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Making ethereal to indestructible

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Excalibur, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. Excalibur

    Excalibur IncGamers Member

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    Hello guys,

    Correct me if I am wrong but I think I've read long ago here that it's possible to make an ethereal item indestructible with the Death Runeword. You just create the Death runeword, re-roll the weapon and the indestructible plus the ethereal stats remain so you can make another runeword. Can someone verify if this can happen in 1.13d please?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Cyrax

    Cyrax IncGamers Member

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    It's possible. Look for ATMA bugging in the stickies on how it's done.

    It's actually a bug in ATMA, not in D2 so some people frown upon it. It is forum accepted so you have to decide for yourself if you want to do this.
     
  3. Excalibur

    Excalibur IncGamers Member

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    I remember it was allowed here so I thought it would not bother anyone opening this topic. I'll see the ATMA bugging topic right away. Just one last question if you can answer. What I plan to do is to create a Grief on a Berseker Axe.

    So basically I make the Death Runewrod on an ethereal Berserker Axe
    I re-roll
    I make Grief out of that Berseker Axe
    And I have an ethereal indestructible Grief?
     
  4. nulio

    nulio IncGamers Member

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    What Cyrax meant is that you should be sure to understand its not a game bug but from a third party app. An accepted one but it's still an item modified by atma.

    I'll link you to the eth bugs guide from greebo iirc. It explains all the process.
    Edit: http://www.diabloii.net/forums/thre...the-single-player-forum-final-version.768944/

    But you need to move the death in atma and save it. When you see indestructible written in two parts of the item, it's bugged.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  5. Excalibur

    Excalibur IncGamers Member

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    Oh I see. I would hesitate to use it but since most are ok with it I'll probably give it a try.

    Thanks for the info. Hope I'll manage to get it done correctly and won't screw the item and the runes.
     
  6. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    It is hard to screw up. Make Death, go to ATMA, move that Death from one character to another, close ATMA, open ATMA, return item to character you want to roll Grief with, go in game and Hel runes out. Axe should be indestructible now. Make Grief. Have fun.

    I heard it is enough to just move item in ATMA, not to move it from char to char then close it etc... but this is procedure I do.

    Also a friendly reminder. 1.07 eth items have bonus to maximum damage and are much stronger than 1.13 items, so that you don't blow up by ATMA bugging 1.13 weapon instead of 1.07. Those are not hard to rack, so I'd suggest you trade for several axes and make several Griefs, instead of using only one axe to reroll any decent Grief just to get stronger one. Runes are easy to get these days, so don't worry about it (via trading, that is).
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  7. Excalibur

    Excalibur IncGamers Member

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    Ah seems simple indeed and thanks for the 1.07 note. I'll probably try and trade with a 1.07 one.

    I am not playing much so I am not really that rich. Will be hard for me to trade and re-roll several times so I am afraid I'll have to stick with the first one I will manage to to roll.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  8. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    That's not a good idea IMO. Etherealness doesn't affect Grief's +dmg bonus.
     
  9. thefranklin

    thefranklin IncGamers Member

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    Name a better weapon than eth grief BA.

    Unless you need the WSM from phase blade grief, you can't get a better weapon. Even though the eth doesn't affect the +400 damage, it is still the highest damage weapon with the best mods. It is way better than non-eth BA not because of the extra damage, but because you don't have to repair the darn thing all the time (26 duarability :().
     
  10. nulio

    nulio IncGamers Member

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    @krischan Why wouldn't it be a good idea?

    BA:
    24 to 71 (47.5 Avg)
    eBA:
    36 to 106 (71 Avg)
    1.07 eBA:
    36 to 159 (97 Avg)

    PB:
    31 to 35 (33 Avg)

    So if you don't need the extra speed, you get more range and 64 more base damage. Considering 375 grief damage roll it's 15% more weapon damage.
     
  11. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    In fact, difference between eth 1.07 BA and PB is higher than comparing lowest possible and highest possible Grief roll (400-340 = 60 while diff of weapons alone is 64). Which means that perfect Grief damage roll PB is still weaker than weakest Grief roll on 1.07 eth BA. It can be stronger ONLY if you need fast base, otherwise PB loses swiftly.

    Ok, that is damage part. BA offers higher attack range than PB which does influence whirlwind damage output too.
     
  12. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape IncGamers Member

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    If we're going to debate PB vs BA, I would also mention that you need a good IAS roll on the BA to hit max WW speed, whereas any roll will hit max WW speed on the PB.
     
  13. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    That's why BA is for more serious players who actually want to play the game more frequently than just once a month. That way runes for Grief are easy to get - either by playing, either by trading. 4/11 rolls will fail in IAS department, that is true, that's why you roll once more or once more. If it fails 3-4 times in a row... weeell...
     
  14. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    If all you want is maximum damage on a single weapon and you have enough Lo runes for just 16 more points of damage, then it's OK. You will also need a pretty good roll on +dmg in order to take benefit from it which probably needs a few rerolls. I would rather save Lo runes for things like Faith or Fortitude and perhaps make an eth Beast, for example.
     
  15. nulio

    nulio IncGamers Member

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    16 points of damage?
    Having a good +dmg roll is only a problem when using a BA and not when using a PB? You need a good roll on +dmg to benefit from what?

    Come one, just trying to win an argument just cause it's silly. :p
    Or just explain it better because it's not making any sense... Or if you didn't understand what was written, just let us know and we'll try to explain it in a different way.


    OK, 36% of Grief Rolls on a BA will fail, but considering same +dmg roll on both (PB and eBA) the damage will be ~15% higher and the increase range of weapon will make WW way more damaging (I'll let Gripphon do the math for this part).

    Of course, if one prefers trying several builds and it's not using a WW barb a lot, go for the safe and cheaper bet. But if you're going to get a WWer to a high level and/or plan to run Travincal for a long period of time and are not against ATMA bugging, just save yourself time in the long way and run in an efficient way by making the better choice.
     
  16. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    I wrote that if all you want is a max dmg Grief, then using an ethereal base weapon is OK, so I think I agreed to you. However, I have spun things a bit further. I understood your reasoning pretty well, it assumes that you have enough wealth to afford investing Death runes to add about 6% to the total damage.

    But well OK, I didn't make it clear that I compared an eth PB with a noneth one (etherealness would add 16 points of damage). What's worse, I forgot that there are no ethereal white PBs :rolleyes:, so my comparison was invalid. I guess that's the reason of our misunderstanding. You probably assumed that I meant something else.

    When considering BAs, the average damage difference for Grief is 23 which is still less than half the variation of Grief's +dmg roll. When considering e.g. Beast with an average of 265%ed, etherealness would add 85 points on a BA and 90 on an ettin axe, so before using Grief with an ethereal base, I would do that with those other runewords before.
    BTW, I'm among those who wouldn't take advantage of a bug of third party software, but that's a different issue and a matter of opinion.
     
  17. nulio

    nulio IncGamers Member

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    That's a good point, but if you plan to use grief + beast then it doesn't make sense to make grief in a sword so BA is best(only?) option.

    Then if you can't afford both grief and beast you'd have to see what's best, Grief+Death/Oath or Beast+Death/Oath or 2xGrief (if you can afford two griefs then it's best option since it's very close to Grief+Beast).

    For those you don't want to ATMA bug I guess some math/testing could be done for 2x PB Grief vs Grief BA + Beast BA or 2x BA Grief. To check if the constant trips for repairs slow you down more than the faster killing speeds you up.

    Ettin Axe is not an option I'm afraid. Too slow to be able to get last WW breakpoint even with 40ias.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2015
  18. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    Considering perfect Grief roll, using 1.07 eth base BA vs phase blade base, you have average damage Griefs of 497.5 and 433, or in short you gained 14.9% damage because of using eth ATMA bugged base. If we compare average rolled Griefs of total weapon damage of 467.5 and 403, which means using eth base you just gained 16% damage output.

    I can agree that 15% is not big difference, but higher damage output combined with higher attack range does make a difference in the end.

    It is also true other weapons with ed% like Death and Beast would profit more from eth base than does Grief. But, we must consider usefulness of any other weapon in the game in comparison to Grief. Death is fine of zealots only pretty much, and Beast is really novelty weapon used more for aura than damage output. So making Grief as strong as possible is a priority over any other weapon. Or at least it is for players who care to optimize their characters. Rest can use Doom too no problem, or even BotD.

    Now if someone doesn't care and thinks PB Grief is good enough, then he will naturally leave it that way.
     
  19. BBS_Agonistes

    BBS_Agonistes IncGamers Member

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    Not that it really makes a time difference, but I've always just moved the ethereal base in ATMA on the character and never had a problem, which seems to support what you've heard.
     
  20. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Yes, but I was considering it in general, not with respect to a particular skill or character build. It has a higher base damage, there might be scenarios in which that pays off more than using a speedier weapon. It's not the case with WW, of course.

    For WW use, I would be a bit reluctant to to put Grief into a BA because you need 34%IAS for max speed, as said.
     

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