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little question

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Tatauga, Jun 29, 2005.

  1. Tatauga

    Tatauga IncGamers Member

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    little question

    hi all! i just want to ask if a summon necromancer is good at pvm.. i'm thinking on max all the skeleton summon, it's good in hell? tnx a lot
     
  2. aman

    aman Assassin Moderator

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    i think the best summon necro is the fishymancer

    but if you are going to go with max summons just make sure to put some in curses like amp damage + decrep

    but pure summons are exellent at pvm in hell. You can do the whole game without too much difficulty.
     
  3. Tatauga

    Tatauga IncGamers Member

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    with pure summons what do you mean? i mean which could be a pure summons build?
     
  4. Myrakh-2

    Myrakh-2 IncGamers Member

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    The core skelemancer has 20 points in Skeleton Mastery, 20 in Raise Skeleton, 1 in Clay Golem, Golem Mastery and Summon Resist, one in Decrep and all curses leading to it, and preferably one in Corpse Explosion.

    This build will handle most of the game --- hard PIs are unkillable unless you are lucky with corpse placement, and Diablo Clone I wouldn't want to try either, but other than that...

    Since there are still a lot of skillpoints available you can choose different paths. My pure Skelemancers max Corpse Explosion and Raise Skeleton Mage as well, add the points leading to Revive (just one point there is more than enough), add one point to Bonearmor (Marrowwalks-boosted) for additional safety, and get the other curses as well, although I don't use the AI curses: Amp Damage is my main curse, Decrep is my Act boss curse and occasionally I use it vs. unfriendly boss mod combos, and Lower Resist is for monsters were elemental damage from mages and firewalls is more efficient.

    There are also various forms of hybrids.

    EDIT: Skelemancers kill with skills, so +skills in your gear, or +summoning, is a MUST to enjoy playing. Also, the ONLY merc choice is an A2 merc with Might aura.
     
  5. Tatauga

    Tatauga IncGamers Member

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    so i have to put skill point not only on summon skill? i hoped that my summon skeletons can kill monster in hell but i was wrong :(
     
  6. SharnMes

    SharnMes IncGamers Member

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    They can kill monsters in hell but it will speed things up if u add curses...

    I also use decrepfy when I just started a game so my merc has a chance to kill monsters without getting swarmed...

    Damn slow merc!
     
  7. Myrakh-2

    Myrakh-2 IncGamers Member

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    You need to improve your skellies a bit. Maxed Skeleton Mastery and one point in Summon Resist (assuming you have some +skills adding to it) are required, curses are HIGHLY recommended to increase damage output, and so is the Might merc. Clay Golem is for protection.

    Without +skills skeletons CAN kill stuff in hell, but it's a slow drag. You'll want to have some skill adders from your gear to beef them up.

    EDIT:

    Probably depends on merc level and maybe a bit on his gear. My merc is only using cheap stuff (+4 Ariocs, Naj Plate atm, Andariel's visage+RAL --- none of them eth), and he has NO problems killing stuff on his own. I cast Gumby before leaving town, and I amp the monsters as usual...
     
  8. Tatauga

    Tatauga IncGamers Member

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    so i have to put everything on summon and then some point on decrepify or amp? and i'm supposed to use golem too? and another thing: what is merc?
     
  9. SharnMes

    SharnMes IncGamers Member

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    On point in amp and decrepify. And since you NEED summon resist your HAVE to put point in golem so you might as well use him ;)

    Merc = short for mercenary. The hirelings you can get in act 1,2,3 and 5.

    EDIT : Myrakh-2 : I didnt say he had trouble killing I just hate to see him getting swarmed by some ultra fast boss pack and then see HIM getting slaughtered. Then I have to run for my life. And I HATE running :)
     
  10. Myrakh-2

    Myrakh-2 IncGamers Member

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    Clay golem (which even those few who like to use other types have to admit is useful...) is a "support unit": he has a lot of hitpoints, high "target priority" (so monsters love to attack him), and he slows monsters around him. Since only one point (and a few +skills) is enough, the return of investment is off the scale.

    Similar for corpse explosion --- it does damage based on the monster hitpoints, so it scales up in nightmare and hell along with the monsters. Another one point wonder skill, but it can be maxed as well.

    Many curses are one point wonders as well.

    Mercs are the guys you can hire at towns. Only one merc per player, though. Different mercs have different advantages/disadvantages, but there is only one type that's really recommendable for a Skelemancer since he'll boost your Skeleton Damage.

    There is some guide for a "Fishymancer" which is a Skelemancer similar to the type I'm "promoting", so you can read that one as well. I hope it's in the stickies somewhere. The link I have given in my first post describes my OWN skelemancer --- it's not a guide.

    If you look at the "invested" column in the skill tables you can see how I chose to distribute skillpoints --- which, incidentally, is the same as the build I've outlined in the post. If you look at the "total" columns you can see that I have concentrated my +skill items on the summoning tree and the skeleton skills.

    You might also notice that my Skelemancer doesn't have teleport :-(
     
  11. Tatauga

    Tatauga IncGamers Member

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    ah ok i understan.. the build will be: 20 skeleton raise, 20 skeleton mastery,, 1 point on resist, 1 point on amp and decrepify, 1 or more in corpse explosion and the rest? (i promise this is my last question^^)
     
  12. Pherdnut

    Pherdnut IncGamers Member

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    1 point in every curse is very useful. Even if you don't get mages, Lower Resist is a good way to enhance corpse explosion damage against unbreakable physical immunes since CE is half fire and half physical. Summoners leave plenty of room for extra skills.

    The way I see it, the essential skills are 20/20 in skeletons, 3 to get the clay golem and lower resists, 2 to get corpse explode, and 1 in amplify damage. That's 46 points and you have a build that can handle anything. I've never come across an unbreakable physical immune that wasn't near a convenient pile of dead corpses and 20 points in mages will make that issue a moot point.
     
  13. vagrantrogue

    vagrantrogue IncGamers Member

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    what is a good way for a pure summoner to deal with physical immunes? usually, when i go against physical immunes, there are a small pack of them and not enough corpses to blow up and take down the PI's. leaving me with the option to run and lose them, or sit there and think while my skeletons and PI's get locked in a stalemate.

    would a fire golem make a good investment to deal with PI? or mages?
     
  14. Tatauga

    Tatauga IncGamers Member

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    ok tnx a lot^^
     
  15. Myrakh-2

    Myrakh-2 IncGamers Member

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    I use my mages *and* TO firewalls on them, or just the mages if they are PI/FI where the PI can't be broken. Breaking elemental immunities with LR won't help much, so breaking the FI still means you are dealing with an FI, even though your fire/fire mages are doing a bit of damage now.

    I generally consider TO a great choice for a Skelemancer.

    I would also consider bonespirit. Adding 20 points there (instead of mages), a few more levels from +skills and boosting from marrowwalks won't give an uber-killing-spell, but it should do enough damage to take down the occasional hard PI --- and that's all that's needed, since it's strictly a secondary skill. This will also give a place to dump your excess skillpoints when you've reached lvl 90+ --- if you don't have another use for them, dump them into bonewall to improve both Bone Armor and Bone Spirit.

    Mages, on the other hand, are always around. Their damage isn't great, esp. when using Amp on the monsters, but they are minions that help protect you, and they are not running forward to engage in melee range, leaving you defenseless :) They also help in certain situations --- the cold mages will help with the act boss slowing, the poison mages will shut down monster healing, making them great support vs. dclone.

    When dealing with "dangerous" hard PIs, it might be necessary to decrep them --- not a problem when going the bone route, but it slows down the mages. Also, bad mod combos could be an issue --- the skeleton warriors will engage the hard PI, but if the guy is doing too much damage they might not hold up until the end.

    I have not yet met such a PI, but I *do* have my firewalls --- so the guy *has* to be FI as well to be eligible for the "most dangerous monster" award.

    It depends on determination as well --- you can always TP out to replenish your army. The poison from the mages (make sure you merc didn't replace it with his measly poison he might have on his weapon...) will prevent the boss from recovering hitpoints while you're away, so *eventually* you can take down even an extra strong cursed fanatism spectral hit lightning enchanted stoneskin PI/FI Lister :) Although I sure hope I'll never meet that guy...

    EDIT: and lets not forget the "obscure" options. You could stick Harmony into a low requirements bow for the elemental damage it provides, although it might take a while due to very low AR...

    And from the "expensive dupewords" department, you could probably find other runewords that you could use for magic/elemental damage... but again, AR trouble, probably. ITD won't work, since hard PI are always champions or bosses.
     
  16. vagrantrogue

    vagrantrogue IncGamers Member

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    yea...i'd figure i take the bone route, and not go pure summoning. i went ahead and just put points into bone spirit. i dont have the luxury of TO, since i've decided to go single player mode, and it's not so easy to find. i can probably get to hell diablo before i find more than one piece of the set.

    now, if i ever run into an extra strong cursed fanatism spectral hit lightning enchanted stoneskin PI/MI Lister, then i'm gonna jump in bed, cover myself in blankets and cry. :(
     
  17. Myrakh-2

    Myrakh-2 IncGamers Member

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    Well, I always assume Marrowwalks when suggesting bone spirit. I don't think a lvl 20+ bonespirit is doing enough damage without the synergy... although I could be wrong.

    Mages can easily work on their own (assuming some +skills as usual...), but elemental resistances/immunities are generally higher, and only fire/lightning mages do the bigger chunks of damage.

    Arreat Summit has a table listing mage damage, which is genereally considered to be accurate around here.

    EDIT: if you decide to stick a point into Revive, you'll also have one in Mages (plus skills) :) So when dealing with a hard PI and a bonespirit with low damage, you could TP out and get a poison and cold mage... not for the damage, just for the prevent healing and the cold chilling.
     
  18. vagrantrogue

    vagrantrogue IncGamers Member

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    i have a level 25 bonespirit that eats up about 2 mana pot to kill a group of phys immunes. *hopes marrowalks will spawn sometime soon*
     

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