Law Enforcment and Cameras

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

my last post was to ogre who also has the sme disiillusionment, but oh well.
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According to you, if I pull the lever to divert the train, I should be tried for killing the one person, but if I do nothing and the group dies, I should be tried for killing all of them? How is that remotely logical?

you're right, it is NOT remotely logical.

it IS UNEQUIVICALLY logical.

you ARE responsible for the dead. either you are responsible for the 1 dead or the 100 dead. i'd rather only be responsible for 1 dead than 100 dead. it's softer on my conscious.
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A SOLDIER wears a uniform, represents and is under command openly of a specific country and follows the rest of the rules of war.

a terrorist is one who is NOT a solder.

simple.
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for the third time now, as i said in 2 previous posts, i think this satisfactorially ends the human rights/torture issue/debate:

human rights apply to HUMANS, not to monsters who blow up weddings, busses, intent/desire of using biological/chemical/nuclear weapons, commits/intent/desire genocide, and decapitates journalists.

 

[PFSS]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

Correct. However, things like slapping, discomfort, truth serum, screwing with sleep schedules, Nine Inch Nails, and yes, waterboarding are not torture. They are to shock, scare, and disorient rather than to cause pain. They break down the will, not hurt and maim in order to extract information.

I'm pretty sure they also found water boarding produced ****ty intelligence too.

human rights apply to HUMANS, not to monsters who blow up weddings, busses, intent/desire of using biological/chemical/nuclear weapons, commits/intent/desire genocide, and decapitates journalists.

Personally I would put people eager to torture another human, and presumably any humans the tortured person names, in the same category as these people you list. Though unlike you I still class them as humans.

A SOLDIER wears a uniform, represents and is under command openly of a specific country and follows the rules of war.

a terrorist is one who is NOT a solder.

Say the oppressed people in Zimbabwe rise up and overthrow Mugabe, they would be terrorists?

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

i agree, a person who tortures a person is a monster as well. we agree.

a person who tortures a monster is a hero. monsters are to be slain/destroyed at least by the good people. the purpose of good is to destroy evil. the forces of good and evil are at war with each other. their job is to destroy the other side. just like humans in war. the good side's job is to destroy the evil side. the evil side's job is to destroy the good side. they are enemies.

 

[TheOgreMan]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

as i said, if u wanna keep disillusioning yourself, feel free to. if u wanna think the earth doesn't move, feel free to. if u wanna think u aren't allowing something, feel free to.

BUT, the earth DOES move, even if u think it doesn't.
BUT, not acting IS a decision and it IS a decision that, that act IS ALRIGHT, even if u think you're not.
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as i said in a previous post, i think this satisfactorially ends the human rights/torture issue/debate:

human rights apply to HUMANS, not to monsters who blow up weddings, busses, intent/desire of using biological/chemical/nuclear weapons, commits/intent/desire genocide, and decapitates journalists.

Your logic is as terrible as your grammar. Believing in proven facts is not the same as what we are talking about.

According to your logic if I were to see a group of armed men assault a woman and rape her, and I did not interfere, I would be as guilty of rape as the ones who actually did the crime (as an aside I would just call the police, but you better damn well believe I will not put my life in danger unless it was someone I knew).

I do not agree with the war Bush started and that continues to be fought, but since I am not vocal about it and do nothing to stop the armies from doing their duty, I am as guilty of the killing on innocents in the middle east as the ones doing the shooting?

No. Not interfering and agreeing are two very, very different things. You are the one that is deluding him/herself on this issue. I thank my false D&D gods that you are not in a position of authority that I have to encounter because your judgment is just plain terrible.

And please, please spell out your words. Your posts are difficult enough reading with your odd point of view and faulty logic. Seriously, "you" is only three letters.

Adding an edit to not make another post:

Your view on people and rights is also very disturbing. All people are born with rights that every human deserves. Not people, every human. Those rights should be for everyone, not people who, in your mind, have "earned" them. You have those rights until you give them up. Terrorism, murder, inhumanity, any extreme that permanently violates the rights of another human...those are actions that declare you have given up your own rights as a citizen of humanity. Even then these people should be treated as human.

You declare people as monsters too easily. There are relatively few real "monster" people in this world. There are bad people, yes, but few monsters.

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

yes, you'd be arrested and charged with being an accomplice to the rape and arrested and charged for being a worthless and cowardly loser and of not being a man if u did nothing.

the U.S. fights wars. war is not genocide. the U.S. does NOT kill innocent people. terrorists DO.

 

[PFSS]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

i agree, a person who tortures a person is a monster as well. we agree.

a person who tortures a monster is a hero. monsters are to be slain/destroyed at least by the good people. the purpose of good is to destroy evil. the forces of good and evil are at war with each other. their job is to destroy the other side. just like humans in war. the good side's job is to destroy the evil side. the evil side's job is to destroy the good side. they are enemies.

It's hard to tell if you're trolling or if you really do see the world in a very scary black and white way where you are so happy to view other people as being inhuman and devoid of rights.

But a quick question - Nelson Mandela? He should have been tortured before being executed yes? and Robert Mugabe should torture anyone in Zimbabwe who takes up arms against his regime? And Saddam Hussain was justified in torturing all the people who forcefully resisted his rule?

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

posting my views is not trolling. that's what most of us are doing here, posting our views. though there probably are some trolls amidst us who are following the rules of the site.

i AM a black and white person. this is true about me. there is NO "grey" in the world i know, nor are there lil green men from mars. i have yet to encounter both, "grey" and lil green men from mars.

from the science and world, it's binary.

male-female. matter-antimatter. energy-dark energy. "+" charge - "-"charge. good-evil. up-down. in-out. fat-skinny. smart-stupid. tall-short. hot-cold. micro-macro. big-small. wet-dry. hard-soft. love-hate. happy-sad. pleased-angry. selfish-selfless. peace-war. benevoloent-malevolent. kind-mean. clockwise-counterclockwise. left-right. back-froward. 0-1. life-death. animal-plant. strong-weak. outgoing-shy. liberal-conservative. leader-follower. boss-worker. rich-poor. innocent-guilty. truth-lie. right-wrong. etc...

as you can see, reality IS BINARY. reality is BLACK and WHITE.

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

you're right, it is NOT remotely logical.

it IS UNEQUIVICALLY logical.

you ARE responsible for the dead. either you are responsible for the 1 dead or the 100 dead. i'd rather only be responsible for 1 dead than 100 dead. it's softer on my conscious.

So just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, I am responsible for someone's death either way? I don't buy it.

I didn't put the train on the track, nor did I put the group in front of the train. If the train runs them over, it is in no way my fault.

If however, I pull the lever, I have directly put someone in harm's path, and in fact killed them. Then, I am responsible.

A SOLDIER wears a uniform, represents and is under command openly of a specific country and follows the rest of the rules of war.

a terrorist is one who is NOT a solder.

So if a foreign power invades your country, and you grab a rifle and run out to try and stop them, you lose all your human rights?

Ugh.

for the third time now, as i said in 2 previous posts, i think this satisfactorially ends the human rights/torture issue/debate:

It doesn't end anything, since your assumption is that humans who do bad things are no longer humans. I'd like to see where it is written that humans only do good things before I'd believe this interpretation. :wave:

Personally I would put people eager to torture another human, and presumably any humans the tortured person names, in the same category as these people you list. Though unlike you I still class them as humans.

Good point. And that raises an interesting question:

Since Hege believes torturing people is okay, and he is therefore responsible for all the torture going on right now because he isn't trying to stop it (according to his own rules), and torturing makes you a monster with no human rights, then Hege has proclaimed himself a monster who has no human rights.

How odd.

yes, you'd be arrested and charged with being an accomplice to the rape and arrested and charged for being a worthless and cowardly loser and of not being a man if u did nothing.

Interesting.

So if you go to your bank to get some money, and gunmen break in to rob the place and force everyone to the floor, when it's all over, the police should come arrest everyone in the bank for not trying to stop them?

Absurd. Truly absurd.

 

[Johnny]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

And while one can quite easily snivel and quibble about the circumstances of each capture, the point is that their trials should be through UCMJ tribunal, and nothing to do with U.S. civil courts. But Hege is correct; this will lead to a "no prisoners" approach which will also be decried by the hate-America left while they simultaneously bless the conduct of those who would disembowel them.

Well if they're attacking armed soldiers it's not really fair to judge them as illegal combatants and start torturing them.

 

[PFSS]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

posting my views is not trolling. that's what most of us are doing here, posting our views. though there probably are some trolls amidst us who are following the rules of the site.

i AM a black and white person. this is true about me. there is NO "grey" in the world i know, nor are there lil green men from mars. i have yet to encounter both, "grey" and lil green men from mars.

If these really are your views then I think most people on earth are very glad you're not calling the shots.

But again - Should Nelson Mandela have been tortured and executed? Should Robert Mugabe torture anyone in Zimbabwe who takes up arms against his regime? And was Saddam Hussain justified in torturing all the people who forcefully resisted his rule?

 

[TheOgreMan]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

yes, you'd be arrested and charged with being an accomplice to the rape and arrested and charged for being a worthless and cowardly loser and of not being a man if u did nothing.

the U.S. fights wars. war is not genocide. the U.S. does NOT kill innocent people. terrorists DO.

You are wrong on so many accounts.

I guarantee that the US has killed many innocents in this war. I doubt you will believe this, since you are so adamant in your position, but entire countries that a select few come from, are not all terrorists. You cannot seriously tell me that you believe there have been no innocent people killed on the US's behalf, or by us?

As far as being a man...you might be braver if you attempted to stop a group of armed men from assaulting a woman but you are damned stupid, too. And no, I would not be an "accomplice" for not intervening.

 

[PFSS]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

It doesn't end anything, since your assumption is that humans who do bad things are no longer humans. I'd like to see where it is written that humans only do good things before I'd believe this interpretation. :wave:

I'd also like to see the list where "Good" and "Bad" things are written down.

Apparently the French Resistance were inhuman monsters because of their efforts to resist the Nazis...

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

Since Hege believes torturing people is okay, and he is therefore responsible for all the torture going on right now because he isn't trying to stop it (according to his own rules), and torturing makes you a monster with no human rights, then Hege has proclaimed himself a monster who has no human rights. -saro

i don't even dispute myself being a monster, does anyone dispute me being a monster ?

So if you go to your bank to get some money, and gunmen break in to rob the place and force everyone to the floor, when it's all over, the police should come arrest everyone in the bank for not trying to stop them? -saro

YES.
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war is war. if innocent people get caught in the middle of it, that's unfortunate. but that's what collateral damage is.

stop mistaking collateral damage OF WAR with a terrorist who goes to a jordan wedding and blows up everyone. the former is WAR. the later is genocide/mass murder.

U.S. wages WAR. it does NOT kill innocent people.

terrorists KILL innocent people. terrorists commit genocide/mass murder.

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

So if you go to your bank to get some money, and gunmen break in to rob the place and force everyone to the floor, when it's all over, the police should come arrest everyone in the bank for not trying to stop them?

YES.

I don't think any more needs to be said.

About the only people that wouldn't be in prison in a society governed by your rules would be the people who actually commit the crimes in the first place.

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

there's nothing stupid about even attempting and failing to save a woman. a failed attempt to save a female from rape has completely more value than my unimportant life.
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About the only people that wouldn't be in prison in a society governed by your rules would be the people who actually commit the crimes in the first place. -saro

the people commiting the crimes definately would be in jail or dead too. (i have NOT forgot about them )

i agree, i doubt there's many good people in the world. so nearly the entire human population would be in jail or dead. how pitiful how far humanity has fallen.

quite frankly, we deserve it. humanity should be executed or imprisoned for it's weakness. it's fearful inability to do the right thing. to oppose evil actions and those who do the evil acts.

evil is always portrayed as super powerful in stories and the good character is weak and has to struggle to win, but in the real world, evil is incredibly weak. evil only is powerful when it goes unchallenged.

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

the people commiting the crimes definately would be in jail or dead too. (i have NOT forgot about them )

How? The system would be completely clogged up processing all of the shoftlifter "accomplices" who failed to prevent an armed robber from taking a candy bar from the local quik-e-mart, and that's assuming the judges who will be hearing their cases aren't all in court themselves trying to argue against the traffic ticket they received from failing to prevent a nearby fellow motorist for speeding.

i agree, i doubt there's many good people in the world.

There's plenty, but there wouldn't be after you put them all in jail and tortured them.

evil is always portrayed as super powerful in stories and the good character is weak and has to struggle to win, but in the real world, evil is incredibly weak. evil only is powerful when it goes unchallenged.

I'm pretty sure the bank robber with his illegal weaponry is more powerful than you.

Anyway, I think I'm done with this line of discussion. I see no reason to continuing arguing against such a ludicrous position.

 

[HegemonKhan]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

chuckles, i am feeling the same vibes with all of u (those with absurd and disillustionment or to use your word, ludcris, views) too

only and all the bad people would be imprisoned or executed. though i doubt that leave many humans left since there aren't many.

think of it like God's cleansings in the bible...the destruction of soddam and gilmora, "noah" flood, etc...

that's me. i'd be like God and smite humanity of all it's evil over and over, until humans learn to not be (choose to be) bad.

technically, i wouldn't imprison or torture, i'd just execute them on the spot. when it comes to justice and bad people, i'm so ruthless and mercilous, i'd make hitler blush.

i have a ZERO tolerance to evil.

it IS a good thing for all those who are evil, that i don't have power to carry out my view of justice
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I'm pretty sure the bank robber with his illegal weaponry is more powerful than you. -saro

i love this question, as it is a great question, that i love to answer:

the people with the least power also are greatest in number. because of this the people with the least power actually have the most power.

for example:

let's use a REAL example: north korea

the peasants/"people" have the least power.
the government/military has the most power.

if the peasants/"people" of north korea try to challenge jim kim ill and his government, the military will shoot them dead.

however, what if the peasants/"people" continued to rebel, and the military kills ALL or a great enough number of them ???

here's what happens:

not enough peasants/"people", than not enough farmers growing food for the government/military and jim kim ill starves to death

or there's not enough slave workers for other jobs that the military/government depends on the peasants/"people" to do for them.

if every single peasant is killed, than it's hard to be a government. it's hard rule over people, when u don't have any people to rule over. it's hard for jim kim ill to be a leader when has has no people to be the leader of.

ultimately, the "people" have the true power.

here's another REAL example,

it's 2004, and bush is president and iraq war is in full steam.

what if every american suddenly stopped working. yes, they go broke and starve, but what would happen to the iraq war ?? it would end immediately because the country would literally come to a complete stop and bush would be on the ground groveling for the american people to go back to work.

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

that's me. i'd be like God and smite humanity of all it's evil over and over, until humans learn to not be (choose to be) bad.

According to you, the person at the train tracks trying to decide whether or not to pull the lever is a murderer either way, so yes, when you define everyone as a criminal with no way to not be a criminal, all you'll have is . . . well, criminals. =P

Notice that this isn't an indictment of the human race; just your ridiculous philosophy.

technically, i wouldn't imprison or torture, i'd just execute them on the spot. when it comes to justice and bad people, i'm so ruthless and mercilous, i'd make hitler blush.

I hesitate to to use the word "evil" when describing people, but in terms of actions, what you have just described is the root of some of the most major evils that have ever taken place.

"Christians are evil! they must be purged!"
"Heathens are evil! they must be purged!"
"Capitalists are evil! They must be purged!"
"Communists are evil! They must be purged!"
"Jews are evil! They must be purged!"
"Israelis are evil! They must be purged!"
"Americans are evil! They must be purged!"

Until humanity realizes that the ruthless "cleanse the evil-doer" way of thinking is wrong, the bloodbath will continue. But by all means, continue to be part of the problem.

 

[AeroJonesy]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

It's easy to make judgments when you think the world is black and white in regards to good and evil. But what about with shades of grey? Will you kill anyone that has any hint of "evil" in them?

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Re: Law Enforcment and Cameras

It's easy to make judgments when you think the world is black and white in regards to good and evil. But what about with shades of grey? Will you kill anyone that has any hint of "evil" in them?

I guess people who think it's cool to text during movies at the theater are evil. We could probably get away with purging them. :thumbup: