Looking for WW Sin advice

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Arbedark

Diabloii.Net Member
Looking for WW Sin advice

Ok, i came here looking for ww sin advice, and after reading all previous threads i could be bothered to find, discovered absolutely nothing, only people boasting about how their build is better than other people's.

So i came here for some facts.

First off, which claw is actually better for Chaos / Fury?
Runic Talons have the speed for trap laying, using a 120/160 res shield vs casters, and for kicking.
But Suwayyah's have more damage.
So which would be the best combination, Chaos/Chaos, Chaos/Fury, Chaos/Batucs, Chaos/Jade Talon, Chaos/Rare.
And which claws would be best for these to be in? 2 x Runic, 1 x Runic 1 x Feral Claws, 2 x Suwayyah's etc?

Ok, what armour, Bramble or Enigma, and WHY?

Shadowdancers, needed or not?

This is for a PvP ww sin that can hopefully kill any other character, with a switch of gear, and possible use of over resisting / absorbing.

Thanks in advance.


I'd like advice from the best ww sins on these forums please. And preferable backed up with solid facts :)

Arb
 

Zangeif

Diabloii.Net Member
Chaos/Fury is the way to go.

Feral claws/Runic Talons is best because trap laying speed is a MUST to compete against good casters.

Do not use a resist shield, it's easy to stack resists without a shield using Fade. Besides, if you use a shield you lose 60% block of th caster's attacks and your own attacks are cut in half.

Armor - ENIGMA there is no alternative.

Lastly, get 65 fcr.

I'm sure people will respond after me saying go with Bramble like they always do, so it's up to you who to listen to. However, every top assassin that wants to beat good casters uses Enigma.
 

Arbedark

Diabloii.Net Member
Ok, I can see about the feral/runic talons.

I know about the res, but it isnt too easy to stack res vs Cold sorcs, hence a 4 p saphire monarch, with 2 ravens and 1 x snowclash = untouchable. But thats just for bad mannered pubbies, which i'm hoping not to duel in, and i can see the advantage of blocking.

What about in a private league, where tele on non-sorc's is banned?
Would the str and run/walk from enigma overcome brambles added damage and fhr? Or are there any other alternatives?


Arb
 

Zangeif

Diabloii.Net Member
Against cold sorcs its still better to block 60% of their attacks than have the extra cold res. I guess if you really need res, go for a 3 socket claw with 30% cold res jewels (with second mod if ou can find) That way you get 90 res instead of 140 but you can still block their spells. The best would be a cruel/quickness cubed in 1.09 with 3os.

In a private league where tele on non-sorcs is banned - play a sorc :D

Or, if you still want to play a ww sin use Bramble, it's better then Enigma if you can't use teleport. However if tele is banned it lets you stack even more res against sorcs - 4 X Thul Jewlers armor of Whale.
 

turmania

Diabloii.Net Member
yeap. go for bramble... its not the added physical dmg that kills from enigma its the poison and open wounds...thats why a mage slayer build is not using ma skiller charms..

and for the record most elite ww'sins or kickers would prefer bramble or 3socket nats armor(socketed with perfect poison jewels)...

weapons choices are more of a problem, 2 ways to go.

1) chaos/fury
2)chaos/chaos

most duelers go for chaos/fury road. but i seen a lot more ppl lately started using chaos/chaos, and they are pretty good. suwayyah pr runic talons are the way to go. suwayyah chaos has more trade value. and fury runic talon as well. but it depends on your play style and so forth. in my case i went for chaos/chaos suwayyah road.
 

Zangeif

Diabloii.Net Member
Chaos Chaos Suwayyah is terrible, no one should pick that road.

Like I've been saying for months, NO top ww sin uses Bramble anymore unless he is built for sin vs sin. This forum is stuck in a time warp from the beginning of 1.1 when people first thought Bramble was a better choice.

Then everyone realized it sucks.

I bet you still poison facet your shako too? :thumbsup:
 

'22'Souljah

Diabloii.Net Member
turmania said:
yeap. go for bramble... its not the added physical dmg that kills from enigma its the poison and open wounds...thats why a mage slayer build is not using ma skiller charms..

and for the record most elite ww'sins or kickers would prefer bramble or 3socket nats armor(socketed with perfect poison jewels)...
how does enigma add physical damage?
what kind of pvp sin still uses ma skill charms at all?
and for the truth good anti caster sins use enigma over bramble
 

papercut

Diabloii.Net Member
No 'elite' wwsin uses bramble. Because when it comes down to it being able to catch and hit your opponent is what wins duels, while avoid taking damage yourself. Dragon flight alone just doesnt cut it. Plus with enigma you can take advantage of the nice minion stacking bug with your shadow master, and be able to maintain your(should be) 60%claw block all the time.
 

Leonhart

Diabloii.Net Member
weapon i recommand the suwayyah or scissors suwayyah, because of their high damage. And the rune word malice is very nice with its 100% ow mod. It will make opponent feel sad. I use the CM conbination.

I recommend enigma because the +frw mod is too important. And teleport is not unnecessary to assassin. Especially when you duel a pure foh din or casting character, immuning to element is important. And fade will replace burst of speed. At this time your speed is a problem. So you need enigma.

Shadow dancer is needed. Because you use df skills. And you are a ww sin. Then your shadow master mustn't be max. You need the 2 shadow dicsipline skills.

If you want to kill any kind of character, pure ww is immpossible. A hybrid sin is much more powerful. TRAP+WW+GA SIN is nice. And you need a switch of gear such as two raven, two carrion wind, two dwarf, two angle set, a rising sun, two wisps, a monarch with 4 perfect topaz or ruby in, snowclash belt, thunder belt, and a widowmaker in the other hand.

All the above is my suggestion from my own sin duel experience. Thanks.
 

papercut

Diabloii.Net Member
Pure wwsins owns. . only put 1 point in traps to use for stunning. Also unless you can wear shadow dancers with base stre, dont use them. Even then there are plenty of better ones. Try to get 30% frw ones with 3 resists. Heck just look up Koda's guide, and use what gear you can afford. You dont need perfect gear to be an effective killer.
 

Arbedark

Diabloii.Net Member
Okies.

Thanks for the advice guys, decided to listen to some of it, and ignore other parts, and we'll just have to see how my ww sin turns out.

Just one more question though.

Since using SD's are pretty much out of the question for insane str req, how would a pair of eth Sandstorms do?
Str + Vit, with r/w and very useful vs any other poison char.

Lemme know...

Arb
 

'22'Souljah

Diabloii.Net Member
Arbedark said:
Okies.

Thanks for the advice guys, decided to listen to some of it, and ignore other parts, and we'll just have to see how my ww sin turns out.

Just one more question though.

Since using SD's are pretty much out of the question for insane str req, how would a pair of eth Sandstorms do?
Str + Vit, with r/w and very useful vs any other poison char.

Lemme know...

Arb
it's probably the best boot you can use vs a poison character
eth sandstorms are also good when you don't need reisist
but when you do need reisist the rare boots with insane reisist is better
 

Blade

Diabloii.Net Member
I've played d2 for quite a long time. I personally believe that hybrids are more versitile then one-type build characters. Although i don't play anymore and I sometimes visit these forums. My old hybrid:

kill Placement:

Max venom
Max WOF Synergies
1 Point into LS Synergies
Remaining points into Claw Mastery
1point into the rest of Shadow skill tree
1point into blade shield(also attainable from your claws)

Stat Placement:

All Vital.

Items:

Helm:
- 2+skills/20% FCR circlet with the best mods it can offer w/ ber or any rune/jewel you prefer


Amulet:
- Maras

Armour:
- Breast plate enigma

Boots:
- Rare tri-resist/dual stat/fhr boots

Gloves:
- Magefist/trangs

Belt:
- Arachind mesh

Rings:
- 1x Raven + 10% FCR ring with dual stats/ar/resist

Weapons:
- Chaos/Bartucs with UM.
- Cta/Lidless

Charms:
Anni Charm + 10 x trap charms (preferably with +life/FHR)

Overall stats:
- 3k+ life w/ BO
- 70% FCR
- Decent ww/psn dmg
- 1k wof dmg.
- 1k~LS dmg (May be low damage but still capable of hurting people)

With the right player and the right tactics - you can basically kill anything.

ps. I choose WOF over LS since it allows better distribution and most players don't expect WOF, stunning is much easier and more challenging.
 

BlckShDwDraGoN

Diabloii.Net Member
Zangeif said:
Chaos Chaos Suwayyah is terrible, no one should pick that road.

Like I've been saying for months, NO top ww sin uses Bramble anymore unless he is built for sin vs sin. This forum is stuck in a time warp from the beginning of 1.1 when people first thought Bramble was a better choice.

Then everyone realized it sucks.

I bet you still poison facet your shako too? :thumbsup:
Wow, your very opinionated and yet you have no evidence to back it up. Chaos /Chaos destroys faster than letting Fury/Chaos I dont need to be a pansy and let an opponents life drain I go straight for the throat.

Bramble is the choice of the old. Have you played 09 hybrid sin? I doubt it; I had the privillege of beating ppl like q-siink, slade. etc i could go on listing ppl and talking like john kerry or i can just say flat out highly skilled players will use bramble and slit your throat and castrate you if you come near me.

papercut said:
No 'elite' wwsin uses bramble. Because when it comes down to it being able to catch and hit your opponent is what wins duels, while avoid taking damage yourself. Dragon flight alone just doesnt cut it. Plus with enigma you can take advantage of the nice minion stacking bug with your shadow master, and be able to maintain your(should be) 60%claw block all the time.
Read above.

Leonhart said:
weapon i recommand the suwayyah or scissors suwayyah, because of their high damage. And the rune word malice is very nice with its 100% ow mod. It will make opponent feel sad. I use the CM conbination.

I recommend enigma because the +frw mod is too important. And teleport is not unnecessary to assassin. Especially when you duel a pure foh din or casting character, immuning to element is important. And fade will replace burst of speed. At this time your speed is a problem. So you need enigma.

Shadow dancer is needed. Because you use df skills. And you are a ww sin. Then your shadow master mustn't be max. You need the 2 shadow dicsipline skills.

If you want to kill any kind of character, pure ww is immpossible. A hybrid sin is much more powerful. TRAP+WW+GA SIN is nice. And you need a switch of gear such as two raven, two carrion wind, two dwarf, two angle set, a rising sun, two wisps, a monarch with 4 perfect topaz or ruby in, snowclash belt, thunder belt, and a widowmaker in the other hand.

All the above is my suggestion from my own sin duel experience. Thanks.
WDF, any caster I make will shred you to kibbles n bitz... and you need to pay attention in english. Fury mods > Malice mods, if you can afford fury get one. Shadow Dancers are superfluous the +2 skills adds a miniscule amount to venom, cm, and sm is HEAVYLY out-weighted by its benefits where as water walks bonus prove superior to SD's. Pure WW is possible its just to complex for you to handle... yup you and your 2 carrion winds are too simple </end sarcasm>

to the thread maker, all of your questions are dependant upon your own playing style. Are you offensive or defensive most of the time? do you like to chase everyone? or wanna go for the kill no matter what?
 

TheKing

Diabloii.Net Member
enigma -> offensive wwsin
bramble -> defensive wwsin

dual chaos is nice(if you don`t have fury)... nice magic dmg, more ed, +1ww... the only - is the trap placing(12 fpa)
 

Arbedark

Diabloii.Net Member
Hmmm, in response to people who put single line posts which are just more wordy versions of:

"Bramble is 4 naps, eni pwnz!11!!one!!1"

Or the reverse, could you please show FACTS to back up this advice, and could this please not turn into a vendetta between Bramble and Enigma users. Thanks in advance.

Thanks to all the people who actually gave advice and backed it up with their own experiences.

In answer to BlckShdwDragon, i am thinking that Chaos / Chaos would be better for me now, since i can just never be bothered to let OW do it's job.

Does anyone know whether 2 x Chaos Runix would get a decent trap laying speed?

Or Chaos Runix and Chaos Feral would be better?


Arb
 

turmania

Diabloii.Net Member
Arbedark said:
Hmmm, in response to people who put single line posts which are just more wordy versions of:

"Bramble is 4 naps, eni pwnz!11!!one!!1"

Or the reverse, could you please show FACTS to back up this advice, and could this please not turn into a vendetta between Bramble and Enigma users. Thanks in advance.

Thanks to all the people who actually gave advice and backed it up with their own experiences.

In answer to BlckShdwDragon, i am thinking that Chaos / Chaos would be better for me now, since i can just never be bothered to let OW do it's job.

Does anyone know whether 2 x Chaos Runix would get a decent trap laying speed?

Or Chaos Runix and Chaos Feral would be better?


Arb
LOL, you would only see bramble vs enigma on an assassin forum, but I do agree that this is becoming more like a childish debate... both armors are good, I would go for a good bramble. but this depends on your play style, how you move how you do certain actions at certain time and how well you can use dragon flight.

the important thing is that you have to know a ww'sin is the little sister of it's barb version. you will have less life, less physical dmg and less ar. to compensate that you have to use 'side skills', like open wounds but a barb has that too, along with crushing blow and deadly strike. so your most usefull companion here is 'venom'. and to some extent trap tree if you can fine tune your skills.

shadow dancers are good, only problem is its very high strenght requirements, +2 to shadow skills is helpfull but its not the must, what it has is the fhr bonus along with the 25 dex bonus. these are the two mods that a ww'sin really needs... boot choices can differ you can even wear upped or normal gores even unique items like sandstorms,waterwalks really depends on your fine tuning. my friend made a ww'sin almost the same duplicate as ww barb, using highlords,upped goreriders,CoA only exception he used trangs gloves and perfect 50% bramble, and decided to use 2x chaos... this build triggers a lot of open wounds,physical dmg and poison. I'm trying to do a new ww'sin just like his, but i want more side help as in from traps so i'm as well trying to max at least 2 trap skills, either wof and one of its synergies or lighning sentry and death sentry...
 
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