LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Fabian

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Quite simple frozzen. Ber + Sur + Sur + Ohm + Ohm + Vex + Gul + Gul = 38 Vex in 65536 runs, or 65536/6/38 = 287 runs to average 1 Vex. With 25 second runs, that's pretty much exactly 2 hours, with 30 second runs it's 2 hours 24 minutes.

For comparison, my "old" Trav barb (haven't played with the newest equipment yet) averaged a Vex every 1 hour 26 minutes or so when I focused (47 second runs, 55% hork on p3 if you want to check the spreadsheet yourself). 1½ hours I think was definitely reasonable for him long term.
 

Drystan

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Code:
Rune  /pX Item#1              Item#2              Item#3              Item#4              Poster
Io
-

Lum
      5   Heavy Gloves                                                                    zerth
      8   Battle Axe          Field Plate                                                 jjscud
 
Ko        
-

Fal
      8   Bramble Mitts       Colossus Voulge     Hand Scythe         + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Crossbow            Wire Fleece                                                 Post #140
      8   El Rune             Studded Leather     War Axe                                 Post #140
      8   Grand Charm         Ring                                                        Post #140
      8   Greaves             Light Crossbow      Long Bow            + 3 more            Post #140
 
Lem
      5   Balrog Blade                                                                    frozzzen
      5   Wyrmhide Boots      Cestus              Bone Shield                             zerth
      5   Belt                Elegant Blade       Lion Helm           + 2 more(?)         zerth
      5   Flail               Studded Leather     Short Sword         + 3 more            Drystan
      8   Battle Axe          Broad Sword         Burnt Wand          + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Bearded Axe         Bone Helm           Flying Knife        + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Bone Wand           El Rune             Mesh Belt           + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Breast Plate        Casque              Composite Bow                           Post #140
      8   Demonhide Boots     Grand Scepter       Heater              + 2 more            Post #140
 
Pul
      5   Maul                Ring                Spiked Shield                           Darkoooo
      8   Amulet              Heavy Gloves        Hydra Edge          Ring                Post #140
      8   Bill                Bone Shield         Brandistock x 2     + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Blade               Tyrant Club                                                 Post #140
      8   Ornate Plate        War Axe                                                     Post #140
 
Um
      8   Ancient Sword       Battle Staff        Casque              + 5 more            Post #140
 
Mal
      5   Grand Crown                                                                     Kimppi
      8   Bone Knife          Flail               Great Helm          + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Spiculum                                                                        Post #140

Ist
- 
 
Gul
      5   Elegant Blade                                                                   Kimppi
      5   Ogre Axe                                                                        smilts
 
Vex
      5   Crystal Sword       Death Mask                                                  Kimppi
      8   Flanged Mace        Heavy Belt          Heavy Crossbow      Suwayyah            Post #140
 
Ohm
      5   Full Helm                                                                       Smips
      8   Amn Rune            Falcata             Shako               War Javelin         Post #140

Lo
-
 
Sur
     5    Mace                Mithril Point       Nef Rune            + 3 more            Kimppi
     5    Ogre Maul           2x Gothic Plate     Wrist Sword         + 2 more            Smips

Ber
-
/Pl5 Lem pattern not (as far as I could tell) in JJ's findings.

What's with the "Post #140?" There's only 102 posts in this thread.
 

In the name of Zod

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

I'll leave the exact patterns for another day but here is what I know (and the number of simulated chest pops to get that info).

LK P1 - Sur, Ohm, Vex, Ist (139K)
LK P3 - Sur, Sur, Lo, Vex (277K)
LK P5 - Ber, Sur, Sur, Ohm, Ohm, Vex, Gul, Gul (181K)
LK P7 - Ohm, Vex (206K)
RoF P1 - Vex, Vex (33K*)
RoF P3 - Jah, Ber, Lo, Ohm, Vex (195K)
RoF P5 - Ohm, Vex, Ist (149K)
RoF P7 - Jah, Lo, Gul, Gul, Ist (197K)
A5 P1 - Jah, Vex, Vex, Ist, Ist (33K*)
A5 P3 - Sur, Lo, Gul, Ist (58K*)
A5 P5 - Cham, Sur, Lo, Vex, Vex, Vex, Vex, Vex, Gul, Ist (103K*)
A5 P7 - Jah, Ber, Sur, Sur, Ohm, Vex, Gul (144K*)

* These are currently being simulated.

If you want to know the patterns, look here: ftp://ftp.makaucorp.com/temp/.
That's certainly very impressive. :nod: Thank you for sharing this information jjscud. Presume these are superchests only, no sparkies. Thanks again!

P.S. You're awesome.


 

mattinm

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

I really wish this information would have been kept quiet, but I understand why you released it jjscud. I am also glad to see that you've outlined your methods clearly, and not cryptically as with your RoF results.

However, I must say that I don't approve of these results. I understand that the botting was done for research, and that nothing was kept from them, but providing information retrieved by a bot is ethically ambiguous to me. I for one wouldn't bot, even for research, and I feel that reading information retrieved from a bot is tantamount to botting myself, which I'm not comfortable with.

There isn't really anything I can do to avoid the results, either. Again, I understand that the results are in good nature, but I cannot agree with the methods, and therefore feel conflicted about the results. On one hand, I'm glad that I know precisely what to run, and on the other, I'm disappointed that I cannot contribute to the finding of patterns.

It's not my place to say what can and cannot be done on the forum, but I just wanted to express my disappointment with the methods used to find these results. I appreciate your intentions (especially your reluctance to release the results, but also the effort it takes to do these simulations), but I'm just not comfortable with it. It'll still be exciting when/if I find a Ber, but it just won't be the same.
 

jjscud

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

I'm sorry you feel that way but you are seriously fooling yourself if you think much of the know d2 mechanics came about through SPF acceptable means. There are just too many variables in D2. You would be hard pressed to find a game mechanic that can be isolated and understood properly without modding the game.

Deal with it how you want but pretty much everyone here in the SPF uses knowledge each time the play D2 that way gained through non-legit means.
 

Smips

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

I'm curious, where are the Act 5 Chests located? I remember them being pointless to run in 1.12a, so I never looked into it. Perhaps if I'm feeling insane, I'd run them too. :D
 

Rhone

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Yeah, it's one thing to play legitly, but once you start looking up information about a PC game through forums, FAQs, etc., there's a good chance that you're exposing yourself to some information that was gathered through means other normal legit play.
 

bassen

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

jjscud might have used non-legit methods to gather this information but since he doesn't save anything except the information about patterns, who are we to judge him? He doesn't let the test subjects come in touch with his actual playing which means he still as pure as any other on this forum.

Also notice the amount presented above reaches over 1.7 million runs, who can present those results in a legit way? I'd guess none.

I understand this might take away a little "discovery"-feelings for some people but in the end I think most of us are happy because they don't have to do several thousands of runs without knowing if they will be able to find. jjscud has filled that able for us.

If you don't like the information, you don't have to practice it, right?

Also I'd like to say a big thanks to jjscud for sharing this to the SPF even tho he prefered not to. Your information let us compare it to Cow-runs and Travincial in the newest verison of Diablo.
 

skiffcz

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

mattin: breakpoints, bugs, LCS mechanics, skill mechanics, summonlings stats, monster ai ... all this was tested ingame in artificially created scenarios and seriously - couldnt have been tested by any other "reality checked" method. People trying to get the info from checking the code itself realized that is such big mess where everything touches everything and not even the original programmers know wth is happening inside. Its quid pro quo.

Fabian: Also, lot of people asked jj to keep it secret. What about them? Maareek also expressed the rest of my thoughts much better than me.

Anyways, the info is out for anyone to take now, and even though I personaly feel a bit bitter about it, it doesnt really change much I guess.

SO what it stays is: GL all runners and may your drops be all orange :D (and may your brains stays unexploded) ;)

p.s. And ofcourse, thanks jjscud for having the balls required for such project ;)
 

Fabian

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

I don't understand your question skiffcz. Yes, some people felt differently than I did. What about it?
 

Darkflight

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Is there any math geeks out there who are capable of calculating the odds of there beeing no Zod rune drop from Act 5 chests? :scratchchin:
 

Jcakes

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Thanks very much for all your hard work to determine the paterns JJ. I understand your reluctance to release the results, I also understand why people wanted the results released (so they can compare LK to running areas). I think once you anounced that you knew the patterns you were stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I personally agree that the SPF is getting too rich and a reset would be good (but then again I have basically no items and I can understand other peoples reluctance to loose all their hard earned goodies) and this is why I plan to restart when 1.13 is live and play on the SPF ladder.
 

maareek

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Is there any math geeks out there who are capable of calculating the odds of there beeing no Zod rune drop from Act 5 chests? :scratchchin:
There is no mathematical way to eliminate a item from the list of possible drops without testing, assuming the drop itself is possible (ie, it's very easy to eliminate Zod as a drop from special chests anywhere but act 5 hell because Zod is not an allowed drop from objects there).

If the Act 5 special chests are coded the way the ones in earlier acts are (which I'm assuming they are since jjscud is testing them), then the only way to prove a Zod is part of the truncated seed is by testing. I'd definitely expect normal chests to have a Zod drop among their ~4 billion (iirc) possible drops, but the ~65k possible drops of the truncated seed special chests would be a crapshoot. I don't know enough about sparkly chests to make a guess, but I assume they work like regular chests with better odds on non-junk items - ie, no truncated seed).

To maybe make that a little more understandable: if Zod drops from act 5 special chests, it would have the same odds as a Ber from LK (roughly 1 in every 65k chest pops) while if it doesn't (which, of course, can't be proven; it can only be shown to be increasingly unlikely with more testing) then the odds are (however many permutations end up as a Zod [lets say 4, for illustrative purposes]) in (however many permutations total [which is, iirc, roughly 4 billion]). Keep in mind, this is with 1.13 Zod odds; 1.12 Zod is 4x rarer (ie, if 1.13 Zod has a 1 in 1 billion chance of dropping [which it would in my example] from an act 5 object, a 1.12 Zod would have a 1 in 4 billion chance) than its 1.13 instance. I don't know exact odds, so there may be multiple Zod drops in 1.12 (meaning there'd be even more in 1.13) but regardless of the exact numbers, the example gets one thing across: the odds of a Zod dropping from a non-special chest in act 5 are horrendously low (not that this should be a shock).

Even if there is a Zod drop in the truncated seed for act 5 special chests, it's *highly* unlikely that it's an efficient spending of time to get it, even if your goal is a Zod. AFAIK, there are no grouped special chests in Act 5. They aren't static. And you'll have to deal with some serious baddies to get to them, in some cases. If one is found to drop from those chests, though, it would be, without a doubt, the best odds from a target to get an uncubed Zod.

That's a little bit clunky, but I think that's a decent enough explanation.


 

jjscud

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

I'd definitely expect normal chests to have a Zod drop among their ~4 billion (iirc) possible drops,
All chests have a truncated seed but sparkly chests have a special drop function that does not use the truncated seed (probably quest chests too ... I guess I'll have to look into that next week). Not only do normal chests have a truncated seed, but they use the same function as the special chests, just not as many drop cycles. This means that chest drops are a subset of special chest drops, i.e. there's no point checking normal chest patterns once if you are not happy with the special chest patterns.


I don't know exact odds, so there may be multiple Zod drops in 1.12
I've actually done all this before and can say with 98% confidence (actual statistics, not a wild guess) that there is no Zod from special chests in 1.12.

They aren't static. And you'll have to deal with some serious baddies to get to them, in some cases. If one is found to drop from those chests, though, it would be, without a doubt, the best odds from a target to get an uncubed Zod.
They are actually static, at least as static as any others. But yes, the problem persists that there are no grouped special chests in act 5. The two I have used the most are the one in Frigid Highlands and the one in the Halls of Pain.

The tricky thing with act 5 special chests is there the same graphic is used for sparkly chests and special chests. The only way to tell the difference is to pop them a hundred times or so and see only blues and rares.



 

LongingForDeath

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Code:
Rune  /pX Item#1              Item#2              Item#3              Item#4              Poster
Io
-

Lum
      5   Heavy Gloves                                                                    zerth
      8   Battle Axe          Field Plate                                                 jjscud
 
Ko        
-

Fal
      8   Bramble Mitts       Colossus Voulge     Hand Scythe         + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Crossbow            Wire Fleece                                                 Post #140
      8   El Rune             Studded Leather     War Axe                                 Post #140
      8   Grand Charm         Ring                                                        Post #140
      8   Greaves             Light Crossbow      Long Bow            + 3 more            Post #140
 
Lem
      5   Balrog Blade                                                                    frozzzen
      5   Wyrmhide Boots      Cestus              Bone Shield                             zerth
      5   Belt                Elegant Blade       Lion Helm           + 2 more(?)         zerth
      5   Flail               Studded Leather     Short Sword         + 3 more            Drystan
      8   Battle Axe          Broad Sword         Burnt Wand          + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Bearded Axe         Bone Helm           Flying Knife        + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Bone Wand           El Rune             Mesh Belt           + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Breast Plate        Casque              Composite Bow                           Post #140
      8   Demonhide Boots     Grand Scepter       Heater              + 2 more            Post #140
 
Pul
      5   Maul                Ring                Spiked Shield                           Darkoooo
      8   Amulet              Heavy Gloves        Hydra Edge          Ring                Post #140
      8   Bill                Bone Shield         Brandistock x 2     + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Blade               Tyrant Club                                                 Post #140
      8   Ornate Plate        War Axe                                                     Post #140
 
Um
      8   Ancient Sword       Battle Staff        Casque              + 5 more            Post #140
 
Mal
      5   Grand Crown                                                                     Kimppi
      8   Bone Knife          Flail               Great Helm          + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Spiculum                                                                        Post #140

Ist
- 
 
Gul
      5   Elegant Blade                                                                   Kimppi
      5   Ogre Axe                                                                        smilts
 
Vex
      5   Crystal Sword       Death Mask                                                  Kimppi
      8   Flanged Mace        Heavy Belt          Heavy Crossbow      Suwayyah            Post #140
 
Ohm
      5   Full Helm                                                                       Smips
      8   Amn Rune            Falcata             Shako               War Javelin         Post #140

Lo
-
 
Sur
     5    Mace                Mithril Point       Nef Rune            + 3 more            Kimppi
     5    Ogre Maul           2x Gothic Plate     Wrist Sword         + 2 more            Smips

Ber
     5    Cedar Bow           Sharkskin Belt      Greaves                                 LongingForDeath
First of all, I'd like to thank jjscud for deciding to share his info with the rest of the community after all :thumbup:. If I hadn't known what can actually drop, I would've kept my LK runner in 1.12.

Secondly, in case anyone is interested in the actual patterns and doesn't understand the log files that jjscud posted earlier, I added the Ber pattern for p5. I hope I didn't miss any other item, as quite a lot of gold, scrolls and bolts dropped out of the chest along with the Ber.

Screenshot
 

skiffcz

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Question: are chests in sewers level 2 also superchests? They certainly drop like that, but thay may be "the other" type as well afaik. Or are they mixed?
 

Corrupted

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Question: are chests in sewers level 2 also superchests? They certainly drop like that, but thay may be "the other" type as well afaik. Or are they mixed?
a) They don't sparkle
b) They drop the exact same patterns as the other act 3 special chests

Enough of an answer? :smug:



 

Kefka

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

congrats on the bers, the patterns look easy...comparitively speaking.
 

Kefka

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Code:
Rune  /pX Item#1              Item#2              Item#3              Item#4              Poster
Io
-

Lum
      5   Heavy Gloves                                                                    zerth
      8   Battle Axe          Field Plate                                                 jjscud
 
Ko        
-

Fal
      5   Maiden javelin      Double Bow
      8   Bramble Mitts       Colossus Voulge     Hand Scythe         + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Crossbow            Wire Fleece                                                 Post #140
      8   El Rune             Studded Leather     War Axe                                 Post #140
      8   Grand Charm         Ring                                                        Post #140
      8   Greaves             Light Crossbow      Long Bow            + 3 more            Post #140
 
Lem
      5   Balrog Blade                                                                    frozzzen
      5   Wyrmhide Boots      Cestus              Bone Shield                             zerth
      5   Belt                Elegant Blade       Lion Helm           + 2 more(?)         zerth
      5   Flail               Studded Leather     Short Sword         + 3 more            Drystan
      8   Battle Axe          Broad Sword         Burnt Wand          + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Bearded Axe         Bone Helm           Flying Knife        + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Bone Wand           El Rune             Mesh Belt           + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Breast Plate        Casque              Composite Bow                           Post #140
      8   Demonhide Boots     Grand Scepter       Heater              + 2 more            Post #140
 
Pul
      5   Maul                Ring                Spiked Shield                           Darkoooo
      8   Amulet              Heavy Gloves        Hydra Edge          Ring                Post #140
      8   Bill                Bone Shield         Brandistock x 2     + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Blade               Tyrant Club                                                 Post #140
      8   Ornate Plate        War Axe                                                     Post #140
 
Um
      8   Ancient Sword       Battle Staff        Casque              + 5 more            Post #140
 
Mal
      5   Grand Crown                                                                     Kimppi
      8   Bone Knife          Flail               Great Helm          + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Spiculum                                                                        Post #140

Ist
- 
 
Gul
      5   Elegant Blade                                                                   Kimppi
      5   Ogre Axe                                                                        smilts
 
Vex
      5   Crystal Sword       Death Mask                                                  Kimppi
      8   Flanged Mace        Heavy Belt          Heavy Crossbow      Suwayyah            Post #140
 
Ohm
      5   Full Helm                                                                       Smips
      8   Amn Rune            Falcata             Shako               War Javelin         Post #140

Lo
-
 
Sur
     5    Mace                Mithril Point       Nef Rune            + 3 more            Kimppi
     5    Ogre Maul           2x Gothic Plate     Wrist Sword         + 2 more            Smips

Ber
     5    Cedar Bow           Sharkskin Belt      Greaves                                 LongingForDeath
new fal, P 5.
 
Top