Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

[Barefoot Soldier]

Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

Diablo 2 somewhat spoiled us by adding two additional characters with the Expansion, an act I am thankful for, We seem to believe that certain archetypes need to be fulfilled. However what is to say that multiple archetypes couldn’t be fulfilled with one character class. The most glaring need in character classes right now is a ranged unit of sorts.

Sanctuary is obviously a gothically inspired world where a “Ranger” would seem out of place. It’s far too fantastical, far too Lord of the Rings, and too far removed from the grounding of reality. Gothic ideas are more grounded in the perseverance of a ordinary man. I would suggest to first drop the romanticized name ranger and perhaps pick up the name Woodsman. If you look it up it’s not sex specific unless used in the plural form. As this class will be somewhat based on ranger traits I think this single class could cover the bases for what I believe to be three archetypes.

To begin I would like to examine one of the more recent screenshots. Namely I would like to look at the screenshot in the latest Blizzcast where they show the tech tree for the Barbarian. It seems as if the individual trees are designed with a general play style in mind; berserker, juggernaut, battlemaster.

Going of this assumption if you look at the Ranger archetype three ideas come to mind. The first and most obvious is the Marksman (Archer), second would be a Stalker (Shadow Skills, Melee, Healing), Last would be a Beastmaster (I don’t think I need to explain this.).

This opens up all sorts of opportunities. I’m sure the Marksman tree would mimmic the Amazon bow tree to an extent. The Stalker I imagine would look much like the Assassin show skills section. However I would also imagine a portion of it would address the use of melee weapons instead of bows and might contain healing spells which canonically speaking would be herb based which would also open up the use and idea of natural poisons. The Beastmaster would be pretty self explanatory though in addition to simply summoning pets I imagine that pet attack and defense commands could be included into the tech tree.

I thought I might introduce one Tree per day and see what general discussion brings us.

Marksman tree

First of all in Diablo 2 each individual tree appeared to be divided into three branches. For this I have three branches in mind: Tasked Arrows, Strikes, and Melee. The first branch I’ll deal with is Tasked Arrows. This would be arrow spells that serve specific purposes. Please note I’m going out of my way to not rip off the Amazon tree.

Tasked Arrows
1: Barbed Arrow: This would act like cold arrows, and would be designed to slow the target.
2: Explosive Bolt: I imagine this to be a crowd clearer. It’s blast radius would throw back units, deal shrapnel damage, and possibly confusion.
3: Inferno Arrow: This would be a fire skill designed to cause havoc as the fire would spread between units.
4: Searing Arrow: This in essence an incineration spell. First a miss hit penalty would be allocated to a hit enemy. Units with low hit points would lose HP till they suffer a death by burting into flames and becoming a pile of smoldering ashes. Higher hit point units would receive a damage cap

Strikes
1: Called Shot: This would increase the damage and range capabilities of any normal shot
2: Multiple Shot: This is pulled directly from the Amazon bow tree.
3: Intuition: This would be a passive that modifies multiple shot. The idea is that you can set one of three choices for the multiple shot to seak out: the most deadly enemies, the weakest ones, or the ones closest to death.
4: Helm Breaker: Clean and simple a critical strike skill.

Melee / Last Resort
1: Unexpected strike: Autocast skill. When the character is attacked by a melee enemy he would draw a long dagger and attack the enemy.
2: Tempered Wood: Passive skill: Increases the range and the damage of bows.
3: Fend Off: Autocast skill. When attacked by a melee enemy the marksman can block the shot using his bow. The trade is the durability takes a hit and the bow must be repaired.
4: Arrow Catch: Passive Skill: X% of non magical ranged attacks are blocked

Please realize these are just a few ideas and I'm aware they overlap (how inventive can you be with an Archer). I have no real mind for synergies or the tree order of these. I’m open to any suggestions and I’ll be posting either the Stalker or Beastmaster builds in a few days.

 

[knightmawko]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

Alot of these sound like guild wars abilities, Caled Shot, Searing Arrow, Barbed Arrow, Multiple shot, I think Intuition is one, I havent played in a while. I remember multiple shot being an amazon ability to. Im not saying any og that is bad of course, I love Guild Wars.

This is a good idea, I wouldnt say let the ranger idea die though because often marksmen in mideivle periods were called rangers, for rather obviouse reasons.

I like the idea of using a different name, but I would say something les common, the Archer I thought of is rather similar to this, but I called mine the Nimrod. Its the name of a legendary old testament hunter, seems like a good idea because most people arnt like. "Oh, Nimrod, been there done that" It's more like, "Nimrod, hmm, whats that?"

 

[Barefoot Soldier]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

I’ve honestly never played Guild Wars. I guess it's just coincidence.

The reason why I say drop the ranger name is because it has the stigma of being a purely archer class. What I'm saying is that unlike the Amazon a Woodsman or Ranger whatever you might wish to call it could play a wider variety of roles then just ranged attack. I just think that Ranger in general is too high fantasy rather then gothic which hurts the idea. I think the name Woodsman while rather generic is wide enough to offer a greater variety of play possibilities.

I do like the sounds of Nimrod. It sounds more like a path or discipline which fits the tree idea very well.

 

[GoldenBird]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

Eh... woodsman sounds like a caveman named him imo... or a little 3 year old boy.

And Nimrod... it reminds me too much of nit-wit... or numb-rod... or whatever other possibilities there are.

The idea of the skills you have are interesting though.

 

[akboy]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

The reason why I say drop the ranger name is because it has the stigma of being a purely archer class. What I'm saying is that unlike the Amazon a Woodsman or Ranger whatever you might wish to call it could play a wider variety of roles then just ranged attack. I just think that Ranger in general is too high fantasy rather then gothic which hurts the idea. I think the name Woodsman while rather generic is wide enough to offer a greater variety of play possibilities.

I think when most people say they want a Ranger character, they're saying they want a character who specializes in attacking with missile weapons, like bows or throwing weapons. I thought the name was based on the idea of attacking at a range, not some high fantasy archetype.

 

[AkumaSlayer]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

I like this. I hope they go with Woodsman instead of Ranger - if they're making this class.

 

[NASE]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

Didn't anyone play or read dungeons and dragons?
A ranger is much more then just ranged combat, we have the archer for that. A ranger is a combination of ranged attack - usually bows - and simply melee attack - usually single or dual swords. That in combination with general survival techniques - something that is hard to implement in an action RPG - and nature abilities - Beastmaster being one of those abilities, healing an other.
And if you want, you can include some other aspects such as assassin skills like shadow skills. Eventually, he's kind of a jack of all trades.


Anyway, not really that important.
About the class, I like the general idea. Yet some of your chose skills seem quite strange. How are you going to implement Intuition? One point seeks out the most deadly, two points the weakest, etc. So then we have a skill with maximum 3 points, not much. A second thing I wonder, why not simply let runes take care of this? That's what they are for right?
And I think your autocast skills aren't a good idea. You don't want to be taken control out of your hand. What if you just want to run away and it attacks. D/e/a have the same property and have caused many deaths and annoyed people. I would simply make it a cast skills. And not change anything. It's a magic physical based attack that gives you a strong - perhaps slowing - attack without the need to change weapons or even have a switch weapon.

 

[Azymn]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

Sounds like the title should be "Let the Ranger name die."

 

[Barefoot Soldier]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

I think when most people say they want a Ranger character, they're saying they want a character who specializes in attacking with missile weapons, like bows or throwing weapons. I thought the name was based on the idea of attacking at a range, not some high fantasy archetype.

I was following the Diablo II standard and posted 12 spells and I'll admit freely I was stretching a lot of them. Quite frankly it's hard to be inventive with archer feats. However look at the 2nd screenshot on the top of the blizcast.

http://us.blizzard.com/blizzcast/archive/episode8.xml

The berserker tree for the Barbarian alone has 18 skills. Like I said I was stretching skills. Throwing knives, javelins, axes all of them could fill up the skill possibilities, and we would still have room for two more trees that are radically different from the Marksmen tree. The use of the name Marksman frees the class from having to chose a separate tree for separate ranged weapons. The beauty of the class is versatility that the Ranger possesses.

Not to mention a Ranger is not called a ranger because it uses ranged weapons.

rang*er
noun
A keeper of park, forest, or are of countryside.
A member of a body of armed highly trained infantryman.
A person or thing that wanders or ranges over a particular area or domain.

Hence why I said drop the name and use something generic like woodsman. Sorry if I sound like I'm biting your head off or being a snide, arrogant, prick, its unintentional and the lack of tone of voice is a pain.

 

[Barefoot Soldier]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

. About the class, I like the general idea. Yet some of your chose skills seem quite strange. How are you going to implement Intuition? One point seeks out the most deadly, two points the weakest, etc. So then we have a skill with maximum 3 points, not much. A second thing I wonder, why not simply let runes take care of this? That's what they are for right?
And I think your autocast skills aren't a good idea. You don't want to be taken control out of your hand. What if you just want to run away and it attacks. D/e/a have the same property and have caused many deaths and annoyed people. I would simply make it a cast skills. And not change anything. It's a magic physical based attack that gives you a strong - perhaps slowing - attack without the need to change weapons or even have a switch weapon.

Like I've said I was stretching for 12 skills and any number of these could be switched out with throwing weapon skills. The autocast I agree with, but I imagined those would be more newbie friendly skills.

Intuition I imagined it like this. We see that Diablo 3 has a tasks bar like wow. When you select intuition that skill icon would expand into a vertical column and you could hotkey lethal, weak, or death.

As for executing the spell I imagined clicking on a clear area of ground and having a shadow or an aoe circle, like some of the Warcraft III spells, showing up on the ground as a expanding circle and the computer executes the shot by the input you select. With additional skill points I imagine that the circle would grow larger and expand more quickly.

It might be a bit complex but after all I'm just dreaming.

And yes Azymn it really is more let the Ranger name die with the assumption of a ranged only unit.

 

[rCt Arbitur]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

I think Marksman work but Woodsman sounds sooooo boring. Ranger or Archer sounds the best IMO.

EDIT: Rogue sounds good too, they were my fav class in D1.

 

[Barefoot Soldier]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

I think Marksman work but Woodsman sounds sooooo boring. Ranger or Archer sounds the best IMO.

EDIT: Rogue sounds good too, they were my fav class in D1.

Call it whatever you Jolly well want but don't diminish an archetype that lends itself to much more then being just an archer.

 

[Barefoot Soldier]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

Stalker Tree

Today I’ll be looking at a 2nd tech tree named Stalker. I am aware that the name is taken from an AD&D 2nd rules subclass I just don’t care. I threw the marksman out first because it’s the most boring and the one I wanted to get out of the way first. This tech tree will follow three branches: Herbalist, Shadows. Weapon Master.

Herbalist
1:Apothecary: Through his expenditure of time outdoors and his disdain for visiting town the woodsman become versed in herbs and natural remedies.
- The Woodsman uses or shares a natural salve to heal wounds of himself or a party members.
2:Brewmaster: Further studies of herbs and plants has provided recipes for drinks that invigorate the Woodsmans mental facilities and adrenaline rushes.
- The Woodsman uses or shares a natural brew that restores the mana pool of himself or a party member
3:Alchemist: Through greater studies of the Woodsman has created three infuses. The creation of these infuses however exhausts his mental facilities for a period of time. All infuses have negative health benefits but provide increased stamina, fortitude, and strength. Note: Not more then one should be taken at any give time.
- Yellow Infuse: Increases the Woodsman natural speed. Negative 5% HP
- Blue Infuse: Increases the Woodsman agility (Dodge). Negative 10% HP
- Red Infuse: Increases the Woodsman attack speed, accuracy and damage. Negative 25% HP
- Cannot be recast till all Infuses are used.
4: Through his many experiments the Woodsman has often made himself sick. He has pursued these darker studies and has created multiple poisons that can be coated to any bladed or piercing weapon.
- Coats blades and ranged weapons with poison that lasts for X amount of time.

Shadows
1: Hide in Shadows: As Woodsmen are misanthropic they have learned to hide away in shadows and in foliage.
- Cloaks and is only revealed when he attacks or runs.
2: Stealth: As time passes the Woodsman becomes more skillful in in his movements and can easily track prey more quickly without giving away his position.
- Increases movement speed while cloaked - Passive
3: Shadow Strike: While Woodsman are quite honorable in battle there are times of desperation or times when they are simply outclassed and strike their enemies from the shadows. With practice they can return to the shadows after attacking.
- Attack bonus when attacking / Returning to shadows depends on weapon use (Range or Melee) Hide in Shadows, Stealth, and Shadow Strike expenditure.
4: Explosive Powder: In his extensive herbology studies the Woodsman discovered combinations with explosive potential. He has discovered that often times explosive powders can provide useful for startling enemies and with practice can make him truly invisible.
- Crowd Clearer at lower levels, with improvement the woodsman can walk through dispersed crowds.

Weapon Master
1: Sword and Shield: Is quite a popular weapons training among Woodsmen. Shields prove quite useful in the event that the Woodsman's lurking is detected.
- Increased defensive block - Shields smash after level X
2: Single Sword: Some Woodsmen spend their free time studying Kenjitsu, or the art of the sword. They only wield one sword as a point of honor. They make very precise strikes with great force.
- Increased attack damage - Dismembers enemies (disarm)
3: Sword And Dagger: Some Woodsmen train using a sword and a long dagger for quick kills and increased attack speed and versatility. Throwing their dagger when outnumbered is is a common practice to even the odds.
- Increased attack speed - Throw dagger instant kill or damage cap
4: Cloak and Shadow: Woodsmen use flamboyancy and their agility movements to distract and disorient their enemies often becoming more then just a man in their enemies eyes.
- Increased dodge attack - Phantasm (enemies attack each other)

I know none of these are anywhere near balanced and the level improvements of additional skills could be skills in and of themselves. That said the new Skill trees appear to have up to 18 skills so I’m sure some of these could become separate skills. I'll put up the Beastmaster tree in the next few days.

 

[akboy]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

The berserker tree for the Barbarian alone has 18 skills. Like I said I was stretching skills. Throwing knives, javelins, axes all of them could fill up the skill possibilities, and we would still have room for two more trees that are radically different from the Marksmen tree. The use of the name Marksman frees the class from having to chose a separate tree for separate ranged weapons. The beauty of the class is versatility that the Ranger possesses.

Not to mention a Ranger is not called a ranger because it uses ranged weapons.

rang*er
noun
A keeper of park, forest, or are of countryside.
A member of a body of armed highly trained infantryman.
A person or thing that wanders or ranges over a particular area or domain.

Hence why I said drop the name and use something generic like woodsman. Sorry if I sound like I'm biting your head off or being a snide, arrogant, prick, its unintentional and the lack of tone of voice is a pain.

The Amazon in D2 wasn't constrained to only bows, so I think it's a given that if D3 has a Amazon-type character, it won't be bow-only either.

Many people have used the name Ranger to talk about the character that will fit a similar role as the Amazon's (they don't say 'Amazon' because we know the class won't be coming back). But I don't think anyone is thinking of a keeper of a park, a trained infantryman or someone that wanders.

I was using the term 'Ranger' to refer to a class that uses ranged weapons.

 

[Snarf]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

The Stalker tree looks interesting and fun to play, very creative, i just think that the stealth should be implemented in a way so that it is not like stealth in World of Warcraft

:nod:

 

[Barefoot Soldier]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

If this were to come to fruition i can't honestly say I'd be at all interested in playing the Marksman tree.

I would also like to say that I have played neither WoW or Guild Wars so any stolen ideas are unintentional.

 

[Galiphile]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

I think when most people say they want a Ranger character, they're saying they want a character who specializes in attacking with missile weapons, like bows or throwing weapons. I thought the name was based on the idea of attacking at a range, not some high fantasy archetype.

Common sense is lost on some people.

 

[Barefoot Soldier]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

The Amazon in D2 wasn't constrained to only bows, so I think it's a given that if D3 has a Amazon-type character, it won't be bow-only either.

Many people have used the name Ranger to talk about the character that will fit a similar role as the Amazon's (they don't say 'Amazon' because we know the class won't be coming back). But I don't think anyone is thinking of a keeper of a park, a trained infantryman or someone that wanders.

I was using the term 'Ranger' to refer to a class that uses ranged weapons.

That's fine and dandy that you were using the term to refer to an Archer class. I think that's what most people think of when they hear the term Ranger. However the class lends itself to multiple archetypes.

 

[akboy]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

That's fine and dandy that you were using the term to refer to an Archer class. I think that's what most people think of when they hear the term Ranger. However the class lends itself to multiple archetypes.

I never said I was referring to an Archer class. I said I use "Ranger" to refer to a class that uses ranged weapons, which include bows, crossbows and throwing weapons, just like the Amazon. And the Amazon could fit multiple archetypes.

What exactly is your argument again? Do you have a problem with the term "Ranger" or the archetype it represents? What archetype do you think it represents?

 

[Barefoot Soldier]

Re: Let the Ranger idea die (Woodsman).

What exactly is your argument again? Do you have a problem with the term "Ranger" or the archetype it represents? What archetype do you think it represents?

First I have a slight issue with the name ranger as it is commonly associate with high fantasy rather then gothic. It's a meshing problem with the universe. Personally I've always loved the Ranger class. I just don't think the name fits.

My main issue is with people using the term ranger to refer to only an archer or ranged class, and there by ignoring all the other attributes of the class. While rangers are archers they are also beast tamers, trackers etc. The reason I suggested the name woodsman is to get people to think about a ranger without the archer connotation that it has picked up; probably would have worked better had I started with the beastmaster or stalker tree instead of the archer tree.

Yes the Amazon is more then just a ranged hero. In fact right now I'm exploring that for the first time in DII. The reason why I'm suggesting three separate uniquely different trees is that the Amazon as a fighter is inhibited because the logical choice for melee is the spear, as its the only non ranged skilled weapon for her.