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Lv20 Dim Vision

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by kreality, May 11, 2008.

  1. kreality

    kreality IncGamers Member

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    Lv20 Dim Vision

    Is anyone here maxed this skill before? If yes, How superior was the Maxed Dim Vision? Especially in the hell mode?

    I am thinking to invest all my remain skills point for it but I afraid that I might regret later..that why I want to seek few opinion about it in this board.

    Anyone?
     
  2. MedctnStn

    MedctnStn IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    IMO, it's not necessary to max it, as long as you have lots of +skills on your equipment. Pretty sure all it does is increase radius and maybe length of curse. Depending on your build, there are other skills to invest in.
     
  3. solutionx

    solutionx IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    I've never found this thing useful. I tried it at lower levels and found the duration to be too low, and it simply wasn't good enough to spend points into. I've saved some points unsure myself where to put them into, but it'll either be golem mastery, summon resist, or terror, completely depending on which one will help me do ubers after I get my gear.

    I can tell you one thing with almost complete certainty: The only place where Dim Vision would surely help a bit in hell difficulty would be in WSK; specifically, against Black Souls. Even then, they lightning your *** from two screens away, so it's less useful than it should be.

    edit: Heck, now that I think about it, Attract might be a better curse to use against Black Souls and whatever other units you would've thought of using Dim Vision against. At least that curse stacks, and its radius/duration helps tremendously.
     
  4. kreality

    kreality IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    Do you actually speak from the experience or theory? I mean, which skills actually have insane duration at lower level?

    That was the reason why I created this thread because I am seeking for those players who actually maxed Dim Vision...and I want to heard from their experience...

    Just as someone who actually maxed Corpse Explosion only know how effective/powerful is that spell...compare to someone who only read the skills description...


     
  5. mephiztophelez

    mephiztophelez IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    maxing dim vision has been a favourite tactic of hardcore summoners for a long time.

    there's nothing like being able to shut down two screens worth of monsters with a single click of your mouse.

    on a summoner, it's as good a place as any to dump spare skillpoints. personally, i dropped about ~8 into it on my softcore skellynec, which seems to be plenty.

    err, thats not the "only" scenario where dim is useful.

    Nihlathak, Chaos Sanctuary, a lot of act 2 (damn slingers) and Act 4 all come to mind as places where dim vision is really useful.

    Amp, Dim and Attract are the three curses i use most.



     
  6. Jednowlosy

    Jednowlosy IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    I feel that this spell, if not maxed, has too poor duration to make it useful on hell. Remember that its duration is like quartered on hell difficulty, so I'd either put 20 points here, or none. It's up to you if you need the blinding spell. If monsters like burning souls are problematic, and you do not plan getting perfect stuff which makes them not very scary, do it. If not, forget it. I can guarantee you that I never used it once I got my hands on really good necro gear. There was simply need for it, since ordinary monsters weren't a challenge, and it doesn't work on anything else.
     
  7. CoolDarkDragon

    CoolDarkDragon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    Wouldn't it be kinda pointless to use attract on black souls, since they cast lightning, and are also immune to lightning?



     
  8. Nimbostratus

    Nimbostratus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    True they won't hurt each other, but it still means they're firing at something that isn't you.



     
  9. piggybank

    piggybank IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    Yeah, but the lightning doesn't stop when it hits a target, so if you attract a soul at the edge of the screen, and there are 6 or 7 souls on the other side of him, you will still have a bunch of lightning coming your direction.

    At least that's how I would imagine it happening... I've never messed with attract at high levels.


     
  10. Dirkw

    Dirkw IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    I've had dim vision on 2 played characters and 1 (maxed) on a hero-editor character.

    From my experience, and this is SCL and SP experience, its duration and power is fine at around level 20. Since its use is so situational by nature (you mostly use amp), I feel it's the right level for the skill, although once in a blue moon, I would wish for the duration to be a bit greater.

    Since summon necs always have some leftover points, the debate remains whether the remaining skill points should go in dim vision or not (levelling it beyond level 20). Looking at the alternatives, we can have a stronger golem, or a (better) bone armor, or more revives. The final option is to invest in summon resist. My conclusion is and has been: who really cares? But, if we háve to care, we can, a bit.

    It just doesn't matter much though. The most effective solution would probably be to pump bone armor rather than the other alternatives because
    a) getting hit directly is almost always a possibility
    b) from the point where you got a decent dim vision, it is generally better to achieve more survivability through bone armor than through a stronger dim vision, because bone armor works next to any curses you cast (be it amp or dim)
    c) golems just don't die anymore, at some point. The question is whether you need to invest skill points in the golem to be a strong survivor or if your +summoning skills are strong enough. Gameplay will ofcourse give you the answer, as it varies per difference between characters.

    Conclusively, dim vision is well worth spending the points on until it has reached level 20, because before that point, extra points in dim vision will be very effective in dealing with those situations where you really need some solid crowd control - more so than bone armor. Beyond level 20, Dim vision will have reached its comfort zone, where the duration is strong enough for you to not have to recast all too often and the radius is very great. More points would make it a matter of luxury, which is still better than making an invincible golem more invincible (...), but still plenty wasteful in my eyes, and not better than a more powerful bone armor.

    I don't like attract at all. I feel it has some dodgy, unreliable sense to it, especially when compared to Dim.

    It should go without saying that CE, SM, RS are ofcourse the core skills that really need to be maxed, before you start considering where to put the points elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2008
  11. Arrinao

    Arrinao IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    Well man I've got the same problem. We're playing a trio Summoner, Enchantress and Paladin with conviction and concentration in case we meet fire immunes, and I'm still on doubt whether to pump up dim vision or not. This skill seems to me of no use when on low level, because than it has too small radius which means you cant dim monsters behind the screen. Basically dim is pointless then because as arreat summit says the monsters will then continue to pursue you into melee range (if they're not long range attackers). However my point is a maxed out Dim with let's say 10 additional points from gear and Radius 22 yards.
    Casting this all the time should disable all monsters we meet excluding uniques of course...
    However because our build is based on maxing damage output of skeletons through enchant and combination of Lower resist and Conviction, I have to cast LR on all monsters we engage which will overwrite Dim. I was wondering about casting Dim vision and then Attract once since Attract can't be overwritten, but this curse has very low duration and radius plus it works on some very strange and undependant behaviour.
    Please, give me some advice with this.
     
  12. NumtyDoo

    NumtyDoo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    I would still use amp over lower resist. The paladin's conviction should just about bring everything to -100 resists, so lower resist isn't really gonna help.

    When I used to use DV (don't anymore, found it too situational, but it does work well) I would use decrep where my skellies were attacking that way all the monsters on the edge of the screen stayed blinded.
     
  13. Greyeagle

    Greyeagle IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    Max DV is fun. Everyone should try out a summoner with Max DV sometime in their life. What's not to like about running the entire game where monsters don't even know you are there until your minions walk up and kill them? <excepting things that can't be dimmed of course>

    I tend to agree with the max or 1 pt feeling for this skill. I've done halves before though, and still found it useful.

    Again, echoing what has already been said, this is a favored skill to max for hardcore. That alone should say that it is valuable. Whether you like to use the hardcore mindset in softcore is another question entirely.
     
  14. MalVeauX

    MalVeauX IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    Heya,

    I always max dim vision on my Necro, or at least try to get it to 10 before +skills. It's just such a powerful curse. It's crowd control. It'd defense. It's just so damn powerful.

    At high levels, it will cover everything and you'll never run up on a "dead" moment where something spikes you and you die (like gloams, etc). You walk up safely and the only things not blind are bosses/uniques and it's fine to see them. Mean while, everything else is just chilling and being dumb. You can then completely destroy them at your will.

    Here's some examples of one of my maxed Dim Vision on a Necro in Hell, in the WorldStone, just letting a Golem and Merc do the actual work:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPUlKRM-wME

    Here's him again, saving Hell Anya with Dim Vision (6 minutes):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmqkp3jhsgw

    Here we go again, killing Izzy in Hell:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O8xFvZ6npM

    ^ You'll note, I never even carry health potions. Just mana. Blind, make a body with merc/golem, Ce the rest. No red's needed. That's how powerful Dim Vision is. It lets you play so ridiculously vicariously.

    -- If you were a Boner, you could sacrifice a little synergy to get massive durability. Blind monsters just stand while you spear them to death. If you were into Poison, same thing applies. Drop a single synergy and get massive staying power. A really well tricked out character doesn't need this. But I like to play with what I find. So Dim Vision is like having super gear, because it makes you basically too damn good vs. the monsters.

    Note: Dim Vision is so powerful, you don't need blocking, resistances, mana, health, etc. Just stack on the skiller gear and fun stuff. Dim Vision does the rest. It makes gearing up so easy. And the best part of all, is how stupid good it is in HardCore to keep your butt alive during lag spikes.

    Cheers, :)



     
  15. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    ^ Those videos should be enough convincing. If you need more, I have a Meleemancer with 16 into Dim Vision, and I have to say, it's what makes the build work. One cast and you have the option to run or hit without any trouble. Even my tricked out Necromancers all have at least 1 point in DV, boosted to 10+ with +Skills.

    @MalVeauX: Why choose CG as a Golemlord? Is it the whole "use what I find" thing?
     
  16. Mikey Two Guns

    Mikey Two Guns IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    @MalVeauX: Pretty impressive, certainly ideal for a HC player. However, as a SC player, I noticed your killing speed was pretty slow.

    Killing speed vs. survival (or SC vs HC) is what it all comes down to when deciding to put 1 or 20 points into Dim Vision, I guess.

    (edit) I am making this conclusion in terms of being a summoner. I can not speak for bonemancers, poisonmancers, etc.
     
  17. Niniux

    Niniux IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    My summon necro teams with a sorceress most of the time and we've both found the Dim Vision curse really worthwhile to put points into. I have something like 7 points in it, so with +skills I'm at the 20 mark. I can cast it on the edge of the screen in WSK and it brings everything, especially Gloams, to a stand-still. It's also useful on those teleporting sprites, as they don't teleport anywhere. Hah.

    So yeah, depending on your +skill gear, points in it are mega worthwhile. I just wish my other curses like LR didn't have such huge radii because it doesn't let me combine curses for maximum effect.
     
  18. MasterMynd

    MasterMynd IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    One of my HC Skellymancers had maxed DV and it turned out to be my favorite - mainly because I felt safest with it. My strategy was to spam DV at all four corners to effectively freeze everything in place, and then selectively place my 1 point Amp on just the places where the army was fighting. For those situations where there was a boss pack of ranged attackers, popping Attract on something near the boss would take it's attention off the army. For my playing style, this was the most effective way to control as much as possible of the entire playing field. All my leftover points went into BW (BA synergy) for the added protection against the stray attacker that managed to get through the army.
     
  19. MalVeauX

    MalVeauX IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    No particular reason other than I like being able to re-cast him for cheap. My golems are level 1. I simply gave them mastery. Took a good level CE. The rest is in my curses and my gear is pure +curse skills gear to max out things in that department. Honestly the real meat of the character is the CE that drops most mobs. The golem is there to quickly tank things I cannot dim vision (clay is good at this). The merc is there to help make bodies; rogue was used because she's less stupid and doesn't walk up into the face of frenzy-taurs so that my clay can do that work.

    Certainly could speed up killing a lot with a pure power build. But again, the above is clearly not a power build. It's just a build that shows how powerful Dim Vision is in that a character in hell with zero resistance or good gear can get through hell and hard quests with no health pots, just because Dim Vision is breaking monster AI so badly that you are essentially in near god mode. It's just really fun and helps take the edge off in Hardcore.

    Cheers, :)



     
  20. Karky

    Karky IncGamers Member

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    Re: Lv20 Dim Vision

    That looked really impressive. I think I'm gonna invest some points in dim vision on my necro as I really want him to be able to do hell wsk. What level did you have it at there, after items?
     

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