Latest Diablo 3 News
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Least Viable Skills And Their Niche Uses?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Xios, Jan 16, 2017.

  1. Xios

    Xios Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    226
    Trophy Points:
    63
    A bit of a preamble, so bear with me here.

    So I've been mulling over the idea for a long term project, one that will sort of encapsulate and coincidentally further a lot of goals I have with playing Diablo 2 again, particularly with the benefits of single player. I've been wanting to explore the breadth of builds for a while and to play outside of my comfort zone and enjoy a bit of experimentation.

    That being said, I was considering the possibility of trying to utilize each and every skill in one way or another, across however many characters that may take. Now, this requires a lot of clarification and qualifying just what "using" each skill means. There's a big difference between maxing something as a synergy, using a one point wonder, and both maxing plus using a skill.

    And while sure, the most obvious answer would be "You're not really dedicated to using something unless you're maxing it." there's not only some legitimate arguments outside of one point wonders (Any of the "thread the needle" type ideal levels, like Shockwave, Valkyrie; effects with diminishing returns, specific cases like 4Pt Zeal, etc) plenty I could see as just cutting your nose to spite your face-- like are you really getting a unique gameplay experience using Fire Bolt over Fire Ball? Probably not.

    Yet even without fully defining that, I feel like there's a few skills that cannot easily fall into even that broad definition too. What place do such skills have in your mind? For the sake of argument, assume you have access to whatever gear you'd like, if that is any consolation in order to maximize usefulness.

    So a few questions to everyone here:
    • What skills do you find very little use for, escaping all three definitions above (or whatever else you can think of) and would ultimately be the hardest for a concept like this?
    • If you were to pick a definition (one or more) to qualify "using" a skill for a challenge like this, what would you go for?
    • Masochism aside, do you believe that some skills/builds will always overlap to the point of redundancy? This is mostly in the case of (almost) strictly better skills (Think using say, Ice Bolt vs. Ice Blast).
    • General thoughts on this concept? Surely the people doing SeptSepts and such probably had to dig pretty deep to find contrasting builds, so I'm sure quite a bit of it is retreading old grounds.
    Disclaimer: Basing this off 1.13/1.14 era.

    Some initials thoughts of my own to bounce off of..

    Skills that'd be difficult to be more than one point wonders:
    • Slow Missiles: Pumping a low mana, situational skill just for duration.
    • D/A/E: More so just odd to see them maxed, due to diminishing returns.
    • Dragon Flight: If I recall correctly, this skill has locked frames making it awkward as a main skill.
    • [Debatable] Mind Blast
    • Many Necromancer Crowd Control Curses (Terror, Confuse, Attract): Also a more Debatable inclusion for Dim Vision here.
    • Find Potion
    • Increased Stamina
    • Sorceress Cold Armors
    • (Actively Using) Telekinesis
    • [Debatable] Carrion Vine / Solar Creeper
    Skills that seem trumped directly by other skills, usually those they synergize with:
    • [Debatable] Power and Lightning Strike vs. CS/LF
    • Cold Arrow (and probably Ice Arrow) vs. Freezing Arrow
    • Fire Arrow vs. Exploding Arrow
    • [Debatable] All the individual element skills of Phoenix Strike vs. Phoenix Strike
    • Psychic Hammer vs. Mind Blast
    • [Debatable] Poison Explosion vs. Corpse Explosion
    • Weaken vs. Decrepify
    • [Debatable] Grim Ward vs. Howl
    • Bash vs. Stun
    • [Debatable] Stun vs. War Cry
    • [Debatable] Sacrifice vs. Zeal
    • Prayer vs. Cleansing/Meditation
    • [Debatable] Resist X (Actively Using Aura) vs. Salvation
    • Ice Bolt vs. Ice Blast/Glacial Spike
    • Fire Bolt vs. Fire Ball
    • [Debatable] Inferno vs. Fire Wall
    • Blaze vs. Fire Wall
    • [Debatable] Druid Fire Skills vs. Themselves
    • [Debatable] Arctic Blast vs. Other Windy Skills
    • [Debatable] Twister vs. Tornado
    • [Debatable] Druid Primary Summons vs. Themselves
    Skills that seem hard to justify using at all:
    • [Debatable] Conversion/Thorns: Putting them together to show I'm aware of the nutty attempt at synergies here, heh.
    • Sanctuary
    • Spirit of Barbs

    I'm sure I missed something during my once through or took a few things for granted, but I tried to play it relatively safe.

    Let me know your thoughts.
     
    T72on1 likes this.
  2. thefranklin

    thefranklin Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,607
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    135
    Good post, and I like your idea and fully support it!


    • What skills do you find very little use for, escaping all three definitions above (or whatever else you can think of) and would ultimately be the hardest for a concept like this?

    I honestly don't see a skill in the game that can't be chosen because it would be absolutely useless, given the correct situation. Even Increased Stamina would be nice to have for a zero vit barb. Sure you could get around it with a simple potion, but you could say that for several other skills, too. Sure, there are a lot of skills I won't ever use because I think they suck or I just plain don't like them, Impale I am looking at you. But each skill still would hurt the bad guys or help yourself in some way or another.

    • If you were to pick a definition (one or more) to qualify "using" a skill for a challenge like this, what would you go for?

    Using a skill correctly for the right situation. I wouldn't say you have to completely max it out to use it. Does zeal really become better by adding 16 more points to it? Will your experience using it change one bit? No. You will have a tad better damage (or a lot, depending on the rest of your skills) and a tad better attack rating (or a lot, again depending on the rest of your build). I also wouldn't throw out one point wonders. So what if you don't get great use out of adding 19 more points to telekinesis? It still helps the merc out, and I play quicker by constantly picking up potions and clicking waypoints with it. I am sad teleporting around with other characters and not having telekinesis, but would never add more than one point to it on a sorceress. Sanctuary is one of my favorite paladin auras, and I religiously use it against the undead. I have no problem turning it off when facing non-undead.

    • Masochism aside, do you believe that some skills/builds will always overlap to the point of redundancy? This is mostly in the case of (almost) strictly better skills (Think using say, Ice Bolt vs. Ice Blast).

    Yes, at end game there is redundancy. I don't really see that as a problem. You use a skill for the correct situation. if your character hitting level 6 ends that specific skill's ideal situation, so be it. There isn't much you can do except to give yourself artificial restrictions. if that is what you want to do to use every skill, that is fine. The Random Tournaments (and many, many other tournaments) can accomplish restrictions rather well.

    • General thoughts on this concept? Surely the people doing SeptSepts and such probably had to dig pretty deep to find contrasting builds, so I'm sure quite a bit of it is retreading old grounds.

    There are a lot of builds out there. There was just a thread on this (edit, I see you started it, so I guess this is redundant). I think there are a lot more useful skills than you are giving the game credit for. Additionally, some skills are more useful when used by other classes, or at least more available. Like weaken vs decripify, you can make an ipdr build using weaken (from Soul Drainer's) because decripify isn't as readily available to non necromancers.

    Some comments on your other stuff, trying to wrap this up:
    [Debatable] All the individual element skills of Phoenix Strike vs. Phoenix Strike
    -Please play a phoenix strike assassin and get back to me on this one. Especially dual claw.

    • Cold Arrow (and probably Ice Arrow) vs. Freezing Arrow
    • Fire Arrow vs. Exploding Arrow
    -Cold/Fire arrow (and magic) have different damage mechanics based on your physical damage, as opposed to skill level. So you can get a lot of elemental damage with a very small skill point investment.

    Dragon Flight: If I recall correctly, this skill has locked frames making it awkward as a main skill.
    -This is a great finisher, and can do a lot of damage, hits one enemy anywhere on the screen. it is a very slow skill, so not meant to be spammed, but used in conjunction with the assassin charge up skills. I have seen this maxed in pvm and pvp.

    [Debatable] Inferno vs. Fire Wall
    -jiansonz would disagree. Inferno is his favorite skill for killing Duriel, who chases you...
     
    pharphis and Xios like this.
  3. Xios

    Xios Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    226
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The argument with one point wonders wasn't arguing against their efficacy. They are one point wonders for a reason after all. It was mostly just brought up for the theme/challenge that I mentioned, whether it would be imperative that these skills are maxed before it's considered that you are "using" it or playing around it. Has more subjectively to do with the concept of the challenge than any sort of objective standpoint or looking down on skills that only need the single point, as I don't think there's any inherent problem to that. Basically I was trying to gauge where the line between one point wonder and gimmick were-- which lines up with what you said, basically just using skills where appropriate and perhaps just how often that situation arises.

    And yes, I was the one who made that thread, in relation to this concept. Essentially I was starting to think about the overlap (or potential lack thereof) between the entire roster of skills and what are the common builds (the other thread). So it was a matter of distinction as to how much of a difference would there be if my long term project was to do all the major hits compared to trying to do everything.

    I'll fully admit that Assassins are currently my primary area of limited knowledge. I'm trying to catch up now with a Kicker currently and plan to hit the rest of the major ones as well as I can tell it's a fairly large gap in my understanding. The other piece I'm missing a lot of is using non-class skill based characters, usually just due to a lack of items/wealth on the Realm. Hopefully both will be resolved before long.

    You have a point with the elemental arrows, I suppose it'd be more a combined argument of "those as one points / low points vs. dedicating to maxing the higher level abilities" which doesn't really fit into the three options I had listed.

    My main point of contention for putting Inferno/Arctic Blast there was just the matter that their numbers in practice turn out to be a lot lower than their values on paper-- I'm trying to remember the exact reasons for this, I'll have to check back on that. It's true that doesn't necessarily put them out of consideration, just makes them seem less flattering. I'm sure it could be argued that if you're against physical immunes with no way to break it, a Windy might pull out the latter too, as far as situational use is concerned.

    Ultimately though this thread wasn't meant to be me complaining about build diversity, I think it's fairly decent. And yes of course redundancy is frequently going to happen in pretty much any game with progression, particularly those with skill trees. It should be noted that a lot of the skills in the "something might be better than it later" are synergies, which mechanically helps to support the "Use this until its improvement comes around" and many of the one point wonders are prerequisites to more skills people want as well. So for a person who is not trying to emphatically use every skill for artifical reasons, the system in place handles redundancy fairly well by not making you feel awful for using those skills or investing down skill trees.

    Mostly I'm trying to set my sights on a long term project and I'm twisting in the wind, hence my ramblings posts/threads as I try to figure out where to land. I figured rather than keep it all internalized better to try and make a discussion of it or at least give someone something to read at work, haha.
     
  4. Dezrok

    Dezrok Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
    Messages:
    438
    Likes Received:
    419
    Trophy Points:
    141
    I don't see why this is a 'most obvious answer', as you point out yourself. I'd suggest not using this as an assumption for your concept.

    Given that Fire Bolt does no splash damage I would think that the gameplay experience would be very different. Potentially terrifyingly different!

    • What skills do you find very little use for, escaping all three definitions above (or whatever else you can think of) and would ultimately be the hardest for a concept like this?
    Looking at the Mat/Pat/Guardian thread you can find almost all skills used as an integral part of a build by someone, somewhere along the D2 journey. The ones I have trouble conceiving a use for (except as very short-term, low-level fillers) would be:
    • Find Potion
    • Psychic Hammer
    • Blade Sentinel
    • Solar Creeper
    • Spirit Wolf
    • Spirit of Barbs
    (i'm sure someone will come up with a use for these)

    • Masochism aside, do you believe that some skills/builds will always overlap to the point of redundancy? This is mostly in the case of (almost) strictly better skills (Think using say, Ice Bolt vs. Ice Blast).
    I'm pretty sure someone made a max Ice Bolt build and the damage was insane. Anything is possible and very little is redundant (although I am masochistic). Seems to me you're wanting to try all those little used skills but then looking for excuses to not use those skills?
    • General thoughts on this concept? Surely the people doing SeptSepts and such probably had to dig pretty deep to find contrasting builds, so I'm sure quite a bit of it is retreading old grounds.
    Why not just pick one little used skill from each class and develop a build around it. Do those and you'll have completed a sept, as well as have used plenty of other skills along the way. If you still have enthusiasm for the idea pick 7 new skills that you still haven't used and and keep going until you've ticked them all off.
     
    Xios likes this.
  5. JoeBruce

    JoeBruce Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    171
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Agreed.

    Two "sister" skills that are somewhat broken and I wish would get fixed come to mind: Inferno and Arctic Blast. I don't fully recall, but there is something wrong with their range and/or radius. Still, they are functional (my windy certainly kills PIs faster when he sprays arctic blast at an enemy), and it would be a fun challenge to make a build using these guys.

    I second the cold/fire arrow points - I keep on the lookout for a nice rare shadow bow that I could use on a full-dex amazon who takes advantage of the physical damage conversion from these two skills.

    Spirit Wolves teleport to enemies. Sure the other druid summons do more damage, and you could just recast them, but the teleport function makes them unique. Couple it with max ravens for awesome % chance to blind (Insane Wayne did this on a naked build of his).

    Just the other day I thought about making a Sorceress with max teleport for a virtually zero mana cost skill; maybe good idea for an enchantress? The sorceress cold armor synergize each other, and could also be beneficial for an enchantress. Just wear physical damage reducing items, you'll be fine...

    Great discussion to flesh out some builds and inspire some folks to use their creativity.
     
    Xios likes this.
  6. Korlic

    Korlic Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    615
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Artic Blast is just so useless compared to Hurricane. It also have a bug like Inferno so they do very little damage. And I guess Inferno is also pretty useless :)
     
  7. Xios

    Xios Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    226
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I mostly meant this for the lesser used skills and situational use. If you use something silly to max like Slow Missiles, someone, somewhere will swoop in and go "Well it wasn't a real character using Slow Missiles because you didn't max it." Even though gameplay presumably wouldn't have changed.

    And like that example is extremely pedantic, but say, using a character that maxes Teleport rather than leaving one point in it might actually shift how you play, or being a character who maxes Smite instead of say a Zealot who uses the 1Pt version for certain fights.

    Just in general this was sort of a jab at the "if it's worth doing it's worth overdoing" mentality or more accurately "how far is too far?" when it comes to this sort of concept.

    One of the hopes for the thread was to get the discussion going to see where people draw these lines and the concepts of using these skills and what they see as worth the exploration. It wasn't necessarily where I'm currently residing, just sort of an observation that things can be cranked to 11 for potential no value.

    Hah, I'm not yet a jumper on a ledge hoping to be talked down. :p Mostly it was just something I was thinking about while working on other characters and decided it might be interesting to have a conversation about.

    I think three or four people (including myself) at this point have mentioned Inferno and Arctic Blast. I have to do more snooping around when I'm not at work but I believe it's due to NextDelay changing how it's functioning. Essentially it's not constantly/evenly applying its damage, instead it's something like every three frames. Less enticing as mentioned but I have a feeling both are still useable if you're dedicated enough.
     
  8. Dezrok

    Dezrok Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2012
    Messages:
    438
    Likes Received:
    419
    Trophy Points:
    141
    The builds I've seen Arctic Blast used as a main skill use it to chill rather than to damage. InsaneWayne used it on his naked Druid Summoner to great effect. For one (or a few points) you get a long chill duration for little mana cost. The fact that it doesn't need a large skill point investment is a bonus when you are trying to max other skills. It then becomes the skill you spam while your summons/merc do the killing. Will be interesting to see if you can make it work as a damage skill.

    And so Arctic Blast becomes another instance of not needing to max something to have it as a main skill. However, I get your point on the mentality of maxing skills just for the sake of maxing them (I'm not sure that that attitude is all that common on the SPF?). For some skills maxing them does makes a difference however. Like your example of Teleport (which only really makes sense if you don't have large amounts of +skills combined with a small mana pool and low mana regen), another would be Mind Blast where the damage and increased chance of confuse can become something to base gameplay around when maxed. To my mind some skills only make sense as really useful when you impose some pretty arbitrary game restrictions, such as playing without gear or as is often done in SPF Tourneys.

    I guess for many of the skills the only way to really know how much is enough is to try it out ... (hint, hint);)
     
  9. Xios

    Xios Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    226
    Trophy Points:
    63
    My main problem with using Arctic Blast as CC for a Summoner is that assuming you are primarily a summoner, the whole Shockbear angle seems like a more viable method (with relatively low skill investment, if decently geared or modestly leveled) of giving you something productive to do while your party whacks people to death. I'm sure in a sort of ultra-budget where points are tight (say you're going extremely heavy into summoning), I could see it though.

    That same logic makes me think you'd want to be in caster form. Some sort of setup for one of the fire skills perhaps? That'd be a cute one-two punch. Trying to make it so that both are viable damage options might get a little cramped point wise though as there's lots of synergies available.

    Of course it wasn't to suggest someone on SPF would be that person, more just the nagging counter of jimmity cricket on my shoulder.

    Yeah I'm positive there were better examples than the ones I listed, was just trying to snap together examples. I guess one example would be Freezing Arrow as it can transition from a CC move (for say a Strafer) to a damage move once dedicated (Ice Maiden or what have you).

    Arbitrary restrictions can certainly help, that's true. I definitely enjoyed the lazy (and extra bumps of -EPR) perks of maxing out Lower Resist on my Poison Nova Necromancer, rather than say, having a skeleton wall.

    I'm now visualizing some montage of an Assassin very slowly murdering someone with a maxed out Psychic Hammer. I guess you could utilize Cloak of Shadows to use it in relative peace, and double down on the hammers with a high level shadow warrior... does Psychic Hammer use FCR or IAS? Hmm...
     
  10. Gripphon

    Gripphon Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    3,127
    Likes Received:
    1,910
    Trophy Points:
    248
    As a player who is not into using skills for a sake of using them, but to use them only if they offer best optimization for a character in a certain area, I'll try to give some insights from that point of view.

    There is also example of Wake of Inferno vs Wake of Fire.
    WoI damage seems to be incredibly inconsistent because it will simply miss all moving targets around them which makes those traps hardly useful in comparison to WoF which can cover huge area and does not really miss targets. WoF does have its issues as well, but is vastly superior to WoI.

    Regarding Arctic Blast, I actually used it and maxed it, surprisingly, for efficiency sake. Character I played was windy who ran AT on p1 as fast as he could. Initially I took maxed Oak, but the thing is, you don't need him maxed at all. Windy is just too safe for p1 running like that. Then I noticed those physically immune monsters are annoying to take down since only Hurricane can damage them (which is nicely boosted by Infinity I used on a merc) and tried to play with 1pt Oak + maxed Arctic Blast to realize it made me go faster because killing those immunes was easier. I could wait for hurricane to do a job, but why wait if you can kick them faster with Arctic Blast? Even 1 pt blast was fine, but it was just slightly faster with maxed.

    Regarding sorceress cold armors, I also used to put more points into those for a sake of efficiency. It is namely for a CS running blizzard sorc where you really don't have to max cold mastery since most monsters don't have over... can't remember, 130 cold resist? I usually end up putting like 5-6 points into mastery with those sorcs. You put rest points into one of armors to get higher defense. It can actually make a difference between having 5k or 7k defense when it comes to how often you get hit because of it. And if there is nothing better to put points into... why not. Staying alive power. Second example is HC LK sorc where I've put many points to armor to make her really have solid defense to decrease any chance of getting killed. Other than those two examples, those armors I didn't even use outside pvp.

    Don't have any other example of using some less viable skills for something good. So yeah. Even when used, most of those skills end up to be side-kick thing to complement something more powerful. Like supportive skills or something. You don't have to max the skill to justify its great usage. Even some other insanely powerful skills like battle orders are not always maxed. Finding a good use for a skills is good enough, even if it is just 1 point wonder.
     
    Xios likes this.
  11. thefranklin

    thefranklin Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,607
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    135
    For your purposes, I think you could break skills into some groups:
    1. A group where adding more points always helps,
    2. A group where adding more points doesn't always help. The first group is obvious, more points equals more damage or more utility. The 2nd one can easily vary on how many points, from 1 to whatever, but that would change for every build. For example, slow missiles would be useless past 5 points on a build because you always kill all of the monsters within that time frame. Another build might only make use out of 1 point in slow missiles because of massive plus skills. Curses could have points added to get desired coverage or curse length. Teleport is in a unique situation. You could add points into teleport until your mana regeneration equals mana consumption. The number of skills into teleport would change based on your gear and how many points you have in warmth. You could possibly add too many points to where you don't see benefit (cough multishot cough). Since it can get complicated real fast, I would just lump all of those skills into the same group.
    3. A group of skills that will always be trumped by another skill (ice bolt, might, etc).
     
    Xios likes this.
  12. T72on1

    T72on1 Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    4,891
    Likes Received:
    3,990
    Trophy Points:
    236
    Cool post !!! Really nice.

    Some thoughts of my own:

    - Inferno and Arctic Blast: the thing with those skills, is that they should be doing damage every frame, so that is the listed damage, but it turns out they only do damage every other frame, which makes their damage much lower than it is supposed to be. See this article on Inferno for full details. As a consequence, Arctic Blast still has it's uses, as explained by Gripphon, because there's not much alternatives, but Inferno gets trumped by too many other Fire skills to bother.
    - Wake of Inferno vs Wake of Fire: I disagree with @Gripphon here. They just both have their situational use. WoF is better most of the time, but against big, stationary targets, WoI rules.
     
  13. Gripphon

    Gripphon Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    3,127
    Likes Received:
    1,910
    Trophy Points:
    248
    Really? I didn't test that on a stationary targets which is true, but by my calculations based on my knowledge of both traps shows me this: assuming proper assassin with 15 all skills and at least 5 traps, damage of each trap would be:

    WoF: 936-1058 (997 average per shot)
    WoI: 2573-2821 (2697, they say damage is listed per second and is not bugged like Inferno)

    Next step: don't know does WoI have some strange shenanigans in damage shots, but WoF does have. As per tests, WoF always does at least twice as much damage than listed with potential to do 3 times more (because its damage is done in doses, and one single wave of it has 5 doses of damage which are not applied completely due to 4 frames next delay, so only 2-3 at most are applied. 90% time its two.)
    WoF fires once in 17 frames, WoI damage is listed per second...

    Calculating everything together, we get that single WoF has dps of ~2932, while single WoI does 2697.

    Now next step, WoF stacks with diminishing returns because of that 4 frame delay which means 3 WoF traps WON'T do 3 times as much dps than a single one, but 2 WoFs are still in the region where they actually do nearly twice as much dps as single WoF. 4 WoFs do very similar dps as 3 WoFs and there is no point in putting 5 WoF's out anyway.
    My tests have shown that 3 WoFs roughly do ~2.5 times as much damage than a single WoF.

    Going by logic of 3 WoFs maximum, dps of WoF traps would be maximized at ~7330.

    To my knowledge WoI should stack normally which means 5 WoI do dps of 13485, nearly twice as much than a WoF. But I have no idea how long do those traps last, I just know WoF is out fast and you have to replace them with a rhythm in between Fireblasts.

    So, if everything is like that, then yes, WoI is indeed superior trap to use if you manage to keep boss rock solid in place AND if you really stack that trap up having at least 4 of them shooting at target simultaneously. Actually I think that most beneficial combination is to use 2 WoF + 3 WoI or 3 WoF + 2 WoI traps instead of going full house of WoI because 3 WoFs are just as good as 3 WoI pretty much while 2 are even superior.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  14. T72on1

    T72on1 Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    4,891
    Likes Received:
    3,990
    Trophy Points:
    236
    My experience only comes from playing a fire Trapper through the game, not a detailed test. O yes, and from this excellent guide. But like most things in D2, it will also at least partially come down to personal taste.
     
  15. Grape

    Grape Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,088
    Likes Received:
    2,759
    Trophy Points:
    315
    Interesting topic. I'm also trying to use wide variety of skills and items (says a man who almost always uses very similar charm sets...) on my characters. Surprisingly many skills can be entirely viable on their own, if put enough effort on them. Rest are great one to few point wonders, and only few are not needed without specific setting, such as tournament environments.

    Even Inferno and Arctic Blast can be the main killers, even quite good ones. I have also used AB with a MFing Wind Druid the way Gripphon described, works great.
     
  16. Timinator

    Timinator Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    616
    Likes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    130
    There is also that other skill not mentioned in the skill tab, sobriety. Having your reflexs impaired and trying to time your potions let alone positioning and skills could be interesting. Please play at your own risk and within your local laws :)
     
    T72on1 likes this.
  17. ranagrande

    ranagrande Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I can't help with the middle of your list, but I know good uses for the first and last.

    Find Potion is good for, you know, finding potions, but it's real value is in situational utility. It's cheap enough to spam and a monster that has had Find Potion used on it can't be resurrected. It can make a big difference against a pack of champion shamans or something.

    Spirit of Barbs is best used by a Necromancer with the Bramble armor. Get an army of skeletons or revives, summon the Spirit of Barbs, cast Amplify Damage on your enemies, and watch them kill themselves. It's not really that good of a strategy, but it's fun!
     
  18. Crux97

    Crux97 Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Oops wrong thread sorry
     
  19. Gripphon

    Gripphon Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    3,127
    Likes Received:
    1,910
    Trophy Points:
    248
    But, the question of usage is when you compare it to Find Item which gives everything you said plus also gives a chance at finding useful item, not just potions. Apart from having higher chance to find potions only and being 5 mana cheaper, Find Potion is simply outshined by Find Item in every way and is therefore not really used beyond level 12.
     
  20. Korlic

    Korlic Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    615
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Haven't played Windy that much, but wouldn't eth Reapers be the best Merc weapon? or is it only on higher player settings?
     

Share This Page