Leap = 2x FHR length? Is leap really a necessity for BvC? <

d00m2k

Diabloii.Net Member
Leap = 2x FHR length? Is leap really a necessity for BvC?

I read in KungFu's Barb guide that the knockback from leap puts your opponent in hitrecovery 2x as long as normal hit recovery. Is this true?

I was able to abuse my buddy's BvC this weekend, and really enjoyed it. However against melee opponents, leap is pretty useless. Against pub casters, it's great. However, against people with the right gear (fast hit recovery), leap seemed pretty useless. They would recover way to fast for me to teleport and WW (even when putting on more FCR). I actually had better success against them NOT leaping, because leap forecasts your next move so often. And even when I didn't tele after leap, and instead tried to trick them, they teleported anyway after the leap.

The reason I bring this up is because I'm thinking of making my own barb. I'm leaning more towards a BvA that uses enigma. I could go with essentially a BVB build skill-wise (20 WW, 20 Mastery, 20 BO, 20 Shout, rest in Iron Skin). I'm reasoning with myself about leap:

Against opponents that don't have the necessar fast hit recovery: leap is a tremendous advantage, almost guaranteeing a win.

Against opponents who have the hit recovery, and understand the matchup: leap is near worthless. It forecasts your next move. And even if you try to trick them by leaping and not teleing, maybe running or leaping again and teleing, etc. they still just tele after a leap in case and you're back to square one.

Maybe you guys can convince me otherwise. It seems against the better opponents, leap isn't worth it.
 

De4dEyE

Diabloii.Net Member
Leap then NL with unsummon. Wait a bit, then tele on them and blah blah.. Leap is useful even against 86 fhr opponents, and absolutely screws those with less FHR. And of course it'll forcast your move. Any Barb worth half a damn generally do only 3 things against the majority of casters - leap, tele and WW.
 

SicHalo

Diabloii.Net Member
Leap is always needed, even vs high fhr opponments the stun can give u just enought time to get a unsummon namelock and then use a delayed tele attack.

U will need leap to catch a half decent caster anyway.
 

morotsjos

Banned
d00m2k said:
I read in KungFu's Barb guide that the knockback from leap puts your opponent in hitrecovery 2x as long as normal hit recovery. Is this true?

I was able to abuse my buddy's BvC this weekend, and really enjoyed it. However against melee opponents, leap is pretty useless. Against pub casters, it's great. However, against people with the right gear (fast hit recovery), leap seemed pretty useless. They would recover way to fast for me to teleport and WW (even when putting on more FCR). I actually had better success against them NOT leaping, because leap forecasts your next move so often. And even when I didn't tele after leap, and instead tried to trick them, they teleported anyway after the leap.

The reason I bring this up is because I'm thinking of making my own barb. I'm leaning more towards a BvA that uses enigma. I could go with essentially a BVB build skill-wise (20 WW, 20 Mastery, 20 BO, 20 Shout, rest in Iron Skin). I'm reasoning with myself about leap:

Against opponents that don't have the necessar fast hit recovery: leap is a tremendous advantage, almost guaranteeing a win.

Against opponents who have the hit recovery, and understand the matchup: leap is near worthless. It forecasts your next move. And even if you try to trick them by leaping and not teleing, maybe running or leaping again and teleing, etc. they still just tele after a leap in case and you're back to square one.

Maybe you guys can convince me otherwise. It seems against the better opponents, leap isn't worth it.
done correctly it's basically impossible to escape leap+tele/ww. practice more.
 

matchuk

Diabloii.Net Member
SicHalo said:
Leap is always needed, even vs high fhr opponments the stun can give u just enought time to get a unsummon namelock and then use a delayed tele attack.

U will need leap to catch a half decent caster anyway.
i tried that vs a necro today but this is what ended up happening, im sure he was 86 fhr i would leap and quickly get a unsummon nl but as soon as i leaped he would tp back and spam bs... and i couldnt really use the unsummon nl cos his out of my screen

any help?
 

morotsjos

Banned
matchuk said:
i tried that vs a necro today but this is what ended up happening, im sure he was 86 fhr i would leap and quickly get a unsummon nl but as soon as i leaped he would tp back and spam bs... and i couldnt really use the unsummon nl cos his out of my screen

any help?
you mean he teleported off your minimap?
in either case you will hit him while he's teleporting if you time it correctly.
 

SicHalo

Diabloii.Net Member
yeah good timing is required for unsummon name lock as stated above u have to time it when he has finished teleing etc.

Also 86% fhr on a nec is not the hardest its when they raise to the next bp ur in trouble, 140% fhr rite?

Wot ever it is this usally mean ur leap is completely useless, however very few necs walk with the kinda of fhr.
 

matchuk

Diabloii.Net Member
how far can the nl be held, meaning that i can tele rite ontop of him.. always wanted to test it.. i figured it was only if u could see him on screen
 

morotsjos

Banned
matchuk said:
how far can the nl be held, meaning that i can tele rite ontop of him.. always wanted to test it.. i figured it was only if u could see him on screen
you will keep namelock until opponent gets invisible on your minimap, i.e. ~3 screens.
 

comicalflop

Diabloii.Net Member
morotsjos said:
done correctly it's basically impossible to escape leap+tele/ww. practice more.
Way back when (like 3-4 months ago) I had a wind druid for MFing, I dueled a barb for fun and he was the first BvC I ever met, so I was very surpised. I am not the best dueler since I don't PvP alot/at all, and I survived 3 of his leap+tele+WW. I left because i knew I was outmatched, but me, a noob dueler survived 3 of his attempts to kill me (they were successful WW's too, dropped me down to practically 0 life) so from personal experience I don't believe that is the case.
 

morotsjos

Banned
comicalflop said:
Way back when (like 3-4 months ago) I had a wind druid for MFing, I dueled a barb for fun and he was the first BvC I ever met, so I was very surpised. I am not the best dueler since I don't PvP alot/at all, and I survived 3 of his leap+tele+WW. I left because i knew I was outmatched, but me, a noob dueler survived 3 of his attempts to kill me (they were successful WW's too, dropped me down to practically 0 life) so from personal experience I don't believe that is the case.
he hit you, so obviously you couldn't escape right?
 

mainaman

Diabloii.Net Member
for dueling necros also helps to have more fcr, 63 fcr bp can be obtained with griffon.
I dueled one with 152 fhr/125 fcr and it was practically impossible to nl telle on him with 40 fcr. as soon as i put on griffon i was able to get kills on him
 

morotsjos

Banned
d00m2k said:
Perhaps it was my cast rate. I'm not sure what I was using at the time.
obviously you cant expect to catch everything on your first try. minimizing waste of time between leap and tele is key and must be repeated 10000 times just for your nervous system to recognize and remember the movement.
 

BierWiser

Diabloii.Net Member
Is namelocking when you just hold down on a person and teleport around, I need some information on namelocking.
 

matchuk

Diabloii.Net Member
BierWiser said:
Is namelocking when you just hold down on a person and teleport around, I need some information on namelocking.
yeah namelocking is when u target a spell on them by clicking their name, u remain holding on the click so they are still targetted then u can switch to tele then to whirl
 

d00m2k

Diabloii.Net Member
The question still remains, does the leap knockback put opponents into twice as long hit recovery?
 

d00m2k

Diabloii.Net Member
After dueling for another couple weeks, again I'm not so sure leap is a necessity for BvCs.

Assuming you play against people who have the gear, and thus the hit recovery, to compete with you, leaps use is marginalized.

When they have the cast rate that is so fast it's terribly difficult to get a NL on them and they're always off your screen, leap isn't going to help. So they're tele'ing around, tossing spears, orbs or whatever at you from off screen. You tele after them. Say for a split instant, you guess right where they're going to tele, and you're on the same screen as them. You do the smallest leap you can, hoping to put them in FHR and get a NL. However, in the time it takes you to leap up, they're already off the screen. When you land, they're either 1) off the screen and in FHR, and you can't get NL, or 2) they teleported far enough away they are not on screen or FHR.

It just doesn't seem like it's helpful, unless to further destroy players who don't have the gear or knowledge to take you.
 

Imbecile

Diabloii.Net Member
After dueling for another couple weeks, again I'm not so sure leap is a necessity for BvCs.

Assuming you play against people who have the gear, and thus the hit recovery, to compete with you, leaps use is marginalized.

When they have the cast rate that is so fast it's terribly difficult to get a NL on them and they're always off your screen, leap isn't going to help. So they're tele'ing around, tossing spears, orbs or whatever at you from off screen. You tele after them. Say for a split instant, you guess right where they're going to tele, and you're on the same screen as them. You do the smallest leap you can, hoping to put them in FHR and get a NL. However, in the time it takes you to leap up, they're already off the screen. When you land, they're either 1) off the screen and in FHR, and you can't get NL, or 2) they teleported far enough away they are not on screen or FHR.

It just doesn't seem like it's helpful, unless to further destroy players who don't have the gear or knowledge to take you.

Though High lvl leap is a perfect Desynch-detector vs Desynch-hammers. Since this tool can help you from getting surprised hammerfielded alot of times. Without Leap you are pretty much screwed vs a good desynch hammer.



 
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