Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-ing!

Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

i've answered all these questions before...

i seriously have...


mephistophelez claims i never concede to anyone's points or admit the shortcomings of the build...


wow.



Let's see, I said it was quote " outrageously expensive " " not efficient " and that it would " would take forever " on any mass of enemies making hell cows a terrible idea to mf alone.


For mephistophelez to claim that the killing speed of this build as compared to a "budget" mf sorc. is vastly different is just factually inaccurate; you're talking about a difference of a couple seconds tops. "VASTLY INFERIOR" please...


Jcakes, I'm not putting you in the same boat as mephisto up there, he's on another level, let me answer your concerns..


This build will almost definitely not pay for itself in items unless you put some SERIOUS hours into mf-ing. Personally, my own mf-ing barbarian has paid for itself twice over. However, I'm a fairly adept trader that knows the values of items very well and I use the barb. ALOT. In my experience it's better to rack up items like dracul's grasp and gore riders or unique weapons etc.. like titans or thunder for the zon. and trade them for hr's online. Then you trade your hr's for those big time rares or socketed items etc..

Horking with a partner can be the fastest way to accrue items like this.


Also in answer to you, this build is not meant to be cost efficient nor is it meant to be made by people who can't afford to make it. All my Diablo 2 buddies for the most part play honestly and have played for a very long time; they can afford making builds like this no problem on a whim. This is simply because the game has been out for a very long time and many veteran players have to wealth to make whatever they want. This build is meant for them.... as i said in the guide...


I really have no trouble responding to the concerns that you guys have but please read the guide carefully before asking because most of the answers are in there.

-Callsign
 

mephiztophelez

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

how many Meph (or whatever) runs would you need to do to get back the value of all those Ists (and runewords).
we've asked CSA this very question before.....

iirc, his answer was along the lines of "such mundane considerations are unimportant for the rich and bored...." (slight paraphrasing there by me, but you get the gist)

now please, lets all stop posting in this travesty of a thread so it can just slowly fade into obscurity and die.



 
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

mephistophelez, really did you even read my previous post...

by the way, you may just post in this thread more than anybody else excluding me ! lol...

and... you misquoted me

and.......I think that the build isn't meant for people looking for an efficient mf-ing build! it's for people who might want to make something new and different or do alot of horking with a buddy or mf without using a sorceress for a change!


please read my previous post! and stop arguing with me because I CONCEDE that the build is not a budget build or even the least bit cost efficient !!!!!! and I conceded that A LONG TIME AGO probably years at this point lol ! In fact ! I conceded that at the very beginning of my guide !!!

What I do not concede is that it isn't an interesting build that some people might think is worth making. I also will not concede that it has no uses or can't be fun. And finally, I won't concede that it should die...


geez,.....

anyway mephistophelez, you seem to be ignoring my reasoning blatantly..


Mephistophelez I honestly think, and you have made me question my reasoning, and I've really thought about this, and I really do think... that this build is interesting and fun and worth trying out, so let's just agree to disagree because they're alot of people who have complimented the build and alot that have criticized it, probably more criticisms than compliments although it's mostly positive on youtube. Anyway, we each have our reasonings, let's jsut move on; go our seperate ways. I've heard what you have to say and you've made some valid points.

Please! understand that while you have good reasons for not making a character like this, someone else might have good reasons to make a character like this.

I think you're right about sorceresses being the smarter choice in general for mf-ing considering they are more efficient in terms of area effect and cost.

Now PLEASE understand that i'm not unreasonable and I've really been trying to respond to your concerns truthfully. Understand that I have given much thought to your postion and the points you've made and while I would call some of it trolling much of it has been reasoned criticism and I have honestly heard it.
 
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Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

Just to assure myself that I'm not crazy I thought I'd take a trip down memory lane and take a look at some of the positive feedback i've gotten over the years with this build. This excludes a large amount of constructive feedback that I deemed entirely neutral. This also excludes substanceless purely insulting feedback and negative feedback. This is for me and the people that have found something valuable in this guide.

-CallsignAPOLLO



Hi, lumpor here. I haven't seen this build in action yet but I'm posting a comment to support. it seems very good. A sorceress can kill the boss faster, but if you count the time to teleport it isn't much faster, especially compared to how much better the items are with this class


Jvstm
I've played an MF Barb for a very, very long time (since 1.09), and I've basically just run behind other people and horked bodies. I've never though about killing bosses with the merc. Having looked over your video I decided to throw a Enigma on (I don't usually use it as I find it gamebreaking, but to test the merc I did) and it works pretty well, as your video shows.

However, my suggestion is when you can afford it, get an act 5 with a Last Wish CB/Fort/Cham'd Arreat's.


Bleedingrogue
oh sign i wanted to say i think it looks better!



Nice rewrite, but shouldn't you up the hone sundan? And I thought you said he didn't need leech to kill baal? In that case you can replace the amn with another ed/ias jewel


hi callsignapollo i registered to the forum for this good guide and this is my first post. I wanna ask some questions.
First one. Playing alone or rushed by someone? which one is good.
Second one.. how can i find these items? U know finiding that runes and items arenot much possible in normal mode and nigthmare mod. However, if i pass to hell mode without items i will be very weak(i have a lvl 85 sorc and cant kill the creatures in act1 den...) I usually play the game alone until level60-65 but cant go alone in hell mode like i said being weak...
Third one is as u understand i am a noob i wanna ask u about detailed breakdown in given skillpoints..
for example level 1 - howl level2- wait anddont use level X - nat resistance until level X...
like that.
U suggest level 2 nm merc.. Until that time which merc is useful?
Thanks for the guide again and i will be happy if u help me with this guide



First off, I love the concept. I can see myself doing this kind of build as Im a warcry barb from way back.(I miss my hotos and enigma /cry) As I dont really have the gear yet and Im new to the ladder Im thinking of trying this with a sorc...aka the enchantress. With her ability to teleport and with the ability of increasing the damage of my merc she would be an interesting cheap alternative. Granted the %mf will nowhere be as high but it would be interesting. Maybe get that wpn that does battle orders and max the skill hyrda. Ill sit back and let the merc do all the work, you have any thoughts or ideas on this?

Regardless once i get rich enough on the new ladder Im grabbing hotos and Im going to give this barb a whirl =) Keep up the new concepts I love em.



Sacred Mercenary
To be honest I think you should get some credit for being creative and having some fun... guess nobody else thinks the same way. If you've got the wealth and you've already run hell meph countless times on a sorc, hammerdin, whatever... why not have some fun creating a build that's a bit out of the ordinary? I think it's a fun looking build, even if I'll never be able to afford it. Good luck with it CSA.



I think it's fun being a merc. I've built the "squire" build that's in the paladn forum and I liked it. It's all up to personaly preference, as has already been said. The squire build got very much positive feedback too so all builds who rely on something else to kill instead of killing things themselves aren't boring. Some people don't like staring at their computer and clicking like mad. How can you say you're speaking for everyone when you're only speaking based on your own opinion!?


Arek
i agree with you in something apollo. you spent alot of time and wrote the guide nicely. the guide is working for you, so it cant be that bad at all. you arent rough. yet some people can see only the bad and start flaming. and yet some people cant see its not friendly. oh well..



But lets be rational.
I've read through all of this, and it's not a BAD build, there is however many; different, just as good, and most of all CHEAPER builds to do this with.
It's not an original build (as both fishymancers and gfbarbs do the same) but it's an efficient build for its purpose (killing meph/andy/pindle).
This build will never be worth doing on ladder, Never! But on nonladder, where u get highrunes for a set of frostburns, it's a viable build.
There is however some weird skill alocations, but if he wants to put them in there, let him. And with his choice of skills, there are not very many other places to put those skillpoints either. (allthough I don't see any reason for anyone to follow this build exactly as written)

It is not, by any means, an optimal build, and imo it's a very booring build.
However, some might find it ...err... entertaining? ...

Bit of critique to callsignapollo tho;
People say this is your third post of this guide, with very little changes.
I haven't been able to find this in search mode tho, so I won't comment on that.
But you do not take others oppinions into account, and you call people who disagree with you names, (allthough some of those people who disagree have a pretty radical way of expressing themselves ), you are reluctant to admit that there are flawes to your build, and you contineously flame the members of the community who shares their experience.

But credits to you, it's a well-written guide, and a quite bold and radical one, even tho not very viable for the majority of the readers.

That's all
Got a bit messy, but what the ****, I'm not an author=P



I have to admit though, the effort put into writing this guide really shows. The lay-out, structure, and format is one of the most appealing I've seen in guides.


deelay
Overall I kind of liked the guide and I hope you stick with it.


sirmessbu
True, sounds interesting to some extend. I just couldn't play a total passive barbarian myself.

In the ring you stated using nagel rings, if you want to improve even more you can get up to 40% mf on magic rings

Been great reading your guide, keep up the good work.



bobcox
Glad to see this posted again with the changes you made and the better discussion this time.


Ed from Russia
I give you top points for originality, and I am sure that your barb is very effective in MF. Find Item gives you a double chance, and therefore your barb beats all other MF builds (sorcs, summoners, fishyzons, ...). I have some worries about its speed though if you rely only on your Merc for killing, certainly compared with a TP-ing Sorc.



uptoolayte
I'm going to try this build, I have almost all the items, including a 40% MF ring, 3 warcry, 34% MF amulet and 120 mana/10 fcr ring. I'll let you know how it goes



Good read and guide. Definietely attracted my attention. I think a tomb reaver or hone sundan would be the best for your merc. I was thinking, could you keep a reapers toll in your inventory? When fighting a boss, you could equip it, and decreptify the boss until it's soon dead, and then switch back to mf items. Decreptify would both help defensively and offensively



---------------------------------------------------------------






I've also gotten video responses on youtube and messages praising the guide. I think there's been some flaming in the past and some repetitive posting and criticism by a few people that might make it seem like this guide is less well received than it really is. I never envisioned getting so much feedback in general. I have nearly 12,000 views on just this version of the guide! I think I had something like 6 or 7 thousand on one of the previous versions and I already have nearly 5,000 views on the youtube version. The number of suggestions and compliments has been a real reward.

I'd like to thank everyone so far for some very interesting discussions and in-depth conversations about the build. I think there remain improvements to be made on the build; the most glaring being the testing of a godly act 5 merc with the build.

Overall I have mixed feelings about my first 2 years or so on this forum. I like the specific and careful conversations I've had on here. And getting positive feedback and constructive comments has been nice. There's been more than a little flaming though and alot of repetitive criticism that was often not constructive. There was also well resoned negative feedback. And I appreciated most of all of this I guess. The flaming has gotten to me on several occasions but I've learned that it comes with the terrain. On Youtube for instance even the best movies have lots of terrible comments. So the flaming is to be expected to some extent. Although overall I think the discussion has been productive.

I think this guide has sort of run the gauntlet. It's not the best build for magic finding but it's not worthless. It's innovative and interesting but it has drawbacks too. I think it has become a fairly well examined build with plusses and minuses, reasons for some people to be interested and reasons for some people to stay away. And I think that all of this is true for most builds.

Anyway thanks to everyone on the d2/3 forums. You've really helped the guide improve over time and you've made me examine every aspect of it. I'm open to suggestions of what sort of guide to do next. I'd like to do another guide that is fresh and innovative despite the age of the game before d3 comes out. Let me know if you think of anything.


Thanks,
-Alex
 
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Uncle_Mike

D2 PvP Moderator
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

I've grown tired of your disregard for the forum rules. There are no limitations to time when you can edit your post so there's no reason for you to bump your threads and double post.

Consider this an official warning as your next illegal bump might result in a temp-ban.

Thanks for cooperation and DO NOT REPLY to this post.
 
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

hey i'm new here but i found this guide through google and i read all the way through it about two weeks ago

i made the build and have been playing around with a level 90 version of the build (i already had a high level barbarian without its skill points assigned at the time i read the guide) this turned out to be very convenient! as for the items i had alot of them already and i traded for a few, the mercenary gear were the only ones that were really hard to get but it wasnt too bad

i've played d2 for like years and i've always used sorceress for mf but this character is actually really cool, props to the guide for being so helpful

the build does suck at groups of enemies even if they are fairly easy to kill i noticed

however the build does kill mephisto as fast as my sorceress so far as i can tell and it gets there just as fast too


one suggestion though, i would utilize the extra inventory space for more charms because you're not going to be picking up many items anyway, maybe keep some space open in the cube instead

anyway, great guide! hope to see more guides from you on here, this seems like a nice forum

-bess
 
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

one suggestion though, i would utilize the extra inventory space for more charms because you're not going to be picking up many items anyway, maybe keep some space open in the cube instead
I think you may be right about that. In my experience I don't end up picking items up too frequently so it probably wouldn't hurt.

Anyway thanks for trying the build! I'm glad it worked for you, welcome to the forums.




Could you private message me the stats on your mercenary items and such. If possible I would also like to play with you sometime and compare the efficiency of your mf barb. to the one I have right now. I'm hoping I can improve upon the build further.


Anyway thanks!


P.s If anyone wants to see this build on youtube my channel is callsignHUSKER

i have several other builds in video form now too! comments are welcome!:wave:


 

purplejack

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

wow whats up with the stupid criticism?
its a good build if you can afford it, its definately a good build if you can afford it!
if i had the gear id definately build this over say.. a perfect geared blizz sorc or hammerdin any day!
and all this parp about wasting gear because of diminishing returns.. the merc is killing the bosses not you so you arent going to be affected by the mf diminishing returns!
atleast give some good comments!




GREAT BUILD 5* ;)
 

stephan

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

wow whats up with the stupid criticism?
its a good build if you can afford it, its definately a good build if you can afford it!
if i had the gear id definately build this over say.. a perfect geared blizz sorc or hammerdin any day!
And that is of course the definition of a good build: that you would build it.

and all this parp about wasting gear because of diminishing returns.. the merc is killing the bosses not you so you arent going to be affected by the mf diminishing returns!
atleast give some good comments!
At least say something that makes sense. MF has the same diminishing returns for the merc.



 
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

Thanks purple!

Yeah Stephan has made the critique he just voiced before, Many times actually and I've refuted his conclusion many times. But I respect his position and it's perfectly fine for some people or even most people to not want to make my build lol....


Isn't that the case with all builds.....? Hasn't it always been okay for most people not to make your specific build lol??


But Stephan don't beat yourself up about it, if you can't afford to make the build or don't want to that's fine, no one is trying to make you. Also the definition of a good build isn't that you would build it. It's a combination of clarity, thoughtfulness and originality; and not everyone has to like or play the build. The builds that are stickied in this very forum... not one of them is tried by most people that play d2! By your criteria Stephan none of the builds on here are good builds because most people wouldn't want to make them. Pick any stickied build and ask everyone on the forum whether they want to make it right now and MOST people will say NO! This is because different things excite different people's interest. This is not to say that any of the builds that are stickied are bad. Maybe you should read my previous posts which discuss this...






Anyway check out my youtube channel if you want to see a video of this build or another.


http://www.youtube.com/user/callsignHUSKER

Just look under my Diablo 2 Builds playlist!

I've got six or seven builds up there and I update the channel VERY frequently. Enjoy!
 
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diabloegghead

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

i find it odd that this is "the optimal MF guide" yet your merc has no MF on him what so ever. I would think that if he is doing the killing for you that he would have some mf to increase overall MF.... Just a thought... but then again if he has mf or to much then he wouldnt be killing nething.
 
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

yeah diabloegghead you responded to your concern with what i would've said lol

but you're right iw ould like to keep experimenting with items etc.. and get even more mf on the merc
 

mephiztophelez

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

Also the definition of a good build isn't that you would build it. It's a combination of clarity, thoughtfulness and originality; and not everyone has to like or play the build. The builds that are stickied in this very forum... not one of them is tried by most people that play d2!
that's a rather sweeping statement to make with no back-up. i would argue that there are many very good guides on these forums that are followed regularly (i'll list some of them at the end of this post)

also note, that a lot of the guides in the strategy compendium are outdated.

now you have given us your definition of a "good build", allow me to give you my definition of a "good guide".

a good guide is written for all players, regardless of skill level or wealth. a good guide will include numerous different equipment offerings for each item slot.

a good guide is written to give advice to the reader and should never be of the "this is the only way to do things, do it my way or suffer instant death" school of guide writing. a good guide recognises that some people may want to follow the basics, but not the particulars of any given setup and the equipment/charm suggestions.

a good guide for an MF character should, imho, be reasonably capable of paying for itself in a reasonably quick timeframe. the object of an MF character is to generate e-wealth, an MF guide should reflect that.

It's very easy to write a guide "for the rich and bored". It's a somewhat more difficult process to write a guide for the poor (especially when the writer is rich themselves).

here are some guides i rekon are "good guides":
My Fire Sork Guide, v1.1
My Nihlathak 1.0.1 guide
DennisKorean_Guy's Hammerdin Guide
Camden's Smiter Guide
Ilkori's guide to Kickers and Dancers <-- hands down one of the greatest guides ever written by anyone for anything D2 related.
HappyAssassin's WW/Trap Guide
Tienje's Guide to Hybrid Amazons
Yuqing's BvC guide <-- the definitive work on BvC's
Sasja's Meteorb sorc guide
Uber buriza pkownage slow 9 year old fatty guide by Chrisbeddoes (Durf's repost) <-- a joke of a guide, but very, very good for a laugh.
One Point Smiter Guide to Uber Tristram
The PvP Fastcast WW/Kick/Stun Assassin - by Speederländer
The Skellimancer guide by NightFish <-- The Great Grandaddy of all guides, probably the most read and most followed D2 guide ever.

over at the Battle.net forums we have possibly the most useful collection of D2 information ever compiled into one thread. I speak of Ernir's Things You SHOULD Know About D2
and
The Hardcore Information Base by Veneteaou

THOSE guides CSA are "good guides". if you want to write "good guides", i suggest you read them and take notes.

yes, i am shamlessly plugging two of my own in there.

Anyway check out my youtube channel if you want to see a video of this build or another.


http://www.youtube.com/user/callsignHUSKER

Just look under my Diablo 2 Builds playlist!

I've got six or seven builds up there and I update the channel VERY frequently. Enjoy!
video guides are irritating because they force you to take notes about things. a written guide has all the notes there for quick reference. incorporating a video component into a written guide is a good idea. having just a video version, i feel, isn't such a good idea.



 
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

my comment still stands...

choose any one of those guides you pointed out... are you seriously suggesting that if you look at one of those guides and who actually builds a character based off that guide out of the people that view it, that most of those people in fact do make a character around that guide?! talk about baseless assertions...

anyway, i like how you attack me on everything i do including video guides now... it seems you don't like very much about what i produce, why don't you stop looking!!!

in my opinion you are being too harsh on me, that is all i have to say to you at this point considering all the positive feedback i've gotten on youtube for my guides



my guides aren't the most comprehensive, video ones i mean, i understand that, they're more casual than most of the guides on here and they're meant to be, so please calm down.
 
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mephiztophelez

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

my comment still stands....
which comment?

choose any one of those guides you pointed out... are you seriously suggesting that if you look at one of those guides and who actually builds a character based off that guide out of the people that view it, that most of those people in fact do make a character around that guide?! talk about baseless assertions...
not everyone who reads a guide will make the character outlined in that guide, i'm not suggesting that at all.

my purpose in posting those links is to show YOU (the aspiring guide writer) what a GOOD GUIDE actually looks like. it's clear from your guide writing efforts that you have no idea what a good guide should contain.

my guides aren't the most comprehensive, video ones i mean, i understand that, they're more casual than most of the guides on here and they're meant to be, please calm down.
again: what is the point of going to all the effort of making a video guide and getting SO MUCH information plain WRONG?

that's my current issue with your guides, the sheer amount of outright wrong information you are peddling.



 
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

They're called mistakes...

and it's good when someone points them out, but don't hate
i made some errors and i didn't realize a few things but i was by no means "peddling" misinformation, i would like to point out that my diablo guides get high reviews on youtube...


also, my comment still stands...

what i said about Stephan's requirements for a guide to be good remains true and although you seem to think you refuted my statement that most people who read/watch a guide need to want to try it for the guide to be good remains true and i stand by that assertion


mephisto you're on the verge of harassing me, you comment on anything i put up instantly, criticize every aspect you can and many of your criticisms are harsh and sound more like insults or damnations, you usually concludes with a this whole guide sucks sort of sentiment, but you don't move on !

whenever someone comments and leaves postive feedback you hate on them too ! you criticize everything they say and dismiss them as basically idiots

i know there are some very good guides on here and my guides certainly aren't all a detailed as those, although i think this guide is very detailed, mainly i refer to the videos but, what i want to say is that you need to understand something, it is rude to trash everything someone does and even ruder to continually re-trash those things


i've tried to be nice to you but you are just not sympathetic, i might need correcting or advice or criticism but i don't need your hate please take it elsewhere!
 
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Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

calm down...


you obviously dont like this build why are you still here?!

stop attacking the people who do like this build! you have commented in here almost as much as me it seems, your opinions have been restated too many times if anyone needs to see them all they have to do is pick a page! lol please!
 
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M As in Massacre

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

I enjoyed the guide and it is an interesting take on a singer.
I would honestly use a couple points in Natural Resistance and allocate them elsewhere; but then again that is all based on opinion, no? Since I do have the ability to try this out, I will and will leave feedback after I've put some first-hand experience at playing it.

As to those who are flaming the build: It's a game and it's all in fun; for some people this build (LIKE a Goldfind barb) will be fun.
 
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-

Thanks soo much for your support M

Sometimes it gets tiring on these forums because people on here tend to be excessively critical or often.. downright mean


anyway if you need help with the build let me know, try following it as close as you can, and make sure the merc items are the ones i laid out with the best stats you can get; that's really important


good luck! p.s for the 5 total now people that have personally told me they are trying the build it has worked for 4 of them! Good luck!:thumbup:
 
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