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Ladder starter summoner necro help

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Bulgarian, Sep 18, 2006.

  1. Bulgarian

    Bulgarian Banned

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    Ladder starter summoner necro help

    Im really tired of building a sorc, and its a reallly big turn off that she cant kill 1/2 the things in the game.

    Before this i thought; whats so fun about just standing there and letting somebody else kill? Now im starting to think; whats not have fun with? you just stand there and 1337 gear drops.

    I skimmed through the skelliemancer guide, and i have a few questions. I dont normally hang around in the necromancer forum so if i repeat a question you guys answer 3 times a day im sorry :(.

    Should i max revive (Why/Not)?

    Should i max corpse explosion (why/not)?

    Which curses should i put points in/invest in?

    :confused1:The use of a 4xEth 2xShael Phase Blade and Crushing Blow equipment is advocated and adds a unique element:confused1:

    Having no background knoledge of summoners this is what im thinking of doing with my necro:

    20 RS
    20 SM
    1 RSMage
    1 clay/iron/blood golem
    1 Revive
    1 summon resist
    1 golem mastery

    1 all curses?!

    1 corpse explosion


    Some help would be much appreciated, thank you.
     
  2. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    Heeh..... you haven't met my sorc...

    1 hard point is enough. Each + skill adds another revive that you can summon. Summoners can easily pile on +10 to all skills, and often more than that. That is enough to summon up a big party of revives. Revives also 'die' after 3 minutes, so don't waste more points on them. They also have terrible AI, often disappearing on you or wandering off in the wrong direction. The only way to 'control them properly' is to use teleport to stack your entire army on a target. Lastly, there are tons of bodies around. When some revives die or poof, just revive a few more. One good thing about them is that they are virtually invulnerable for the 3 minutes when they are working for you.

    Depends on how many +skills you're going to muster on your necro. I spent 1 hard skill point at first, and now that I have maxed my four main skills, I'm investing my spare points into CE. You need to find a CE radius that is good for you. Every 3 points spent increases the radius by 1 yard. That's not a huge increase. Personally, I'm quite happy with a CE radius of 11 yards, and that is about 12 hard skill points spent, with the rest coming from +skills. If I had maxed CE (and with +skills), I'd get a CE radius of 13.6 yards. As you can see, not a great increase. If you have spare points and nowhere to spend them, then go with pumping CE. If you would like to max something else (like a 20 point Bone Wall to synergise a 1 point Bone Armour), then do that instead, so long as you can achieve a CE radius that you are comfortable with end-game.

    Again, down to personal preference. Definitely go with Amp Damage, Decrepify and Dim Vision. The first two are obvious. DV is arguably the best crowd control skill a necro has. With enough +skills, your DV curse will cover the whole screen in one cast. One DV of such a big radius is more than enough to shut down Gloams. I personally did not go with Lower Resist as my summoner is based on physical damage. As I have maxed Raised Skeletal Magi, and since I encounter so few unbreakable physical immunes, I did not feel it was necessary to spend 3 points to get LR, especially since I'm tight on skill points for my build. Although LR does help your Magi kill unbreakable PIs faster, given that they are so rare, a bit of patience when facing them and your Magi will still kill them. As for Attract and Confuse, I did not bother with them either, since 98% of the time I'm using Amp Damage, followed by CE. If I played with Attract or Confuse, my melee skellies will not benefit from Amp Damage, and I do not need the crowd control that Attract and Confuse offers. If I really need crowd control (read: Gloams/Souls) one cast of DV is more than sufficient in blinding them and shutting them down. After which my melee skellies swarm all over them, and I switch back to Amp Damage and then CE. Oh, and 1 hard point in each curse is enough. Don't let *anyone* tell you otherwise. Additional skill points only increase the radius or encounter diminishing returns, both of which can be left to +skills to deal with.

    I believe that is the commandomancer variant of the summoner. 4 Eths gives you -100% enemy defense (-50% for bosses) and the 2 Shaels help you attack faster. With lots of CB, and -100% enemy defense, the idea is to quickly reduce a monster's health down to a sliver.

    Yes, that looks good to me. That would be the very core of a summoner. After you work out what gear you will sport and how many +skills you can fit in, you can then decide which other skills to max. 1 point Bone Armour with 20 points Bone Wall? Max Magi? Or both? Or pump CE a bit to increase the radius? As you can see, lots of choices. DO NOT put more than 1 point into ClayGolem, GolemMastery, SummonResist, any of the curses, IGolem or BGolem (provided you are not planning on a Golem-mancer), and no points into Fire Golem. And do not bother with Bone Spear or Bone Spirit as you won't have enough spare skill points to synergise them properly.

    Right, that should cover everything. Apologies for the massive blocks of texts. I'm too tired to structure my reply into neat paragraphs.
     
  3. zeiris

    zeiris IncGamers Member

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    Since you're ladder and seem to be looking into something more interesting than a pure summoner, google around for the "corrupted televangelist". Don't remember where the guide was, but 'twas good... Basic idea was to use thorns (Edge) meditation (Insight) and high level corpse explosion/revives to tear things up on an epic scale. The cow level never stood a chance versus that build, and the time/IQ limit on revives was meaningless with infinite mana. Fun stuff. You can also look into eventually using full trangs for the +fire mastery bonus, which happends to apply to the 1/2 fire and 1/2 physical CE...

    Just some interesting things to spice a summoner up. Dunno if that's what you were looking for with the phase blade.
     
  4. Bulgarian

    Bulgarian Banned

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    That helped a lot, thank you.

    Since this necro is going to start ladder he will be completely untwinked, and i would use him to run pits. I will probably pump up strength and load him up with ptopazed gear. Which brings me to the question; how much strength? I was thinking about 156 so that i can wear a 4ist monarch. What do you think?

    I want this necro to be more of a melee type, so unless mages are highly recomended ill only be putting one into them. I probably wont be putting points into the bone/poison tree either, i do not feel it will get synergized enouph to actually have it absorb/do any damage. All thats left is CE.

    Also one last thing, what about IM and Lifetap?
     
  5. Klæmint Vágadal

    Klæmint Vágadal IncGamers Member

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    Have you read Nightfish's Summoner guide? Pretty much everything is coverd in there:thumbsup:

    As for sheild, I would go with a Humoncolus. I think Ist'ing youre gear is overkill, since you need alot of good finds to make up for all the Ists spent in the Mf build. But if youre rich and dont know what to do with all youre wealth, then why not.
     
  6. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    You're welcome.

    pTopazed gear sounds good for untwinked. Necros are excellent level 85 area runners.

    How much strength? 70 str for a 4 os gothic plate. Masks, Crowns and Great Helms all come with 3 os and are below 70 str. 95 str if you plan to equip War Traveler, which then gives you 105 str.

    Save your Ists. If you have that wealth, go trade/make an Enigma instead. MF has diminishing returns... really, 200-250 is enough for MF'ing. Anything more than that is just a bonus. You already reach 168% MF with 7 pTopazes. Add in Trav's, Goldwrap, Chancies, Nagels, etc... you get the picture.

    As mentioned, get a Homunculus instead. For PvM, no need max block. You have enough skeletons to shield you. If you are getting physically hit too often, you are too close to the front-line.

    Agreed, and especially if you're untwinked, you won't have the +skills to carry your CE far, in which case, pump CE, and leave the Magi at 1 hard point. Magi are best when you have a source of teleport. However, if you are only going with 1 hard point (and some +skills) Magi, consider LR (and the 2 pre-reqs that must be gained), for you will not have enough Magi to efficiently kill unbreakable PIs. LR will help weak Magi kill unbreakable PIs faster.

    There is one other skill to consider though. 1 pt BArmour and 20 pts BWall. Maxed CE, BWall, SM and RS for a total of 80 points, plus the pre-reqs, is achievable for a high-80s necro. Plus, the max BWall is handy. If I want to leave the PC for a minute or two, I'll cover the whole screen in BWalls, and then putter off to fetch some cookies and milk before coming back (don't be afk too long though...).

    Once your summoner is established, you will rarely use them. IM does almost nothing PvM compared to Amp and CE. Lifetap may come in handy for keeping your merc (Might aura, of course) alive, but once you get your merc good gear, he will rarely get killed, especially with so many skellies to share the blows. Of course, if you get LR, you'll have to get them, but as pre-reqs.
     
  7. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    With all due respect to Frostiius, may I direct you to the Fishymancer. The guide goes through the options of skill usage, comparisons between skills and gear setup. I suggest this as an addition to the info Frosty has provided, not a replacement.

    From my experience SP solo, I have to agree; you don't need a Monarch, you need a Homunc with PDiamond. Bear in mind this guy should be several miles away from a battle; at least with my playstyle. The only time he hits something is if he runs past a monster an accidently clips it with his Ali Baba. PTopazes are absolutely fine for MF because this guy can use so much. I just follow the meatshields picking stuff up. It's the only time I enjoy act 3. :wink3:

    I cannot stress the import of Summon Resist. Diablo will DESTROY your skellies quickly without it. Don't be surprised if you have to get reinforcements a few times; that's also why revives are handy.

    I stuck an extra couple of points into Amp damage to get a bigger radius. Amp is my most used curse, with Attract thrown in to distract the enemy. Decrep is what I used really only on bosses and Listers mob. Dim Vision on gloams. I rarely use the other curses really, although it's nice to have a point in each. Particularly if you are MPing and fancy throwing a life tap in the direction of someone about to die. :grin:

    Personally, I wouldn't bother with mages and I know this is a love them or hate them thing. I think they die too much but that is my opinion. I do wish I had a couple more points in the Golem/Golem Mastery than the three or so I put in Mages. Gumby good.

    Very relaxing to play, but mine struggles with P8 Hell. Frosty's doesn't IIRC. I seem to remember his rescuing one of my sorcies from the Throne Room.

    Happy snarfling (picking up of items if you didn't know!).
     
  8. Bulgarian

    Bulgarian Banned

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    How so? because i was thinking of using bp enig
     
  9. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    Any source of teleport (Najs/amulet whatever) helps keep your little army together. They automatically come to you when you teleport. Makes it less likely that you will lose them as you walk around. Particularly annoying with revives.
     
  10. Bulgarian

    Bulgarian Banned

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    Yes but he specifically said mages, i understand about revives having bad AI
     
  11. thefranklin

    thefranklin IncGamers Member

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    Mages attack at stuff in sight, they are not good at finding their own things. So when you tele nixt to something, every mage then stands there and attacks, which is good. Otherwise they kind of just wander around the back of you doing little to nothing.

    If you have enigma, max mages.
    No enigma, no need to max.
     
  12. garion

    garion IncGamers Member

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    i guess given the choice (with your setup...) id rather max mages then revives...
     
  13. Enilias

    Enilias IncGamers Member

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    I don't have enigma, my necro uses full trang. A simple trick to focus all your minions at the end of the wsk for example is to just use a town portal.
     
  14. harpoeth

    harpoeth IncGamers Member

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    The mages have ranged attack and stand still while attacking. If there are narrow pathways sometimes the mages can stand and block for the skeletons from reaching melee range, and thereby they are put out of play...

    As said, this can of course be avoided if just tele'ing close to you target monster.
     
  15. Bulgarian

    Bulgarian Banned

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    i still dont think im going to put points into mage, too weak
     
  16. garion

    garion IncGamers Member

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    then you can max CE or something
     
  17. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    Magi are there as back-up and something pretty for your army rather than the all-business melee skellies. They aren't meant kill on their own.

    They only come into their own when you meet unbreakable PIs, which is rarely. Other than that, they are just there for decoration, some little bit of extra elemental damage (cold for slow and poison for PMH to be noted) and meatshields for your rear.

    I chose to max skellies as I have a source of teleport, which offers me better control over them, and my revives. I find them strong enough when maxed to kill unbreakable PIs, even without the assistance of LR, which saves me 3 skill points.

    If there were other skills I needed maxing, then I would have put those points there instead. But there weren't after I had maxed my three main skills, so I maxed magi, with all remaining points into CE to increase the radius. With +skills, my CE radius is very decent.
     
  18. Tankmobile

    Tankmobile IncGamers Member

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    My summon nec is only lvl83 (get bored of lvling after 80) but ive maxed magi and they end up about lvl45 with +skills. Only place he's every died is against the ubers (its hopeless, and i have a smiter....) Got eni, and to me, they are great hitters (the mages). I tele next to a monster the ppl in my 8 player games are havin trouble with, everything opens fire on it, and it dies. Simple as. Its quite fun if u plan PvP. Ok, summoners aren't exactly greatest PvP'ers but i like to tele onto sorcs and they are destroyed by mages alone. Its fun, nothing more. Mages add different elements, but i only chose them as i have too many +skills to make CE worth pumping or any of the curses.
     
  19. bogie

    bogie IncGamers Member

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    I would definately reconsider maxing mages, ill give you a simple list of why any sane person would max this skill.

    1) Mages act as nice meatsheilds, while your skeles go to the front line, your mages will hang back, allowing them to serve as a barrier between you and sneak attacks from monsters in your rear.
    2)With so many 1 point wonders on the necromancer, you have the skills. Lets say you lvl to lvl 90, and get all +skill quests. This will give you 100 points to spend. If you pump corpse explosion, you will have 60 points spent between that, skeles, and skele mastery. Another 5 for curses (1 point into amp, weaken, terror, decript, and dv (i dont even bother with dv)) Thats 65 points. Then you put 1 into 3 of the golems, 1 into golem mast., 1 into revive, and 1 into summon resist. Thats 71 points.... +1 into bone armor and 1 into teeth for the prequisite, thats 73 points spent. That means that you have around 27 points left when you reach lvl 90. What are you going to do with them? Mage is the only maxable skill left.
    3) Mages help deal with physical immunes, they ARENT supposed to do SO muuch dmg, they are only suppose to act as backup, to stop monster heal, slow enemies and bosses etc.
    4) Using Infinity on your merc for the conviction aura will greatly help you mages, raising their dmg up to 85%.

    So, put extra points, good skill, alright dmg, extra meatshields together and you have a skill that NEEDS to be maxed. Simply put, theres just no better use of your hard earned skill points but to max mages. After all, the only other way to get elemental dmg on a summoning necro would be to use a high lvl fire golem........................i wont go there

    To the guy who said ubers are impossible... KEEP TRYING, its very possible, i have always loved necros, and i now use mine to collect torches (didint have the heart to switch to smiter). All you have to remember to do is to corner meph alone on bottom left (draw him out in secret) and kill him, diablo and baal with urdars and a cb merc. Watch foosofts video of him beating ubers. Does a perfect job of drawing them out. Followed his video during my next run and everything went smoothly.:rolleyes:
     
  20. harpoeth

    harpoeth IncGamers Member

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    Do you have a link ?
     

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