LLD: Nightmare (TS, DF Assassin)


Diabloii.Net Member
LLD: Nightmare (TS, DF Assassin)

The Paladin runs out of the rogue encampment awaiting his opponent. He sees her leave the camp, but then loses sight of her, and suddenly cannot move. Stunned, he can only stand helpless and is struck down, and in one mighty blow, lays dead on the ground.

This is what will be an outcome of the next character I make for LLD (Low Level Dueling). LLD is for players usually anywhere around from 9-50 or lower. For the purpose of this, I will be going up to level 46.

A Nightmare Assassin will be able to take down pretty much any enemy, it will use a variety of skills to do this, however they aren't neccesary, but it makes it more interesting.

Skill Point Distribution​

So here's the skill point setup, you don't have to follow this by the letter.

Total Skill points up to level 45 (including Skill point + quests): 48

Max out Tiger Strike (level 19, and act 1 and 2 skill point quests)

Dragon Talon, Claw, Tail, and Flight (this will bring you to lvl 22 and use your izual points)

Max out Dragon Flight (This will bring you to level 41 I believe).

Psychic Hammer, Cloak of Shadows, Mind Blast, Claw Mastery, and Burst of Speed (This will bring you to 46).

You can end on 45 if you'd like, but Burst of Speed is nice to have.


The best part of this build is that you can use cheap items and still be effective, hell you could put on a normal pair of wyrmhide boots and nothing else and be fine as long as you get the first hit each time.

I'll go over what the rich, middle class, and poor can use:


Helmet: Probably a rare circlet or coronet that adds to assassin skills.
Armor: Duriel's Shell would be great.
Weapons: Add to Assassin Skills.
Gloves: + Martial Arts skills.
Belt: It really doesn't matter, try for resists.
Boots: Wyrmhide. They're the best boots for damage at this level. Rare would be great, expecially + resist and FWR.
Rings and Amulets: + to assassin skills and resists.

I will complete this later.


Diabloii.Net Member
Sorry, these forums are kind of messed up, I didn't post within the time limit so you can't edit it? What the heck? That's something that should be changed, I had to shut it off due to lightning... Blargh double post, oh well.


For you people that have a few characters with some decent to a few really good items, but still aren't rich.

Helmet: Same as above in Rich section.
Armor: The Spirit Shroud is good. +1 to all, can't be frozen, and high defense.
Weapons: Same as above in Rich, or + to martial arts.
Gloves: Same as above in Rich, or resist and defense based.
Belt: Aim for Resists in this one.
Boots: Try to get a Wyrmhide. If you can't get a rare one, go for magical FW/R.
Rings and Amulets: + Assassin skills shouldn't be terribly difficult to get on an ammy, and the rings I guess can be + Resists.


Just starting, lost all your stuff, or just plain bad luck at getting items? Here you are.

Helmet: Aim for defense or resists.
Armor: Aim for Defense or Resists.
Weapons: + Martial Arts katar, or one that adds to tiger strike or perhaps dragon flight, but that's much more difficult.
Gloves: Def and Resist again.
Belt: Def and Resist.
Boots: Wyrmhide should not be difficult to get still, you could start a game on bnet asking for one for free if you need to, or better yet, if you have a stronger character have him kill some monsters until you find one in hell act 1 or late NM.
Rings and Amulet: Resists again, or stat boosting. Maybe + Martial Arts on Ammy.

Why should I make this?​

Here's the reasons why you should make a Nightmaresin:

- Very Cheap, get a good pair of boots and your on your way in PVP. Note that by good pair, I mean higher level. It doesn't matter if they're unique or not, a pair of heavy boots will do less than chain, which do less than light plated, which do less than greaves. It works the same way with exceptional boots and elite. A unique pair of Wyrmhides (there is none I don't think, but just for this purpose) will do the same damage as a normal wyrmhides.

- It seems like a difficult character to make, doesn't it? Just look at the Stat point distribution. It's very hard to depend on one skill for the first 19 levels.

- It becomes (keep it mind my character is not yet complete) quite possibly the strongest LLD build.

- Even without Tiger Strike charges, it can do a MASSIVE amount of damage.

How much is a MASSIVE amount?​

Well the test assassin right now was doing a minimum of 850 damage without a single charge and about 2400 AR. That's a very good amount of damage, Fire Sorcs for example do about the same at that level with fire ball, and their attack is resistable. For LLD, resisting physical damage is usually not an option.

With full charges she did 2700 - 4000. Keep in mind this is one hit, at level 45 using a normal pair of wyrmhide boots, the stats and skill points above, and the equipment in the middle class. You could possibly do about 3000 - 4500 or something larger like that if you were rich.

This is great for mages, and still works against melee characters as well, dependant on their health and blocking (stupid barb, shields aren't for noobs) without even needing a charge.

PVP Tactics​

I'm not going to tell you exactly what to do in each situation, I'm sure you can figure it out yourself. However I will give some tips on the enemies as I see as a potential threat.

FOH Pallys - Aren't they the worst? If you don't have good lightning resist, you'll be zapped before you hit them in some cases. You may want to level up a few more levels to learn shadow warrior, cast it, and set mind blast so they stun him, then you make your move.

BoneMancers - The "King of PVP", I don't really see why. If you're fast enough you shouldn't have too much trouble. Keep them stunned.

Sorceresses - Each type has their own strengths, but they usually all have teleport in common. Run like hell and try to stun and blind them before you get killed, then make your move.

Trapsins - These guys are too annoying. High Lightning resist is a must. Try to suprise them, they'll be using the same tactics as you, but still one good hit should finish em off.

WWBarb - If you are hit, the chances of living are very bad. Luckily, they're usually slow so you should be able to get a good hit. In some cases, charges are neccesary due to the higher HP.

Bowazons - Speed is the most important factor, if they hit you it could be all over, luckily they're stuck in place when firing, so mind blast is not neccesary most of the time.

Edits made to the top, that couldn't be done, so they're here now​

A Nightmare Assassin will be able to take down pretty much any enemy, it will use a variety of skills to do this, however they aren't neccesary, but it makes it more interesting. It is designed to be a character that will be difficult to level up at times, but then will become quite possibly the strongest character for low level dueling.

If you want a kill everything that moves in hell difficulty character, this is not it. It's best for one on one battles, so leveling may be difficult. It is not intended to be used past normal difficulty since LLD usually happens in normal, don't you think?

Stat Point Distribution​

You will have 225 or 230 stat points I believe, so here's what you want your base stats to be:

Strength - 100
Dexterity - 85
Vitality - 100
Energy - don't add any.


I have mentioned this several times already, but why not. This is a work in progress, this has not been officially deemed the best LLD character, I have not gotten my assassin to the end of this build, this is just what the math and tests have gotten me to believe. However I am quite sure that the damage figures and everything else will work in this guide, and that is what this is, a guide. It's not exactly that fun to go word by word. Skill distribution is kind of contrary to that, but that's what I see to work best, not exactly what you should do.

I will later update this to tell of how it worked for me. And of course what characters a Nightmaresin is good at killing, and which ones it gets whacked by easiest. I hope you enjoyed this, feedback is welcome.


Diabloii.Net Member
What realm do you have this sin on? Honestly, it doesn't sound all that amazing for a lv46.

It is also no longer in LLD limits. Most people go to lv30 for lld, 35-37ish for pubs.
This is a MLD character, and my honest opinion is that it cannot compete with them.

If this is on USWest Ladder or non ladder, I'd like to see it, I have a couple MLD builds myself.

Generator Of Chaos

Diabloii.Net Member
ok..1st thing, you're NOT lld... Lld is from 9 to 30... Over lvl 30 you're mld...

2nd - Maxing D.F? what the hell?..lol
3rd - my lld kickersin (lvl 30) pulls up to 650 dmg per kick, multiplied by 4 kicks, with no kind of charges...
4th - you meantioned 4K dmg CHARGED, then said it was in 1 strike... Hope you know that charging on monsters during a duel is bm, and lame...so, if you mean charge on your oponent, that's 4 blows If I'm correct...3 to charge, and 1 to deliver... So, not that impressive anymore...
5th - I got the felling you'll be literaly eaten alive by mlders...
6th - As far as gear goes, your choice of "rich" gear is kinda poor...

Sorry, the idea was good, but you failed..:\


Diabloii.Net Member
im a 29 Kicker myself
5 kicks 919 life/7.5k ar its 280-480 dmg

i have slvl 6TS and the ed% does help alot (3 charges makes 1300dmg possible)

however the only viable way to use TS charges with kick is to get lucky and have them last for multiple Dragon talons attacks (this does happen if the first kick misses/is blocked) there VERY difficult to charge up on player with decent def or uniteruptible skills (WW,zeal,jab,Dragon talonetc..)

[~!anything 42+ In no way could be called lld bc of the +skill GC's!~] sorry.

could u be more specific in the skill placement?
XXXX = 1
XXXY = 1
XXXZ = 20

could u mention the tactics?
is this a trap then Mindblast,, then TS and then run and DF?

i cant quite see how this build works


Diabloii.Net Site Pal
The build is not a bad idea, however, it needs some serious work, and I think your expectations are too high. (By work, I mean, find a new level range, maybe 30's, and work on gear and skills)

I've made a somewhat similar build (level 45, basically a TS sin with dragon flight, though maxing DF is useless on either build...) and put simply, it failed. I play hardcore, and the only thing going for it was that it didnt die... I took her gear off after a couple duels. She got one ear, a charger who I hit before he hit me...

All in all, the damage is too low, no matter how you look at it, and shes too fragile to be a real succesful melee character as a MLDer. Whirlers, zerkers, concers, smiters, zealots, WW's, werebears, basically ANY melee build will beat it. Its DF ability gives her an advantage over most casters (other than, of course, sorcs).

I'd say DF assassins are a very viable build... when specalized to kill casters. Try to make one to beat melee builds, and you're in for a surprise...



Diabloii.Net Member
1) No one's innocent
2) *zerks with cruel legend of quick*
3) If you were to go off and pk with it, it might work out well...Dueling...not so much.


Diabloii.Net Member
If you want an interesting MLD build, I built a dragon claw asn lvl 45 who was quite good for her lvl and class, never lost a duel to another asn in my lvl range if that means anything.

The build was relatively simple for a dueler to figure out, i'm not the "guide-type" person so I wont post a guide but i'll give a general idea of what it was.

Helm - Gaze (two claws and claw block only going 50% DR is necessary vs melee)
Armor - Shaft (once again with DR however this was an .09 build that i carried over with me so i'm sure if someone wanted to use something else it might be better might not)
Belt - Tgods
Rings - Ravens
Ammy - +3 MA/str IIRC (might have been +3 shadow)
Gloves - +MA/20% ias
Boots - Waterwalks
Claws - Eth Tucs / cruel scissor quhab of amp (key item)

The build was relatively sturdy with capped claw block and a fair amount of DR. Mind you I wouldnt let someone repeatedly whirl me. Nor did I run into many zealots in that level range.

Skills went

Dragon claw
Claw Mastery
Claw Block
pt in DF
pt in MB
prebuffed BoS with +3 claws and a +3 circlet
The rest went into shadow master (very handy little thing to have when landing a DF to get close to have your master give a little punch as well)

had a few pts into tiger strike but rarely used it.

The essentials of the build are using your speed as an assassin, and your technique as a dueler to co-ordinate mindblast/dragon flight and dragon claw in order to avoid being hit and to land as many hits as possible.

The benefits to it is that dragon claw is uninteruptable (often overlooked), if and when that amp goes off you are very very dangerous, as well with BoS and Dragon Claw it is hard for opponents to "run-off" the amp as you can catch them with ease, claw block blocks magically attacks ie BS and hammers, and the shadow adds an alternative source of dammage.

Drawbacks are of course the lack of a shield, no BO or Oak so life is a little low, however I think i was hovering around 1.5k which wasnt too bad for a 45 asn. The dmg is not overwhelming until amp goes off, which may take longer then you're willing to wait. There is no resistance to this build unless you're willing to change gear and/or use fade instead of BoS. However Speed is your weapon so sacrificing BoS is very costly.

I'm not saying use this build and you'll "pwn" all. I'm just saying if you want a melee asn in the MLD range, this is a build that I put together (didnt read any guides so I dont know if there are any. I'm sure there is probably one) that is definately not cookie cutter, definately can bring in an ear, and definately requires some sort of skill, or knowledge of technique.



Diabloii.Net Member
Sorry but 4k max damage fully charged is not good, thats an average of 1k damage per hit.

My lvl 24 zealot does 1.6k max per hit and attacks at 5 frames (without that great gear) which is probably faster than you will and thats at half your level :uhhuh:.


Diabloii.Net Member
Is there any guides out there for a lld 9-30 Kicker? If so can some one link it or post it?


Diabloii.Net Member
AzaZaz said:
The benefits to it is that dragon claw is uninteruptable (often overlooked)
Unless I'm mistaken, it's interruptable in 1.10 - it wasn't in 1.09 when you built that char.