthought, that the game was balanced around PVM and never in PVP, its just a tacked-in feature. The community embraced it, as badly designed and unbalanced as it was because it was pretty much the only end-game content that the game could offer but defending it as something skillful is just ridiculous.

    I think the idea to streamline the items to make things fair a good idea but of course allow players to play against each other using their found gear (tho I believe that there shouldnt be a ladder for this kind of PVP, its just a very "for fun" thing).
     
  18. DavidJewer

    DavidJewer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    I don't think of everyone having the same setup as:

    Everyone gets specific items with modifiers for the standard PvP builds.

    What I'm thinking is more along the lines of:

    You can choose to get a plain Bow with no stats, or a sword with no stats, etc. The armor is all similar (you can wear better def armor if you're a heavier class).

    So you are dueling with your character and extremely bare-bones gear, and your opponent has the same gear. It's left entirely up to how strong your build is. If your build relies on godly items, then you should go do some magic-finding and duel in the regular PvP mode. I'm not saying everyone should play PvP this "fair" way. I'm saying that it would be nice, and a fun option for someone like myself who is not going to be able to PvP otherwise, since I have no time to mf-grind like I could when I was in grade 10 and had no responsibility.


     
  19. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    Except the part where PvP in D2 is dependent on skills, and loosely dependent on items. Once you had the basics, you could handle anything on essentially any char (some down hill battles, but that's a good thing anyway).

    Melee was the only thing item dependent, but then again, melee uses no skill. Still fun in it's own way though.



    With everyone having the same gear, it still falls down to skill. Luck plays a small part, but not usually for people who know what they're doing. In that instance, char control is what wins the duels.

    One could say that everyone had the same, or similar gear in d2 already. At the very least, there was small differences in same-class builds. Everyone had to hit their effective breakpoints, maintain life, res, skills, etc.




    Now, I'm going to go out on a limb here, but what Happy meant was that if one thinks d2 was a luck based game and / or that gear was the deciding factor, it shows a lack of understanding of d2 pvp.

    GM dueling had the most balance, and was actually pretty fair. Naturally, there were classes with disadvantages, but if you could over come it, it was far more rewarding than a "balanced" duel, if that makes any sense :scratchchin:.


     
  20. SSH83

    SSH83 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Making PvP Fair

    Taking out the loot in a loot-hording game...? I was an avid arena player in WoW, so I can see the appeal, but... I don't know... this is a different game and it probably won't work.

    There are plenty of other ways to make it so that gear isn't such an issue. Maybe they'll give you welfare gear for use in PvP so you're not too far behind your opponent in terms of gear. Or make it so that player skill can contribute greatly in terms of making up for the difference in skill level (similar to WoW, where a decked out PvE warrior won't be able to kill a naked PvP mage if the warrior doesn't know how to catch up to the mage).
     

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