Level 20 skills?

sicilian

Diabloii.Net Member
Level 20 skills?

My apologies if this has been brought up before. It was mentioned that the skill tiers were set at 1, 5, 10, 15, and 20 (though 20's have yet to be revealed). There's a couple of things about this that bother me...

1) I always found that character progression post level 30 in D2 became less exciting, as you had no new skills to build towards. Now that's going to happen 10 levels sooner?

2) If they did this because characters are going to gain levels less frequently, it may detract from the consistent progression of your character. In essence, the end game grind will occur a little sooner.

Anyone see anything mentioned about their reason for this change? Or anyone have any input themselves? I still think the game look fantastic and I'll adapt to whatever system they put in place, I was just curious.
 

Apocalypse

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Level 20 skills?

I actually like this change a lot. One thing that really bothered me in D2 was that I had the game beat (norm of course) before I even reached level 30. now if 20 is the new high I am all for it however, that level 20 means you need 20 points in that tree so it would only be level 20 if you put every last point into the one tree and skipped the other trees completely, and this is something I doubt will happen(also assuming there are no quest for skill points before level 20). They also said the cap is probably 100 so I do not think the leveling will go any slower, infact it sounds to me like it might go faster (faster than regular D2 but nothing compared to rushing) so I would not worry to much about it
 

sicilian

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Level 20 skills?

That's a very good point. I hadn't considered the point requirements in each tree, which changes things considerably.

I feel better now :)
 

Apocalypse

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Level 20 skills?

That's a very good point. I hadn't considered the point requirements in each tree, which changes things considerably.

I feel better now :)
lol glad i could help. personally i think it will work out ok if they stick to the 1 point per level system of D2. if they give 2 points per or a bonus point every 3rd or 4th or whatever level it could change my mind. also how many bonus points are we going to get, i am sure we will get some. also why not give us the bonus points for beating the act boss quest? hmm i guess advancing acts is reward enough so nevermind lol


 

Farmrush

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Level 20 skills?

You must also consider many of the skills in Diablo 2 were effectively useless at higher levels and this is something they intend to address in Diablo 3 by having so many passives which boost the power of various skills in that tree (or even across trees). This is combined with the fact you will be treasure hunting for higher runes all the time and changing the way your skills actually play. I doubt you will be finding the highest tier runes left and right at level 20, and more suspect they will be a hell-level item. But of course that's a road that still needs to be traversed and you'll be swapping up runes all day long.
 

lunarleif

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Level 20 skills?

When you clear out the cave for the first quest you get a skill point and the first quest in act 2 gives you a skill point apocalypse.
 

CorduroyAunt

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Level 20 skills?

Apocolypse and sicilian i wanted to add in on this discussion with my thoughts...

I agree with both of you, except i think that you will get at least 1 bonus skill per act/chapter and i think you will be able to max out your BASE skill with 30 instead of 20..at least i want it to :p
 

commonhumans

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Level 20 skills?

My two cents.

I welcome the change. I dont want a d2 clone.

...and no need for name calling Aunty :)
 

Jedouard

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Level 20 skills?

I actually like this change a lot. One thing that really bothered me in D2 was that I had the game beat (norm of course) before I even reached level 30. now if 20 is the new high I am all for it however, that level 20 means you need 20 points in that tree so it would only be level 20 if you put every last point into the one tree and skipped the other trees completely, and this is something I doubt will happen(also assuming there are no quest for skill points before level 20).
This information is dated. This is the last news Bashiok gave us:

[BLUE="(http://www.blizzblues.com/us/skill-trees-16903518463.html)"]"So, the system we have now... you'll have to just picture it without any visual representation, sorry. They're not radically different visually except that the trees are all viewable at the same time. Taking the barbarian trees for instance (berserker, battlemaster, juggernaut) they're not tabbed now, but instead all viewable at the same time. Side by side.

This is important due to how they are now a unified tier progression. Instead of spending 5 points in the berserker tree to then begin spending points in the second tier of the berserker tree, the new design allows you to spend wherever you like. As long as your points in the first tier of skills adds up to five, the next tier for all trees is unlocked.

...Currently we're envisioning the majority of skills to be capped at 5 points, to begin with. As a form of progression we're planning for players to be able to increase the point caps of skills. More than likely to a maximum of 15. It's a system that's still under heavy design, but the fact of choosing and increasing key skills beyond their initial cap is important to this new unified tier system."[/BLUE]

It sounds like there will be two dynamics: 1) earning skill points; 2) earning skill cap points. Who knows how this will work, but you can guess it will require more than earning skill points - maybe equipment, maybe dough, maybe experience, etc. I can also guess that this probably means a level-5 skill won't do too much later on just by itself: you will either have to raise the cap or have another passive skill boost it or both.

In response to the OP, new skills were not the only thing that made me look forward to progression; things such as completing my perfect build with all the right skill point allotments and equipment and seeing my character become a consistent one-hit-one-killer or godlike general (necro) was just as cool. And all the more so given that once you play for a while, you already know what skills are coming - it was the power, not the skill itself that drove me.

To this regard, the early game, where you got new skills was awesome and then the step by step addition of your final equipment was also awesome - Level such and such you put on 9 + to skill grand charms, level so and so you put on your harlequin crest... annihilus... enigma... and so on and so on.

When you add that to the new skill runes, which, at high levels, will essentially metamorphose your regular skills into something similar, but new and far more powerful, I think the intrigue of progression will remain quite high (for me at least).

Lastly, given your ability to respec, you will be able to move through the game - though, not necessarily level - much quicker, being godlike for the level you are at because you aren't banking skill points for later use. You could max out a bunch of tier 1 and 2 skills to get through your early char levels, respec for the mid levels with a limited repertoire of skills in tiers 1,2,3,4 and/or five and then respec once again for the high/final levels giving yourself 7-8 active, powerful skills from all tiers and trees. This will allow you to look forward to a whole new play type at least a few times in your character progression, the last play type being the build that can handle any situation, i.e. godlike again.


 
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Death_of_Angels

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Level 20 skills?

I think one thing that you are forgetting is that character builds will be completely different in D3 than they were in D2.

In D2, most builds operate out of one skill tree, with support from a second tree to either enhance the primary abilities or to give balance.

In D3, it seems that all builds will have to operate out of all three trees, in order to be balanced.

So, yes, you can get tier 5 skills as early as level 20, but i think in reality most builds won't have tier 5 skills until level 40 or 50 so that they stay balanced and are able to survive in the Nightmare and Hell difficulties, whereas in D2, you can get tier 5 skills as soon as they are available, and not really have to worry about your character's killing power.

That being said, there is the respec option, but we don't know how that will really work or how many respecs a character will get. That in and of itself will completely change the way characters are built.
 

theeliminator

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Level 20 skills?

just incase you didn't know there are 7 tiers of powers in the newist build. here is a pic to see for yourselves.
[/URL][/IMG]
 

Jedouard

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Level 20 skills?

just incase you didn't know there are 7 tiers of powers in the newist build. here is a pic to see for yourselves.
[/URL][/IMG]
This pic too is old. Read the Bashiok quote I posted. Who knows how many tiers there are now or how many there will be or even if they will stick with the unified tier system.


 

theeliminator

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Level 20 skills?

This pic too is old. Read the Bashiok quote I posted. Who knows how many tiers there are now or how many there will be or even if they will stick with the unified tier system.
I did read Bashiok's words, in it he said nothing to make me think the skill trees have changed at all from the pic outside of cosmetics and now you have to have 5 skill points in any tier to advance to the next.


 
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