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Lets put are heads together and make the nastiest pvp bowazon possible

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by Als, Apr 1, 2005.

  1. Als

    Als Banned

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    Lets put are heads together and make the nastiest pvp bowazon possible

    Alright i wana be just flat out bm in pubbys, I want the highest dmg output and best survivability possible. Price is not a problem. Here are my current thoughts.

    1. Faith, Fortitude combo with Pride on merc, get 32020s and the rest of the duped stuff once ladder converts :p anyone got a dmg figure on a normal bowazon with faith fort and pride?

    2. Windforce, Fortitude, 120 45 helm, verdungos, Cats eye, 2 raven frosts, War travs,Godly passive gloves, Faith on mercenary, also anyone got a dmg figure on this? And how can i get 7 frames with this build. I think this would do the most overall dmg.

    3. Faith, Fortitude, Combo with a act 1 merc with vigor. Lots more frw but will the dmg be a big loss?

    K so what i wana know is a setup 7 frames for each of the builds, then i want to know which one will have the greatest dmg output. And finally which one will be the most dangerous in pvp once ladder converts,i have the 32020s lined up for once it converts. Thank you!!!!
     
  2. slick4hire

    slick4hire IncGamers Member

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    For the IAS needed for 7 FPS with WF, I just did calculations for a build I am considering for PVM, and it came up to be 100 IAS needed with a level 12 Fanat on merc to make the hydra meet that speed.

    Shael WF: 40
    Gloves: 20
    Ammy: 20
    Belt: 10 (Nosferatus for a real BM duel)
    IAS jewel in the Helm: 15
    Total: 105 IAS

    Or for the very well off:
    ED/IAS WF: 35
    Gloves: 20
    Ammy: 20
    Belt: 10
    IAS Jewel in Helm: 15
    Total: 100

    Incidentally, here is where I insert the disclaimer that putting yourself to their level makes you no better than they are... ;-D

    Good luck and happy hunting.
     
  3. Als

    Als Banned

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    hehe ty for the reply. 100 ias on an wf one eh? Well with a level 12 taht would be low end, the one im using has 14 aura which would bring the ias down by lol 2. So i would need 95 ias.
    Ammy-20
    120 45 helm-45
    Gloves-20
    belt-10
    Meaning my setup could be for 7 frames per an attack
    Wf
    Fortitude
    2x p ravens
    120-45 helm
    War travs
    Godly 20 ias 2 passive 20 dex and more gloves
    Nostrous coil
    Cats eye
    39x32020s once ladder converts, p anni
    Merc equip
    Faith Bow
    Fortitude??? or Dragon??
    Helmn-120-45 lol can u imagine a merc with 120 45 faith and fortitude...
    Anyone got any dmg estimates from this??
    And i dont care about stooping to there level :p I wana play to have some fun and pissing off people in this game just happens to be really fun and easy.

    Wait a tic if i 40-15 my wf would that mean i would could get rid of the belt and use verungos?? Man this could be a really really sick combo
     
  4. Euro-Crash

    Euro-Crash IncGamers Member

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    Nasty? Are you shooting for BM or dueling league. IMHO, nasty embodies use of KB, Poison, High Speed Bow with average to above average damage. It also embodies the use of Guided Arrow and Multi Shot. I thinks something like this:


    -Faith Matriarchal Bow/Harmony (Bow of Choice) ---> 15 resist
    -Fortitude Archon Plate --> 25-30 resist
    -Ravenfrost (20dext)
    -Ravenfrost (20dext)
    -Crafted Hit Power Gloves (+2 Passive/LL/ML/20IAS)
    -P. Verdungo's
    -War Traveler's
    -Cat's Eye
    -Vampire Gaze (UM) --> 15 resist
    -Annihilus SC ----->10-20 resist

    This will put you into the best possible frame for attacking (7fpa). Your damage numbers may be a bit lower than that of a WF-Zon, but stick with me. You will want to squeeze out as much dexterity as you can, while still attaining ~1000 hit points.

    Harmony on switch is for increasing distance between you and your enemy. Your next goal would be to increase your resistance to a suitable level. You are going to need some additional charms for that.

    With the gear selection mentioned above you will have 65-80 resist all gained from equipment. With the Anya quests you will have 95-110 resist all. Thirteen 5% resist all small charms would allow for max resists, for a total of 14 small charm slots used. This leaves 26 slots open.

    Your next move is to work on skill point placement. Obviously Guided Arrow will be maxed (23 points needed). Your next concern should be the passive tree. For PvP you will need to get your CS up to slvl 17 (with +skills) and Penetrate should be maxed. Moving on to the Dodge tree, you need to ensure at least a 50% chance to dodge in each situation.

    This should set you up as a PvP Bowzon, but your next concern is how will you hit your targets and how will you hurt them. You will undoubtedly need to use a HEL'd Demonlimb to pre-puff with Enchant. You may even want to consider having a CTA in your stash with this beauty to pre-buff with BO as well. You won't have arrows equipped for Harmony, so switching should not be too much of an issue.

    Next up, its either 26 (100-290) pdsc's...depending on your moral standards, or 26 3/20/20's (again based on your moral standards. All in all, this is not a cheap build. Skill points should be fully allocated early, and the only purpose of leveling would be to gain more attribute points for disbursement into vitality or dexterity.
     
  5. Shlongor

    Shlongor IncGamers Member

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    The problem with that build is it will get owned by so many people. Particularly enigma barbs that know what they are doing. You NEED to go hybrid charged javazon/bowazon.
     
  6. Als

    Als Banned

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    I do not want a hybred, nor do i care about resist. Any zon hit by a fireball is a dead zon anyways, espically with conviction runewords and whatnot out. My goal is to be fast and dodge the fireballs, i like the idea of harmony on switch but i would lose titans and ss for barbs if i did that. And why in gods green earth would you max penetrate? Guided arrow is itd meaning it ignores targets defense. I want to shoot at 7 frames per an attack do ATON of dmg and be mobile. I dont care about resists, in pvp its you get hit you die pritty much. A level 17 cs wont do crap against a barb lets look at the numbers.

    Barb 4.3k life and avg of about 4k ww( typical pubby barb) level 17 charged strike, dont got points for synergies 1-262 dmg. Yeah thats not gona work...
    On the hybred not lets look into that. I dont have enough points for charged strike or any other skill for that matter. My strategy with barbs is the old run and shoot method, it works with most barbs suprisingly and hammerdins. They try and teleport on top of you you run straight and there ww locked. They teleport ahead of you, you backcut and hit um with guided arrows. Same applies to hammerdins, most good zons can run faster then teleport.
    39x290s averages out to be 1.1k dmg per a second not bad.... 32020s would provide life and ar for multishot plus alot more dmg. So which one of the 3 choices would get the most dmg and frw and dodging ability is taken care of.The only reason i would need life is for bone necros. I got my ww barb to take care of the other people.
     
  7. Als

    Als Banned

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    Edit: Maybe the hybred might be viable, if i make some sacrefices bow wise.

    griffons eye 15 ias socketed 1 skill decent other mods
    Highlords 20 ias 1 skill
    Bow: Gmb Faith(95 ias needed)
    2-3 java gloves 20 ias dex str.
    160 60 ias life 60 ias exactly 95 ias.
    Rings 1 soj 1 raven frost
    Belt Verdungos
    boots: war travs
    Weapon switch Eth titans/ eth t strokes Mosers duel umed/ 70 sanctuary high block
    8 java gcs with life, 1 anni rest 32020s. My dmg estimates 6.1k cs, im guessing roughly 4k guided arrows??? What do u guys think abou this? Stat points are 3 into prequests
    8 into Multishot, 5 into guided arrow, 1 dodge(46 percent) 1 avoid(54 percent) 1 evade(46 percent), 1 critical strike(54 percent) 20 into power strike, 20 into charged strike,20 into lightining bolt, 20 into lightining strike
    Resists: are gona flat out suck.

    Strategy Range vrs sorcs, Necros, barbs(until they get close) Assasins, druids until they teleport ontop of me.
    Cs vrs anything thats within 2 feet of me. Would this be better then a flat out bowazon??
     
  8. Dacar92

    Dacar92 Community, Amazon, DH Moderator & Inc Clan Officer

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    Als, just so you know, you can edit your posts for a while after you post them. Please don't make a second post, just to add to your first. Try the edit feature. IIRC, you can edit for an hour after you originally post.
     
  9. Euro-Crash

    Euro-Crash IncGamers Member

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    That's well and good...but what will you do if and when your opponent tries to punk out and leave the duel? I find that multi shot fixes that problem REAL fast. Spray em....

    As for CS? With the gear you'll be using you need as much damage as possible. Since the MAT bow is going to be doing average damage at high speed you need to increase the likelihood of it doing double damage.

    Since there really isn't really any use of points for this build other than guided and the dodge tree (which IMHO can get you into more trouble if you put too many points into them), and there aren't synergies for guided, what else will you be using them for.

    The primary reason for using PENETRATE is this:

    -Do you plan on leveling your ZON by standing around while everyone else does the work for you?

    -Guided arrow is an excellent SINGLE TARGET skill, but what will you do for crowd control as you are leveling?

    -Since you aren't going to pursue the hybrid route, what else will you be using your points on?

    This is why "on God's green earth" you would get penetrate up. If you cannot kill any monsters, you won't level. You need something to control packs, and if you plan on using poison with guided, then your opponent will undoubtedly whine and run back into town. Sometimes it is good to have a SHOTGUN to spray a torrent of arrows rather than hoping that the one you have tracking an opponent will get to them in time.

    Cheers!
     
  10. aznbboi16

    aznbboi16 IncGamers Member

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    You don't need penetrate to hit monsters and you don't have to kill monsters to level. When I level my pvp chars, I don't put a single stat point in until I can wear my anni and enigma and even then I usually only put enough for enigma.

    It is very pointless to max penetrate out on a pvp guided arrow zon, especially if you plan to synergize a secondary attack and ESPECIALLY if that attack happens to be CS (This skill has a LOT of synergies). One point is good enough. To say that multishot is good against runners and that you will need the AR to hit them is nonsense. When they are running they have 0 defense. If they are walking, you should just be shooting GA.

    Multishot is good vs fast teleporters though (sorcs in particular), and they usually don't have very high defense so you won't have to worry. Besides, my Faith/Fortitude zon has around 10k Multishot AR with almost NO charms (2 max/ar gcs, 1 ar sc), and 1 point in penetrate. Remember, faith has ITD (for your pvm needs) and a huge %AR boost. Penetrate is a thing of the past when you use this bow.

    Personally I like a GA/Plague Jav hybrid if any kind of hybrid at all. You can fully synergize the skill, does good damage and cannot be absorbed (although it can almost be negated). You still have points to put in your passives and you can still max your guided arrow.

    D/A/E skills
    Valkyrie
     
  11. Euro-Crash

    Euro-Crash IncGamers Member

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    You must like having a low chance to hit monsters. Even with 485 Dexterity and a minimal investment in Penetrate, my AR is barely over 20K. THis is adequate for monsters but for bosses its not. Chances to hit bosses are reduced dramatically even on a high dext build.

    Magic Arrow attack rating on my ZON is 26K...and guess what, the chance to hit Hell Ball is not quite what I would expect it to be. WHile it is true that you don't need to kill monsters to level your character, it is quite honestly a boring way to play the game. For example:

    -Join a BOT run BAAL game (large percentage of Baal runs are now BOT run)
    -Party with others
    -Enter Portal to throne of destruction
    -Move to safe spot
    -Stand
    -Watch
    -Exit game
    -Repeat

    To me this gets old...I would rather level myself and my merc in 8-player BAAL runs while running the pit SOLO. But that's just me...I really don't care for standing around twiddling my thumbs, while everyone else whines that I am not helping.

    Investing in the D/A/E tree is a good plan, but placing too many points there can get you into trouble. Personally, I don't like getting caught in
    Dodge-Lock (I am sure you know the feeling). NOthing worse than continuously dipping out of the way to avoid being hit. This is almost worse than the Block-Lock of 1.09.

    Your statement about AR being a thing of the past with FAITH is incorrect. I have a FAITH/Multi-Zon. Her AR is 20K...and while I can hit most monsters 95% of the time, I am an AR freak and like to blow by the defense of Act Bosses (Diablo, Baal, Ancients, etc.). Even with the 20K AR it still leave me with a 68% chance to hit Baal with Multi...not what I like to see.

    Using Mutli-shot with a low AR versus runners who incidentally have no defense is a good tactic. Undoubtedly you are the expert as my ideas have been deemed pure nonsense. I have enjoyed the banter, but this is beyond ridiculous.

    Tell me then, that using 3/20/20 charms is nonsense and I will agree with you. If you don't need the AR, then you could get by using 3/20 (which are far less expensive and less likely to disappear on you). I do agree that the synergies for CS would need to be developed for a hybrid build...but I thought the title of the thread was "make the nastiest PvP Bow-zon".

    If we are going all bow, then agreed a heavier investment in D/A/E would be advised. The Valkyrie is a good investment if going against a ZON who is also using guided (or versus auto-targetting skills such as FoH, TS, and Bone Spirit) but against other attacks it isn't, as most people will not go after your valkyrie - opting instead to come after YOU.

    But what do I know...my ideas are nonsensical. Nonsensical enough to have a guide posted - albeit a PvM guide.
     
  12. aznbboi16

    aznbboi16 IncGamers Member

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    My chances to hit monsters are fine, my chances to hit bosses are 100% (-whatever % block they have). Use GA for bosses, not multi. Anyways, this is barely important because it's focused on pvp, where 1 point in penetrate is fine.

    AR is a thing of the past with Faith. Faith provides ITD and a huge %AR boost to boot. GA works more than well enough for bosses, ITD makes your work simple for everything else pvm. Also let me ask, why would you multishot a boss? Maxing penetrate on a PVP zon just so you can run baal with multishot is a waste. Remember this is for pvp.

    As far as D/A/E skills go, I'd like to have a nice chance to dodge something. Dodging and maybe wasting a few frames certainly is better than dying or being put into hit recovery IMO. Yes occasionally you will be dodge locked and die, but if you didn't dodge those hits, you would be dead anyways.

    You don't need 3/20/20s for the AR, I agree. However, 3/xx/20 will be more expensive because they are legit (or so people will claim). My non ladder zon uses 3/xx/17+ and her multishot does hit teleporting sorcs fine. The only other times I use multishot are vs players with minions (to kill the minions) and runners.

    He also stated he may go hybrid, so I gave him advice.

    Also, I'm not sure if you know this, but while running, your defense is reduced to zero.

    The valk is a distraction and it can deal damage at high levels if people ignore it. And they're good for pvm too since you're so concerned with that. You probably won't have many points to spend here either way.

    Well, anyone can write a guide. I didn't say your ideas are nonsensical, but the need for AR to hit running players is not needed and that is true. The only time you would need AR really badly would be when you have to use Jab. I rarely use jab, so that wouldn't justify dumping points into penetrate for me.
     
  13. Euro-Crash

    Euro-Crash IncGamers Member

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    You cannot have higher than 95% (if measured with AR). Guided does indeed strike the target all the time. In which case this is a true statement. If PvP, then maybe you may not want to use Penetrate.

    ITD is helpful against everything that is not Champion, Unique or SUper-Unique. GA works well against bosses without stone skin. Magic Arrow works well against those with Stone Skin and Immunity. Having an AR is useful in these situations...but for PvP, it may not be entirely necessary (unless using JAB...but this will not be often)


    Agreed, just be cautious when investing points here. Overdoing it will put you at a significantly higher risk of becoming dodge locked. I think 50-65% chance to avoid an attack is fine. Pushing it much higher is risky...but it really is a personal tast issue.

    It is quite useful against minions, runners, teleporters. The charms are a matter of taste. I would go for 3 to max 20 to life charms since they would be cheaper (possible to find even)


    Thank you.

    I did know this. ;-)
     
  14. Als

    Als Banned

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    Sorry that i didnt say this before but i thought it was self evident, this is pvp meaning i dont care about pvm. Leveling is the easiest thing ever, i already got my soceress for mfing and getting hrs why would i need another pvm char?

    Anyways you guys are kinda missing the point of this post. This post is to figure out how to abtain the max killing speed and not be a sitting duck when other builds come around. Thats why i like the 100 frw idea, which is very abtainable.

    So let me rephrase what i said before so some of us might have a clue of what we are posting about and not simply saying we need penetrate for pvp.... not dissing anyone :p

    Ok i wana know should i go hybred to get a better chance at everyting or should i go pure bowazon, if i go pure bowazon what should my equip be(ladder and once ladder converts) Then i want to know if i should weild the faith bow or if i should i throw it on an act 1 merc and have me use a wind force. Or should i use the faith and let my merc use a pride. I have the other equipment planned out for the bowazon so we dont need to worry about stats or equip just which would get the best dmg output. So lets break this down.
    ME WITH FAITH MERC WITH PRIDE
    Ok the faith gives me lower dmg on this but i can obtain alot of bonuses from concentration, and might. The bad side is the 309 dmg off of faith does not compare to the 500 plus with wind force. So will the wf dmg outway the other ed modifiers?

    ME WITH WF MERC WITH FAITH
    As we all know the dmg on wf is emense, and with the new faith aura it is very possible to hit 7 frames per an attack(95 ias after fantacism applied) But will the dmg from wf outway the bonuses from the ed.

    Those are the questions i want anwsered and also if someone could possibly help me with a equip setup for a hybred cs/Guided arrow multishot zon that would be nice here is what i am thinking(this is for when ladder converts with non ladder)

    Helm:Griffons eye Lots of plus to lighting and - to resists and i can 40/15 it(can switch out for 120-45 then switch out the 160 60 for coh and still hit the required frame)
    Armor: 160 60 main provider of ias needed to hit 7 frames with faith bow(95 ias) 75 so far
    Ammy:Maras 30 resist all 2 skills for java
    Rings: 1 soj 1 perf raven frost
    3 to java skills gloves plus to strength and 20 ias(95 ias hit)
    Belt:verdungos
    Boots:grim spurs strength resists what more can u ask for.

    Inventory: 6 java gcs with 40 life 1 anni the rest 32020s. I think this is my dmg estimates if someone could get closer or be exact that would help alot.

    3-5k guided arrow(takes out sorcs :p and gives a range skill)
    6k cs( haha stupid melee chars with enigma)
    Build complete at level 90. If someone wants to help me switch some things up that would be nice, i would like to maintain atleast 8 frames with wf or faith and be able to switch to jav's or my bow in any duel and not be constantly running to town.
     

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