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Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Jesse24, Jul 14, 2008.

  1. Jesse24

    Jesse24 IncGamers Member

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    Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    I'm looking for ideas on how to improve on what we know as the Diablo playing system, specifically, building a character in your mind, rushing a character as quickly as possible, MFing + trading for ideal items, then Baal running until you feel like making another character.

    Addictive? It can be, but after you know the game like the back of your hand, the true enjoyment of Diablo 2 only comes in small spurts after hours of mindless periods.

    This begs the question, how can we remove the repetitiveness from the game without taking the Diablo feel?

    It seems Blizzard is putting much effort into storyline and random storyline variations, and truth be told, it's not near enough...granted I acknowledge it won't be the only thing they improve. However, let's pretend we have some influence in what those other things will be.

    The truth is with Diablo 2 especially, but also with most other RPGs I've played, you pay attention to the storyline the first time through, if that. What you really care about after rushing through a quest is getting your reward and moving on. To the average Diablo gamer looking for a wicked character with cool gear and things to smash with maximum efficiency, storyline always comes far beyond the excitement of designing a character, levelling, item hunting, and PvPing.

    All of these areas truly need improvement to take the Diablo series to the next level. So without the biases people seem to be carrying about the short demo vid, with a game still in design with plenty of things still influencable, how do we do this?

    (Bear in mind this isn't a thread to complain about the direction of the game, you've all got a million other threads to do just that.)
     
  2. Doctrinaire

    Doctrinaire IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    - Timed/scored events to enhance the competitive nature of the end-game. Think wave defense, timed runs, or dungeons that are scored in some way (Like Halo 3/COD4 maps).

    - Account-only, abnormally powerful twink gear obtained from high level content could mitigate some of the drudgery of taking new characters through Nightmare and Normal over and over again.

    - True difficulties unlocked upon the completion of Normal or Hell, much like Hardcore mode. Or, perhaps, an expanded Ladder mode.

    - Character trading built into the framework of the game.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  3. toppknott

    toppknott IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    Let's see what Blizz has in store for us before we dedicate the brainpower to creating fixes. I think this is a thread more suited for the Diablo 2 forums.
     
  4. martymart

    martymart IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    I agree, how can we possibly think up ways to improve a game we've never even played and that isn't anywhere near completion?
     
  5. slickr

    slickr IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    Speak for yourself, many people me included LOVE big story elements in the game and although it may be only fun once, I don't even play second time for story but rather different experience with different class and maybe better gear!

    For example i played over D2 twice and then I played the LOD exp, but that was it. I haven't been playing Diablo for 2 years and only recently(3-4 days ago) reinstalled D2, since D3 was announced!

    Anyways I think that you are overreacting, of course that any game will get boring if you play it for straight 7-8 years and even less.
    I think D3 will do much better in that department with additions like "random adventures", "more story elements and driven quests", destroyable environment and so on will make the game much more enjoyable.

    Also D2 has very limited models of armor, around 10 models/looks for every "armor" piece, I think D3 will have a lot more armor models.
    Also with making every class as unique as possible it will also offer more replaybility since with every class you play differently, gather different armor and just play over the game generally different.

    I think that "random adventures" will have big impact if blizzard can put in 50 different kind of scripted events that will randomly appear anywhere and everywhere!

    Though if you plan on playing the game for straight 8 years then you are right it will get boring and there is little it can be done.
    If you play it casually for say 5 years, like say 3 hours in a week, then the chances of getting bored with it are less!


     
  6. Felix

    Felix IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    Yeah please bear in mind that Diablo is a game and not an early retirement plan. I have come to almost loathe games like WoW where the game is trying to drag you into it and having you live in the game. It is such a poor surrogate for the stimuli of real life, and makes me feel games like that are developed by ppl as criminal as narcotics pushers. It's ill intend.

    The problem is that the customers scream for more and more, and the pushers say this is valid excuse to justify themselves. Though they do it for the money and nothing else.
     
  7. daemonk

    daemonk IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    Game achievements will promote replays. Give players cosmetic prizes or none battle influencing items for achievements. So you've slayed 2000 zombies, you get to summon a zombie non combat pet or something. You beat the game 5 times, you get to toggle a cool red aura around you. You beat a certain boss without using potions, you get a potion bag dedicated to storing potions....etc
     
  8. Nezumi

    Nezumi IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    Except for the whole nobody working on D2 content ... ^_^

    Nothing wrong with brainstorming ideas of what you might like to see. Just don't complain if you do not see it. Even if the developers visit the site and read the post~not every idea can make the cut and somebody has to have final say. We just trust it is some one with a vision of good game play.
    I think Blizzard has earned the right to say "trust us", but people have to right to dream and brainstorm.


     
  9. mince pies

    mince pies IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    Didn't Blizzard say that each character will see the storyline from their own, unique perspective? I imagine that will increase the replay-ativity factor greatly.
     
  10. NKlint

    NKlint IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    :coffee:

    In addition to your emboldened suggestion perhaps instead of "twinking" out a character with items obtained with your earlier character's high level areas, one could kill two birds with one stone by allowing a person to use Gold to craft items via a crafting merchant which would be personalized to your account (no selling/trading to other users). These items would be equipment one could use as placeholders until they find nice equipment which exceeds their crafted item's usefulness. The crafted items would cost gold to add up to a certain number of stats to each item, and would only be usable by the character which created them. The items would have an "iLvl" equal to the current character's "cLvl" so the stats would not exceed the character's current level.

    Crafted items could either be better or worse than items found on the battlefield, but would require a moderate amount of gold to create with an increase in price for each stat you add. This would depend on Blizzard's claim to "make Gold more valuable to players" and would serve as a method to make it more valuable. This method would work in a way to boost the value of gold in the game's economy. High level players which have accumulated a lot of gold can sell their found items, which they chose not to use, to players which need better equipment than they can afford to craft themselves. The person who sold the found item would be able to add the gold he gets from those sales to the savings he is accumulating towards crafting an "uber item" for his character, and the person who bought the Found item will get a nice item for cheaper than a crafted "custom" item would cost.

    Maybe some of the requirements for crafting these items would be Gems/Charms/whatever but not so limited as the horadric cube in the previous game Diablo II which was more random. I personally liked the idea of the crafted items in Diablo II but I didn't like how limited the stats were on them, nor did I like the randomness of the stats which were generated for them. Random stats sort of defeats the purpose of crafting an item. You certainly don't want to go to an armor crafter and pay them for a suit of armor to find out the armor isn't what you asked them to make, thus wasting your time/money.

    Rare/Unique/Set/etc items will always be able to have stats which your crafted items could not have (especially in the case of the Unique/Set/etc categories. I don't think you should be able to craft an item to the specifications of a "Unique" weapon or piece of armor. The crafted items should be able to have some of the basic stat boosts like; +% armor +life/mana/stamina/etc and +% damage +cold/fire/lightning/poison/etc +attack rating or +to skills (if they chose to include this stat in Diablo III).

    Maybe this might be a good way to eliminate a lot of the MFBotting/Duping/Hacking that people seemed to do in Diablo II before they even start. The only thing you'd really need to be concerned with are the ubiquitous gold sellers that plague every other game that's been made which has an economy, but targeting one problem is certainly easier than the multitude of problems than Diablo II had.

    In summary;

    Crafted Items cost gold, and maybe a few materials to make.

    Players craft items when they can afford it, and sell items to players which are looking to buy new stuff when they can't afford to craft themselves.

    Crafted items will have similar stats to rare/unique/set but rare/unique/set will be able to get more unique stats than a crafted item.

    The stats crafted items would be able to have would be limited to basic needs like; +% armor +life/mana/stamina/etc and +% damage +cold/fire/lightning/poison/etc +attack rating or +to skills.


     
  11. sicilian

    sicilian IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    This wouldn't really add too much to replayability, but I think it would be neat endgame addition... might not be technically feasible, and would depend on them still using the skill tree system, but would still be fun:

    I think if you can beat the game on the highest difficulty level with each of the five classes, you get to create a new class called the Master or something. You pick one classes appearance, and then you get to choose any three skill trees you wish.

    Using D2 examples, you could choose a Barbarian looking character who can use Fire Skills, Defensive Auras, and Martial Arts if you want. Or make an Amazon who has Necro Summoning, Druid Summoning, and Offensive Auras to create a super strong army!

    These characters could never be made in Ladder, but for duels it would make for some very interesting matches, expecially since you'd never really know what your opponent is working with ;)
     
  12. Felix

    Felix IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    Maybe put a hardcore mode after Hell difficulty, so you can enter hardcore hell when you have the Patron/Matron title. They could have uniques only found here, have a higher runedropping chance or such, to make it attractive to risk your chars life on a gamble. Maybe up the stats, so a ubertrist torch had +4 skills if from this hc hell level (the corresponding DIII unique of course)

    Would feed some replayability for sure when a sc noob like myself began to loose my chars:).
     
  13. RedawgTS

    RedawgTS IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    I'd like to see achievements similar to Mythos' achievements. They're not just little checkmarks that tell you that you've done something, they are assignable buffs. In Mythos, they're enabled by doing things like killing a boss 15 times, killing 1,000/10,000 insects/beasts/undead, picking up 1,000 keys/pots/gems, breaking 100 creates/barrels. See http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Mythos/Achievements for the full list.
     
  14. Jesse24

    Jesse24 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    We can improve on what we accept and know as the Diablo series so far. We as the fans know what we like and hopefully, how it can be better. If it doesn't happen, then it doesn't happen. But there's an abundance of excitement about what we've seen so far, and I figured a constructive post would be a fun thing to put some energy into to see what we could all come up with instead of chasing rumors with no basis and discussing the demo vid over and over. I trust in Blizzard to make this game good, it's just interesting to see what the fans envision. That's all.

    I agree, I don't want this to be an MMORPG that takes 8 hour a day investments. I'm only planning on giving this game an hour a day of leisure time, I just want this time to be consistently awesome and the anticipation for this starts brewing ideas on how it can be that. I also want to have continued fun a year or so down the road, where the replay value and end game content will take effect. I know Diablo 3 will be awesome the first few times through. This is us figuring out how to maintain that further on.
    That's what we're after hear. I'll restate again because it's important, Diablo 2 the first few times through is awesome! It's the continuation of that that gamers seek.

    No offense, but we're coming from different standpoints, you have to acknowledge that you only played through Diablo a handful of times, while even a casual gamer is going to put more time into it over a span of a few months.

    I hope that clears up a few things about the intent of this post, now let's take a look at what we've come up with so far.



     
  15. Jesse24

    Jesse24 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    I like this idea, I haven't played the games you mentioned but something very difficult and competitive to strive towards in teams would be awesome. In Diablo 2, teamplay was good early on when everyone was starting off, I loved taking a character through the game with 7 other people where everyone's bringing something to the table. But as it progressed, a team ended up consisting of a Sorc that can tele well, a hammerdin that could demolish things, and drifters there to take the player count up, that could contribute in smaller ways. Definitely a bit off base. A system that needs 8 good characters working together to do well in gives a huge reason to meet people and stick together when you build a team that works. A real reason to form clans/guilds that actually meet up to play together regularily.
    I don't quite relate to this one, could you explain better? IMO you could do this pretty effectively in Diablo and it did help pick up the pace, but most were still after the rush instead of fighting through it again.

    Basically, something more difficult than in Diablo 2. That works for me, given that it's doable without relying on a specific character build to carry the team.
    Hard to imagine for me. In what way does this improve the game? To save time from building the character on your own? I could see this being a cool feature but very hard for Blizzard to do right, and once done very difficult to find trades. Never mind trading an item with a few varying details, think about how hard it would be for 2 players to come to an agreement over something as detailed as a character.

    Maybe. If Blizzard can pull it off very well the randomness could keep it interesting, as long as it's not just running to a different place to fight a different monster. Alot of work would need to go into it to make it truly random and different, and not just things we will be familiar with after playing the game a couple times. Destroyable environment is good feature to add realism, but in truth it's really just polish in my opinion.

    Yep. Character customization is huge and probably the only reason people would play Diablo 2 over and over. New ideas come and suddenly you're excited about a new kind of build as you work to make it happen. I hope Blizzard does very well here to make it even better than the second was.
    Also a good idea. The important thing would be to make them cosmetic and not something just added in that everyone does. There should also be some overlapping to prevent everyone from having the same cosmetics, for example with the aura idea, one reward could give you a red while another would give you a blue, etc. so not everyone is anything alike.
    Definitely, but how can they do this right? They can't just give different characters different conversations with NPCs like Diablo 2. An extra side quest or two couldn't hurt but it won't make or break my decision to play a different character.
    Quality idea. Crafting was a pretty cool aspect of D2 and leaves a ton of room to build on. I agree that a key point here is to make this equipment good, but not nearly the best. Just something people can do to keep their characters capable of keeping up without doing massive item farming. Hopefully this idea will encourage people to make new characters efficient and able to earn their way through the game with a team instead of trailing along.

    A few concerns with this:
    1. That balancing something like this would be next to impossible for Blizzard. A good PvP system revolves around balance.
    2. People would see this as the goal to work towards and will quickly run through the game with every character to get to it. Nobody would play the other characters with dedication because they're much more limited. This in turn wastes all the time balancing and creating unique roles for the characters.

    Incorporating Hardcore into the softcore players could be interesting, but would cause a ton of grief for the softcore players which are by far the majority. I would be open to the idea myself but I know a huge part of the Diablo base wouldn't like the idea that in order to be the best they have to risk losing all their work. Some people just can't handle that kind of pressure and things like dieing because of bad lag or player griefing would be heart breaking.
    Too much emphasis on farming in my opinion. You're giving alot of extra power to people who want to mindlessly killing things for the sake of small improvements over a long time. We want to make this game more exciting and more playable, but not an MMORPG. Let me know if I'm seeing this wrong.



     
  16. Jesse24

    Jesse24 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    Thank you. Somebody understands. :smug:

    It's just an outlet for all this anticipation we have. If Blizzard happened to stumble upon this post and take something from it, good for us, but that's not what I'm looking for at all.



     
  17. Jesse24

    Jesse24 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    How do you guys feel about having set level limits for games to prevent rushing? Would it just be a band-aid for the problem or would it help to make people cooperate in a team and have effective characters all the way through?

    How about PvP, is Diablo a game built for dueling and free for alls or could 2v2v2v2, or 4v4, etc. be an option that could work?

    Furthermore on PvP, should it be purely for the excitement and bragging rights or should there be a form of a reward, be it items, cosmetic changes like titles, or a pride sort of thing such as a ranking system?

    I think a big piece of making a game playable for a long period of time without making it MMORPGish is to give rewards that don't necessarily make your character better, but do give special acknowledgment. That way people don't see it as something you NEED to do to have a good character, just something to go for out of your own free will, if you know what I mean.

    Man I just posted alot at once. Trying to guide this thread in the right direction.
     
  18. Doctrinaire

    Doctrinaire IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    The key word is account-only. The items would be bound to your account (but transferable to other characters on the same account) and have an abnormally low required level for their power level.

    I don't like the idea of WoW-style bound items, but I think "Bind on Account" twink-specific gear would make some sense.

    For some reason I've always felt compelled to trade character with people, but never have been able. For example, one might trade a geared Witch Doctor in exchange for a super-rare unique, or two players might duel for keeps.
     
  19. sicilian

    sicilian IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    1) Could be fixed by only allowing Masters to PvP against other Masters. It wouldn't be something to achieve so you could be great, just a fun thing to play around with. In that way, it would be ultimately balanced, since every character could choose whatever they want.

    2) This was my one concern with my idea as well. Rushing would make the accomplishment kind of meaningless, and everyone would be spamming "Master Rush" games :p Not sure what the solution is, other than adding a caveat to the program that says the Master is only unlocked if you complete the characters only using games with a 10 level difference limit. Probably too complicated that way though.


     
  20. Felix

    Felix IncGamers Member

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    Re: Let's brainstorm ideas on improving gameplay quality

    Crafting costing gold and dumbing it down is in my opinion a bad idea. Atm in DII there are a few select items that possibly can complement a character better than any unique. These things are whats being crafted. And the mats for these are part of the currency.

    Basically your suggestion is to craft for low levels, instead of highlevels. I think that will kill of crafting as noone will bother crafting pieces that are marginally better than a Sigons set, which does the job very well allready. See whats worth anything on Ladder atm, it's popular endgame gear. And if it's not endgame competitive it's barely worth a chipped gem.

    As the complete opposite I'd like to see some of the crafting recipies from former patches reintroduced, or reinvented for DIII, so as to create more recipies from which you eagerly get to roll the cube, with an endgame character in mind.

    The bind on account items, are the same to me, I don't see the improvement. It's all about getting gear, and ammasing a lowlevel gearset is quite easy already. I don't like it that a game value reducing aspect (BoE) shall be introduced to improve on a problem that is not even there imo.

    More juicy crafting for the endgame, simply the way it is now where a few stats are added, and the rest rolls out as on a rare, is very good. Very Diabloesque. Maybe as I said look at older crafting recipies, making a ring with a +1 skill is something I'd like to see, with adress to rarity and power of existing unique rings of course.
     

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