LS or DS Trapsin

[Moatilliata]

LS or DS Trapsin

Hey all, i've decided to make a new trapsin as my last one did not turn out too well (being first character and all i didnt put enuff points in vitality and now at a level 79 it only has 600 life). So i was looking around at some of the guides and I know that most reccommend building for my Lightning sentry over death sentry, however my trapsin atm in hell cannot even kill act 1 skeletons due to figgin immunes, and i was thinking of going with the death sentry and fireblast and a strong act2 nm Merc. I was wondering what some of the other trapsins in Hell reccommend and which is the best guide to follow, I already have quite a large amount of trap+ and assassin+ gear from my other character. However for the low levels i was thinking of just using spirit sword and shield i had on my hammerdin until i can equip my +3traps claws. Also i was wondering if perhaps i shuld put some points into weapon block or save them for something more important like fade and SM. Any help would be much appreciated. thanks.

 

[wizAdept]

Hey all, i've decided to make a new trapsin as my last one did not turn out too well (being first character and all i didnt put enuff points in vitality and now at a level 79 it only has 600 life). So i was looking around at some of the guides and I know that most reccommend building for my Lightning sentry over death sentry, however my trapsin atm in hell cannot even kill act 1 skeletons due to figgin immunes, and i was thinking of going with the death sentry and fireblast and a strong act2 nm Merc. I was wondering what some of the other trapsins in Hell reccommend and which is the best guide to follow, I already have quite a large amount of trap+ and assassin+ gear from my other character. However for the low levels i was thinking of just using spirit sword and shield i had on my hammerdin until i can equip my +3traps claws. Also i was wondering if perhaps i shuld put some points into weapon block or save them for something more important like fade and SM. Any help would be much appreciated. thanks.

Uh.. why not max both if you are going to be a trapsin? (duh)

Generally when people talk about a light sentry trap assassin, they talk about fully synergized traps. If you have been building a trapper with just 20 points in LS and ignoring other traps, you are building it wrong.
It takes 80 skill points for light sentry to get the most damage out of it.
20 for the skill, 20 in each of the 3 synergies.
+3 trap claws arn't going to do enough for your trap damage if your traps aren't synergized.

Having synergies maxed out also means you will have maxed death sentry for high radius corpse explosion, which is fire/physical damage. If you are a trapper, you use both LS and DS for pvm.
People talk about LS as being the primary trap to use because it does more damage with all synergies maxed out, this is more for pvp. For pvm (player vs monster) you use both since DS cleans up crowds faster with corpse explosions.

If you want a method of dealing with immunes, fireblast is viable, however cutting points out of LS synergy is going to hurt your LS damage. If you do choose this hybrid path, you will need to skimp on your shadow discipline skills as much as possible to get the most out of trap synergies.
This means your character skill layout should be: 1 point fade, 1 point shadowmaster, 2 points mindblast. Everything else in traps. (max fb, max ls, max ds, then work on maxing the last two light trap synergies, all skill points going towards this goal, it will take level 98 to have 20 points in all 5 of these trap skills, so you probably wont have that maxed out)
For a low budget build however, you probably want to put enough in shadow master to reach (with +skills) slvl 17+, so it spawns with full gear, and has a good chance at being immune to a few elements. Since shadow master is a good tank for a low budget character.
You could always not put more than 1 in fb, and rely on merc+shadow and DS corpse explosions to kill immunes. Your choice.
Another alternative is to use a trap/kick hybrid to use cb + kicks to take out light immunes. Read ilkori's guide to dancers for that awsome pvm build.

For remaking a pure trapper, I would also recommend using spirit phase/spirit monarch over 2x plain +3 trap claws. Will work much better for you.

 

[ale beer two]

I really would advise against going fire and light traps, both end up being very week and it takes a long time to kill anything. Mb, sm, merc and DS all can deal with Li's quite easily. Grab a wand of lower resist to help out.

Trappers really dont need stats in anything else other than vit. By lvl 79 you should be over 1.5k hp's easily.

 

[stephan]

FB/DS/LS is not slow at all. Most trappers makes the majority of their kills with DS anyway. The other traps are just there to provide a few corpses.

 

[Darkflight]

Lightning trapsin miniguide:

Trap Skills:
20 Fireblast
1+Shock Web (max last)
20 Charged Bolt Sentry
20 Lightning Sentry
20 Death Sentry

Shadow Skills:
1 Psychic Hammer - prereq
1 Claw Mastery - prereq
1 Claw Block - you should dual wield
1 Cloak of Shadows
1 Mind Blast (optional)
1 Fade - only if you can't prebuff it with a claw on switch with +Fade

How to use skillpoints:
In the beginning, get just prereqs. Use meele attacks to kill monsters and level. When Charged Bolt Sentry becomes available, start dumping skillpoints in it and use it along with meele. Put 1 in all the other listed skills as they become available. At level 24 start dumping every possible point in Lightning Sentry. Get 1 in Death Sentry at level 30. Then follow this: Max Lightning Sentry, then Charged Bolt Sentry (if you have few +skills, put a few in Death Sentry first to get a decent radius), then Death Sentry, Then Fireblast, and at the end Shock Web.

Tactics:
In the beginning, just meele your way through the first two acts with a little help from Charged Bolt Sentry as it becomes available. When Lightning Sentry becomes available, get as much +mana as you can and start using it as much as possible. Use Cloak of Shadows and possibly Mindblast if you like it to control the crowd. Your traps don't deal much damage at this point, so get goodgear for your mercenary so he can kill some. When Death Sentry becomes available, drop 1 after you get a few kills for extra damage output. Level to 45 on normal Baal, then enter Nightmare. Run through it, doing what quests you feel you have to and level to at least 60, then kill NM Baal to level 70-75. Enter hell and finish the game.

 

[OsTo]

why 20 fireblast before last sinergi to lighting?

 

[stephan]

Because you want to deal with lightning immunes before you reach level 99.

 

[aznpsycho7]

Do you guys ever run into mana problems? My Trapsin is level 50 and only has a little over 100 mana, which means it's depleted after 5 LS traps. I've pretty much put all my stat points into Vit. My equipment is pretty crappy though, so maybe that's the reason. Also, how good are Trapsins at MFing and soloing bosses?

 

[ale beer two]

Do you guys ever run into mana problems? My Trapsin is level 50 and only has a little over 100 mana, which means it's depleted after 5 LS traps. I've pretty much put all my stat points into Vit. My equipment is pretty crappy though, so maybe that's the reason. Also, how good are Trapsins at MFing and soloing bosses?

Mana is always an issue for my sin. And lvl 50 is a very tough lvl mana wise, but blue pots dont cost much and vit is just too important. As you level up you will gain mana and end game gear will also give mana so i would really strongly advise against putting stat points into energy. Also put an insight rw on your merc, will really fix your mana problems (until you decide to give him infinity )

I think at lvl 50 i had a ammu that had 110 mana and 20 to energy a handy little mana boost. Just got replace with a 3 traps ammy.

Trapsins go good at mf'ing though with any class you sacrafice skill points and kill speed at the expense of mf.

No trouble with bosses, though a lower resist wand on switch helps a lot with baal. The rest die to quick to even get a chance to cast LR.

 

[DudSpud]

Lightning trapsin miniguide:

Trap Skills:
20 Fireblast
1+Shock Web (max last)
20 Charged Bolt Sentry
20 Lightning Sentry
20 Death Sentry

Shadow Skills:
1 Psychic Hammer - prereq
1 Claw Mastery - prereq
1 Claw Block - you should dual wield
1 Cloak of Shadows
1 Mind Blast (optional)
1 Fade - only if you can't prebuff it with a claw on switch with +Fade

I follow this "guide" for my HC Trapsins for the final layout, though I invest my points in a little different sequence - Max LS, then DS, then FB to 9 or 12 hard points to up the number of DS pulses, CBS for the synergy, then finish FB before Hell to deal more effectively with the LI's. Remember that DS is just as good a synergy for LS as anything else. I use an HF merc - I'm not well twinked and, though slower, I find them more durable than Might and more relevant than Def (because +Shadow dual claws and CoS is my switch). I always seem to get the 1 pt MB though I find myself using CoS 99.9% of the time. YMMV. Oh, and being HC, I usually put a pt or 2 extra in Fade - more resists (and for longer) is more better, and, though I can't prove it, my 'sins seem to last longer with a pt in Claw Block. Oh, and with the +skills from claws, I always think dual wielding is better (especially at moderate twinkage), so why not "waste" the point in Claw Block for the 2/5 or so (depending on +skills) chance to block melee, missile, and some magic attacks?

My usual sequence is CoS/weapon switch/LS/LS/LS/LS/DS/start throwing FB's (my left key'ed skill) until a trap breaks. I usually don't need to re-CoS before they are almost all dead.

Finally, I have never liked any of the Shadows, likely because I am at so low twinkage that I cannot get a decent one with low +skills. Again, YMMV.

Good luck,
DudSpud

 

[Socialism]

I've guardianed dozens of trappers, and no matter how elite the claws I get (I'm talking 3 LS 2 CB 2 ASN 2 sockets and 3 LS/3 traps greater talons) are, I always find myself going back to HotO/Spirit + Eth Spirit Monarch.

Anyhow. My recent trappers have all been Spirit sword + Random +resist shield and no points into dexterity. I just never need blocking on 'em. I suggest you always put at least one point into Shadow Master - you might not have the massive +skills to make her into an invincible tank, but any extra enemy distraction/crowd control you can get in hell is a good thing.

DudSpud seems to advocate using Cloak of Shadows over using Mindblast; if I misunderstand, pardon - but some of the most superior crowd control in the game comes from using CoS and Mind Blast together. I play incredibly aggressively (read: ridiculously unsafe for hardcore - which I play exclusively) with no block and as much faster run/walk as I can get, speeding and scouting around, COS/MBing anything in my path, and repositioning/herding enemies for maximum trap laying efficiency -- and I've never had a death (due to this playstyle - lag / AFKing in gloam-infested WSK, yes).

If you are playing on battle.net and multiplayer, I don't really understand why you'd want to solo, but jrichard's guide is a pioneer document for untwinked trappers. I suggest you pay close attention to Darkflight's post above; it contains excellent information.

 

[DudSpud]

In addition to his typical, ever insightful comments, Socialism responds to my suggestions :

DudSpud seems to advocate using Cloak of Shadows over using Mindblast; if I misunderstand, pardon - but some of the most superior crowd control in the game comes from using CoS and Mind Blast together. I play incredibly aggressively (read: ridiculously unsafe for hardcore - which I play exclusively) with no block and as much faster run/walk as I can get, speeding and scouting around, COS/MBing anything in my path, and repositioning/herding enemies for maximum trap laying efficiency -- and I've never had a death (due to this playstyle - lag / AFKing in gloam-infested WSK, yes).

You understood me correctly - I primarily use CoS and traps in the absence of MB, and this works for me. This is likely because I play a bit more cautiously than you, though when I unexpectedly get swamped, I whip out the MB - the two are incredibly powerful together. I guess this is merely a play style issue, though I really should use MB more - it's safer in HC, and likely quicker.

DudSpud

 

[humblegar]

I'm not an assa veteran, but I have made a few now, latest is ** or so in the ladder.

I think its nice to mention something many seem to leave out. With LS and DS you can take on most mobs as long as they are not LI and FI, or LI and with no corpses at all close by. Fireblast does not add a new damage type for a light trapper. I know 99% of you know this, but I can imagine the disappointment discovering that FB does not kill what your DS could not harm.

For the few situation where I need fireblast I will spam my mediocre fireblast helped by the merc and shadow, and regret my decisions of not maxing it

Another issue I have noticed is that MB and CoS will almost always add safety, but both can slow down killing and sometimes leave you in harms way.

- I always use CoS and MB as much as possible if I need to run through an area unharmed (keyruns/mf)
- If I see two groups, and one is LI, I may want to herd the LI group closer to other monsters/corpses before using DS and CoS. Using DS/CoS too early can leave the LI group unharmed just out of range of your DS.
- Using MB in tight areas can get you stuck waiting, using it (or the shadow's) during throne xp runs can hold up eight people's xp as you wait for a mob to convert back.
- I try to avoid using MB on LI for the same reasons, I don't want them converted when corpses are blown up.

Just some random thoughts.

 

[DudSpud]

- If I see two groups, and one is LI, I may want to herd the LI group closer to other monsters/corpses before using DS and CoS. Using DS/CoS too early can leave the LI group unharmed just out of range of your DS.

This is a very insightful comment for an "assa [non] veteran." I also find that mindlessly spamming CoS can be unhelpful, as it can only be cast once every 10 or more seconds, so you cannot quickly do a "do-over." It is a good idea to herd the bad guys if you can to get them in a line running after you, then CoS, then, when you LS/DS you can have the LS/DS bolts going in a line and hitting more than one monster at a time, as the bolts penetrate.

Just some random thoughts.

...and pretty helpful ones. IMHO.

DudSpud

 

[stephan]

I think its nice to mention something many seem to leave out. With LS and DS you can take on most mobs as long as they are not LI and FI, or LI and with no corpses at all close by. Fireblast does not add a new damage type for a light trapper. I know 99% of you know this, but I can imagine the disappointment discovering that FB does not kill what your DS could not harm.

The worth of FB is that it is a much more convenient way of eliminating LI's than luring them to leftover corpes. You just keep the pack still with CoS, and start dropping FB's on them.

The average FB damage of a FB/LS/DS build is equal to LS and together with the splash range it is certainly not something that should be frowned upon. It gives more shots to DS as well, which is nice since a regular trapper kills >90% of the monsters with DS anyway.

 

[Darkflight]

Fireblast is used to save time on herding ligthtning immunes towards corpses. It's a very powerful skill when used correctly and will make your life a lot easier while fighting Gloams especially. What else were you going to do with those skillpoints anyway?

 

[humblegar]

I don't think fireblast is a bad spell, but I think its fair to mention that it deals fire damage like DS, and it will delay your LS synergies maxing it first?

I'm not saying it sucks, I'm saying you will get your synergies late, and if you do spend points anywhere else you will be short. DS+LS+CBS+SW = 80 points. With maxed FB you are already at 100, even withouth counting fade, MB, CoS, BoS, Shadow Master, maybe 1 in weapon block a.s.o.

The extra shots for DS from FB are nice, but they don't add damage like the bolts for the CBS, they only save mana?

I can totally see a build with a low/medium FB getting stuck at or having to run through gloams for instance, and how good FB must be in those situations, but I still think its a tough choice.

 

[stephan]

I don't think fireblast is a bad spell, but I think its fair to mention that it deals fire damage like DS, and it will delay your LS synergies maxing it first?

LS with two synergies and a moderate amount of +skills (6-8) will do plenty of damage. You really don't need your synergies maxed.

A FB/LS/DS trapper will easily beat a pure lightning trapper (without infinity) in speed, simply because LIs are that much easier to deal with. Again, you only need LS and FB to make a corpse, the rest is done by DS.

 

[SirBeetle]

Fireblast is good, but more than a single point is a waste. After maxing Light sentry and all the synergies, I started putting my remaining points into Mind Blast (even a little more dmg is amazing in pvp). I've finished a lot of people with just Mind Blast

 

[malakho]

howdy everyone, just coming back to D2 due to new ladder and browsing forums, and got stuck on one post...

I don't think fireblast is a bad spell, but I think its fair to mention that it deals fire damage like DS, and it will delay your LS synergies maxing it first?

im assuming you meant Death sentry for DS, and based on that i was confused...doesnt death sentry do physical damage (corpse explosion) and light damage? last time i checked, this was the case and thus they do diff damage types and hence are the reason why most trappers use both