callsignapollo
Banned
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
Why's that?
Why's that?
Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-ing!
- Thread starter callsignapollo
- Start date
lumpor
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
I play ladder, so I haven't made this build yet. but why is it required that I've made the build in order to talk about it?
Anyway, spending them anywhere? Bash? Buying equipment spots with skill points is imo worth it. You could use a small charm, but that takes an inventory spot. You don't have infinite capacities to use small charms. In order for your theory to work, skill points have to be more worth than inventory slots, which clearly isn't the case.
I play ladder, so I haven't made this build yet. but why is it required that I've made the build in order to talk about it?
Anyway, spending them anywhere? Bash? Buying equipment spots with skill points is imo worth it. You could use a small charm, but that takes an inventory spot. You don't have infinite capacities to use small charms. In order for your theory to work, skill points have to be more worth than inventory slots, which clearly isn't the case.
callsignapollo
Banned
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
this forum is rather unfriendly, i've been checking alot of other threads and there is alot of negative feedback for just about everyone; from the people with a question to the pros with a well polished guide.
There's even a large portion of the state of the forum address devoted tot his subject.
It seems that the problems have persisted.
It's unfortunate, and I'm not just saying this because of what's in my threads. I'm saying it because I see what's in everybody's threads. There are nice forums out there with positive helpful atmosphere's so don't think that this is just a feature of forums in general.
this forum is rather unfriendly, i've been checking alot of other threads and there is alot of negative feedback for just about everyone; from the people with a question to the pros with a well polished guide.
There's even a large portion of the state of the forum address devoted tot his subject.
It seems that the problems have persisted.
It's unfortunate, and I'm not just saying this because of what's in my threads. I'm saying it because I see what's in everybody's threads. There are nice forums out there with positive helpful atmosphere's so don't think that this is just a feature of forums in general.
Cppo-The-Wild
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
if that's how you feel then diii.net isn't probably the right forum for you. nothing wrong with that
-Cppo
if that's how you feel then diii.net isn't probably the right forum for you. nothing wrong with that
-Cppo
callsignapollo
Banned
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
Or maybe it's not the right forum for the people I'm addressing...
Or maybe it's not the right forum for the people I'm addressing...
Last edited:
Arek
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
i agree with you in something apollo. you spent alot of time and wrote the guide nicely. the guide is working for you, so it cant be that bad at all. you arent rough. yet some people can see only the bad and start flaming. and yet some people cant see its not friendly. oh well..
i agree with you in something apollo. you spent alot of time and wrote the guide nicely. the guide is working for you, so it cant be that bad at all. you arent rough. yet some people can see only the bad and start flaming. and yet some people cant see its not friendly. oh well..
ThomasJohnsen
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
Having studied this thread several times (and had some good laughs too), I feel, that a couple of remarks are in order:
1) You have made a very well structured and nicely designed guide on a character, you enjoy playing. This is all good and well, but a nice layout isn't enough for a sticky. A guide needs to have some sort of originality. As many have pointed out allready, this is just a crippled singer without goldfinding capabilities (IMO at least).
2) The reason why people keep posting what you claim to be unfriendly remarks, is because you fail to strike a convincing argument as to why your build is significantly better than existing guides at mf'ing. I have read all 3 of your guides (a looong read) and it seems to me, that instead of taking advice from very (read very very!) experienced players, you just state: "if you don't like it then don't build it". Or something along the lines of "hahahalulz". I would assume, that the object of a guide is for people to actually use it.
Just my $0.05.
Oh and to argue with players, who have accumulated more wealth on the current ladder, than you have on non-ladder seems a bit foolish. They must be doing something right, or?
#EDIT: Oh and what other forums might you be talking about? I'd really like to check out any forum more friendly than this. I'm sure uncle_mike will look the other way, if you post a link. Please note that the people posting here, were trying to help you build a well-polished a sticky-worthy guide, but you discarded their advice (at least that's the way I see it).
I have experienced exactly the opposite. I have encountered alot of very friendly and helpfull people here and made some very good friends.
Having studied this thread several times (and had some good laughs too), I feel, that a couple of remarks are in order:
1) You have made a very well structured and nicely designed guide on a character, you enjoy playing. This is all good and well, but a nice layout isn't enough for a sticky. A guide needs to have some sort of originality. As many have pointed out allready, this is just a crippled singer without goldfinding capabilities (IMO at least).
2) The reason why people keep posting what you claim to be unfriendly remarks, is because you fail to strike a convincing argument as to why your build is significantly better than existing guides at mf'ing. I have read all 3 of your guides (a looong read) and it seems to me, that instead of taking advice from very (read very very!) experienced players, you just state: "if you don't like it then don't build it". Or something along the lines of "hahahalulz". I would assume, that the object of a guide is for people to actually use it.
Just my $0.05.
Oh and to argue with players, who have accumulated more wealth on the current ladder, than you have on non-ladder seems a bit foolish. They must be doing something right, or?
#EDIT: Oh and what other forums might you be talking about? I'd really like to check out any forum more friendly than this. I'm sure uncle_mike will look the other way, if you post a link. Please note that the people posting here, were trying to help you build a well-polished a sticky-worthy guide, but you discarded their advice (at least that's the way I see it).
mephiztophelez
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
the knowledgeable posters hereabouts will happily answer any question (or point people at the answer), regardless of how noob it may seem.
we will also offer constructive criticism on guides. most often, the guide writer is glad of such feedback.
where we become decidedly unfriendly, is when we are confronted with exactly the same guide, for a THIRD TIME, and the author (in this case, you) refuses point blank to hear anyone else's valid feedback or criticism (again, in this case: YOU).
don't talk down to us, or make out that we know nothing.
in your first post of this thread, we gave some quite constructive feedback, all of which you ignored. now we are at iteration three, with all the perfectly valid criticism ignored, we kind of get a little tired of explaining the same flaws over and over and over again, hence, we get a little testy.
around here, where we actually have intelligent posters who know what they are talking about, it goes down like a lead balloon.
edit: please can we just let this thread die!!!!!!!
lol, actually, this is a very friendly forum by and large.
the knowledgeable posters hereabouts will happily answer any question (or point people at the answer), regardless of how noob it may seem.
we will also offer constructive criticism on guides. most often, the guide writer is glad of such feedback.
where we become decidedly unfriendly, is when we are confronted with exactly the same guide, for a THIRD TIME, and the author (in this case, you) refuses point blank to hear anyone else's valid feedback or criticism (again, in this case: YOU).
don't talk down to us, or make out that we know nothing.
in your first post of this thread, we gave some quite constructive feedback, all of which you ignored. now we are at iteration three, with all the perfectly valid criticism ignored, we kind of get a little tired of explaining the same flaws over and over and over again, hence, we get a little testy.
possibly not. this "guide" strikes me as something that would go down a treat at diablo2.com or d2jsp.org.
around here, where we actually have intelligent posters who know what they are talking about, it goes down like a lead balloon.
edit: please can we just let this thread die!!!!!!!
Jcakes
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
I can assure you that people at the basin would feel exactly the same way about this guide as most of the people here do (maybe even more so as they won't trade for anything above pul).
The problem with this guide is that it spends a lot of high runes and achieves nothing by doing so. The guide trys to maximise the quality of the drops (by using insane ammounts of mf). The problem with that is that insane amounts of mf don't really achieve much (due to decreasing returns) in fact doubling mf (from 500 to 1000) only gives a net increase in quality of 20%.
What this means is that if I can kill meph 20% faster than the barb (not that difficult with a sorc) then I will get the same quality of items and 20% more quantity (higher chance of a godly rare/magic item), not to mention if the sorc quest drops meph (something the barb can't do as he needs to level his merc) the quality will almost always be higher even if they run at the same speed (need to check the calculations for this).
Finally if you are after the items that are worth the most in the game (socketables etc.) you want to be running the WS K (note this means killing all the boss packs on the way to baal not just running to baal - see guides by NF for details) something that a barb with no AOE is going to be completely inept at. So for these reasons this barb is NOT an optimal mfer, he is however a waste of Ists so that you can gloat about having the biggest (rather useless) mf number.
I can assure you that people at the basin would feel exactly the same way about this guide as most of the people here do (maybe even more so as they won't trade for anything above pul).
The problem with this guide is that it spends a lot of high runes and achieves nothing by doing so. The guide trys to maximise the quality of the drops (by using insane ammounts of mf). The problem with that is that insane amounts of mf don't really achieve much (due to decreasing returns) in fact doubling mf (from 500 to 1000) only gives a net increase in quality of 20%.
What this means is that if I can kill meph 20% faster than the barb (not that difficult with a sorc) then I will get the same quality of items and 20% more quantity (higher chance of a godly rare/magic item), not to mention if the sorc quest drops meph (something the barb can't do as he needs to level his merc) the quality will almost always be higher even if they run at the same speed (need to check the calculations for this).
Finally if you are after the items that are worth the most in the game (socketables etc.) you want to be running the WS K (note this means killing all the boss packs on the way to baal not just running to baal - see guides by NF for details) something that a barb with no AOE is going to be completely inept at. So for these reasons this barb is NOT an optimal mfer, he is however a waste of Ists so that you can gloat about having the biggest (rather useless) mf number.
mephiztophelez
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
i really don't think the Amazon Basin would "appreciate" this guide at all and i can promise you it would last all of about 2 seconds at the Barons Bazaar.
d2jsp is the place for this kind of dupewhore garbage.
i rekon that this guide would either be locked/deleted at the Basin (for it's un-Basinly equipment setup) or would be flamed into oblivion by AB'ers.
i really don't think the Amazon Basin would "appreciate" this guide at all and i can promise you it would last all of about 2 seconds at the Barons Bazaar.
d2jsp is the place for this kind of dupewhore garbage.
callsignapollo
Banned
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
Yes very friendly... Oh and constructive! too!
As I said before, some people...........:coffee:
Yes very friendly... Oh and constructive! too!
As I said before, some people...........:coffee:
mephiztophelez
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
I, and many others, tried to be friendly to you and all we got in return was ignored.
given that you've totally ignored all the constructive criticism and advice i (and many others) have given you, i don't feel there's any point in continuing to offer constructive criticism. especially since you merely respond to such advice by saying "you just don't get the point of this build" and other such pithy statements.
I, and many others, tried to be friendly to you and all we got in return was ignored.
well, jsp IS a place where this sort of guide would be fawned over.
Jcakes
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
I think by and large the criticism here has been good and I haven't seen the OP adress any of the criticism at all (except by saying stop flaming me).
The major issue that criticism is brining up is that the guide won't do what you say it will do, it attempts to maximise drops in an inefficient way, while using extreme ammounts of high runes. There is nothing wrong with the guide persay, just what it says it does (Optimal MF-ing). I believe this is the main reason people have been so critical is the claim of optimal.
Optimisation is about balance (in this case balancing speed (number of drops) and quality (mf)). The problem with trying to balance these two is that mf suffers from diminishing returns, thus almost always the best way to balance mf is to get it to a point (usually around 300) and then focus on kill speed.
Your guide attempts to do the opposite of what most people do (that is you focus on getting your mf as high as possible) the problem with that (as has been proved many times above) is that the increase in mf only affects the quality of a drop minutely (going from 500-1000 is a relative increase of only 20%). As a consequnce of this, someone who can run meph faster than you will not only get more drops over time (including sort after rares and magics) but the same number of arachnids mesh's for a given time (say 1 hour).
I think by and large the criticism here has been good and I haven't seen the OP adress any of the criticism at all (except by saying stop flaming me).
The major issue that criticism is brining up is that the guide won't do what you say it will do, it attempts to maximise drops in an inefficient way, while using extreme ammounts of high runes. There is nothing wrong with the guide persay, just what it says it does (Optimal MF-ing). I believe this is the main reason people have been so critical is the claim of optimal.
Optimisation is about balance (in this case balancing speed (number of drops) and quality (mf)). The problem with trying to balance these two is that mf suffers from diminishing returns, thus almost always the best way to balance mf is to get it to a point (usually around 300) and then focus on kill speed.
Your guide attempts to do the opposite of what most people do (that is you focus on getting your mf as high as possible) the problem with that (as has been proved many times above) is that the increase in mf only affects the quality of a drop minutely (going from 500-1000 is a relative increase of only 20%). As a consequnce of this, someone who can run meph faster than you will not only get more drops over time (including sort after rares and magics) but the same number of arachnids mesh's for a given time (say 1 hour).
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
Zigackly what I said, but that was ignored by the OP too.
I really don't think he's going to change his opinion!
Socialism
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
At some point in this thread housing a guide that's essentially the opposite of yours, I transform into a total prick (damn people who don't read through threads and ask questions that have already been answered) - but still, everyone is super nice.
You're getting people's feedback. Not all constructive, but at least they're not indifferent. If they were unfriendly, they wouldn't bother posting in your thread.
At some point in this thread housing a guide that's essentially the opposite of yours, I transform into a total prick (damn people who don't read through threads and ask questions that have already been answered) - but still, everyone is super nice.
You're getting people's feedback. Not all constructive, but at least they're not indifferent. If they were unfriendly, they wouldn't bother posting in your thread.
callsignapollo
Banned
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
I think i might switch forums because this one is ****
I think i might switch forums because this one is ****
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
please hurry up and leave if all you're going to do is flame the quality of the people on this forum.