L: PvP Speeder/Whirlwind Barbarian

TheCerberus

Diabloii.Net Member
L: PvP Speeder/Whirlwind Barbarian

Classic PvP Barbarian Guide: Ladder said:
Let's introduce the Classic Speeder Barbarian! Designed to kill Elemental characters with ease, take on BvBers, and catch those pesky Necromancers...

First of all, to handle elemental characters, you need max resists. A standard setup with 125 resists will get you max resists in that element in hell. To get 85 resists in hell with Iratha's, you need 135 resists. Under Conviction, you need 285 lightning resists; Cold Mastery, you'll need 290 if they use a full +skill setup. Against Poison Necromancers, their Lower Resist can effect your poison resists for another -66 penalties in a full +skill setup. The good players won't use these setups, but you'll come across bad duelers and need to take care of them.

How can a barbarian that kills casters compete in BvB? You'll need lots of defense and AR, right? Not really. Most ladder barbarians will use Angelics, and effectively get ~11k AR so they can get as many hits as possible. Therefore, your defense is negligible. Also, wouldn't a BvBer need max block to avoid getting hit, and a caster killer would lose life if they got block right? Not in Classic, max block is easily achived by Twtich and Swordback Hold. Also, many BvBers on ladder seem to think Battle Hammers are the way to go, or Executioner Swords. By using Nagas, you'll have less damage than either of those builds, but you'll have two advantages: a higher range with Naga's range 3 over Battle Hammer's range 1, getting more hits and getting hardly hit; more life with Nagas because of lower requirements (125 strength) than the Executioner Sword (170 strength/110 dexterity).

This build is great for avoiding the lethal curse of Decrepify of Necromancers, because you'll be extremely quick to avoid the radius of the curse and zoom in on the kill. Since Shout only needs 1 point, you can dump all the rest into IS and NR. I'd max IS first, since speed from skills is better than speed from items. Resists are the same whether from items of skills, and plus they are wasily gotten from items. Since you're fast you can target in on the bonemancer before he casts Decrepify, and if it does manage to effect you, you'll have extra speed to lose.

Items
Weapon: 2xRare Naga (Imbue at lvl 74), 2x+2 Barbarian Magic Hatchet*
Armor = Blinkbat's Form*, Hawkmail, Twitchthroe, Berserker's Hauberk*
Helm = Iratha's Coil, 3-Ruby Crown, Tarnhelm*
Gloves = Iratha's Cuff, Bloodfists
Belt = Iratha's Cord, Bladebuckle
Amulet = Iratha's Collar, Angelic Wings
Rings = 2xCoral Ring, 2xCobalt Ring, 2x Jade Ring, 2xGarnet Ring, 2x Angelic Raiment, 2xStone of Jordans*
Shield = 3-Topaz Kite Shield, 3-Saphire Kite Shield, Swordback Hold
Boots: Goblin Toes, Hot Spurs*
Extras: Horadric Cube, Tome of Town Portal*, Tome of Identify*
*these items are not really needed, but help a lot

Kite Shields are the best shields to put gems in because they are light weight, so you keep your speed up. And once again, Nagas are the best because of their requirements and range. Many of the * items are items that will help you Warcries, like Berserker's Hauberk (+1 armor) and the SoJs. However, they aren't really needed, your character just functions better with them.

Of course, these items can all be improved on by rares. Rares can lower the overall amount of statistics you have to spend in strength or dexterity. They may give you lots of life and mana; some come with tri-resists, regen, FRW, and FHR. Often times, if you find good rings and amulets, you won't need to use items from the above list like the Angelic set, or the 3-Gem Kite Shields. However, know that while you may be gaining life, +skills, resistances, the need for swapping items, -requirements, and most importantly style, when using rares over items like the Iratha's set, you do lose the max resists and FRW the set gives you. Some may like this tradeoff, I myself do. I'd much rather prefer a setup consisting of 95% rares, but this is a ladder build and it can compete just as well. Think of the satisfaction you'll get killing people "welfare" style.

Now, due to CS runs, its not very hard to get to 85. After that, the leveling becomes a little tedious. Therefore, the skills section will be catered to a lvl 85 character with all quests done. Your character should then have 84 skill points from leveling, and 12 skills from quests; combine that with 420 stats from leveling and 15 stats from quests. You'll also have 168 life from leveling with 60 more life from quests.

Skills and Statistics
1 Point Each: Bash, Leap, Stun, Leap Attack, Concentrate, Increased Stamina, Iron Skin, Howl, Shout, Battle Command
20 Points Each: Whirlwind, Axe Mastery, Increased Speed, Battle Orders
Rest upon leveling: Natural Resists
Strength: 125.
Dexterity: None.
Energy: None.
Vitality: Everything after strength and dexterity are met.

A lot of your equipment gives bonuses to Strength, like Twitchthroe, Bladebuckle, and Swordback Hold. However, if you switched to Blinkbat's or a 3-Gem Shield, you wouldn't be able to wield your Naga. I say go to 125, or add 95 stats into strength. It does end up being a lot of life, 280 before BO, but you're a barbarian, you'll survive. As the ladder season progresses, rares will be found and the standards will raise, but for a durable, cheap character that is fun to play, this is the way to go.
Critiques and comments?
 

BigBearCat

Diabloii.Net Member
What's ur strategy ONCE u r cursed by Decrepify? Open tp, flee back to town and wait until the blue cloud over head dispelled?
And im surprised that both boots (Goblin Toes, Hot Spurs)in ur item list don't have FRW. How can u become a speeder without a 30frw boots? Can u catch a nec with 60% frw?
But whatever, speeder is really a excellent killer again those players suffering lag even the lag is not that severe. They even don't see u before they r killed by ur ww.
 

Locke07

Diabloii.Net Member
BigBearCat said:
What's ur strategy ONCE u r cursed by Decrepify? Open tp, flee back to town and wait until the blue cloud over head dispelled?
And im surprised that both boots (Goblin Toes, Hot Spurs)in ur item list don't have FRW. How can u become a speeder without a 30frw boots? Can u catch a nec with 60% frw?
But whatever, speeder is really a excellent killer again those players suffering lag even the lag is not that severe. They even don't see u before they r killed by ur ww.
Decripify is a joke for most speeders all you do is slow down there ww which helps them get more hits on you.
 

TheCerberus

Diabloii.Net Member
30 FRW are an improvement, this is basic starting equipment.

Plus, you have max Increased Speed and Iratha's/Blinkbat's adds a lot of FRW as well. If you can get +skills, that increases your speed even more. You'll be slowed down, but slowed for a speeder is much faster than regular characters. Necromancers will have to run to escape you, so they won't have any block, = easy hits. They are one of your harder classes though (walls/prisons).
 

TheCerberus

Diabloii.Net Member
JoeDamned said:
Man I found really nice boots on NM MEPH for my speeder, people who use threads on speeders disgust me greatly.
People who reply to threads they don't want to read in order to make themselves feel important disgust me. What's your point?
 

JoeDamned

Banned
I read your little blurb, I don't agree with a lot of points you made about the pvp's gear, mainly because hotspurs just really don't work very well for a barbarian in my opinion.

I guess I can kind of see your point with the nagas, yet I still think that 2 nagas seems like a bad combo.
 

TheCerberus

Diabloii.Net Member
JoeDamned said:
I read your little blurb, I don't agree with a lot of points you made about the pvp's gear, mainly because hotspurs just really don't work very well for a barbarian in my opinion.

I guess I can kind of see your point with the nagas, yet I still think that 2 nagas seems like a bad combo.
Good job, you say you don't agree with a lot of points, and then only mention one. Hot Spurs are wonderful against a fire sorceress, but are not needed. Now scroll up, and read it again. See how it says "Hot Spurs*"? And how * means the item is not essential, but can help greatly? If you have a better pair of boots against a fire sorceress, by all means tell me. And consider that this is a guide for the beginner to a new ladder; 30 FRW, 35% FR, etc. boots is not helpful advice for an untwinked character.

EDIT: And really, I'd only use 2 nagas if using the second one outwayed using a resists shield or Swordback. There are no other options really. You could go two-handed, but you'd gain 1 more range to fight against who exactly? Resists shields are great against the elements, but against a necromancer they won't help. Swordback will ignore bone armor, but if you kill them in one WW Open Wounds won't matter at all.
 

Dacar92

Moderator: Community, D2 Zon, DH, Inc Clan Officer
Enough spamming, please. I will close the thread if it continues.

Let's keep the discusion to the topic on hand.
 

Wyvern

Diabloii.Net Member
speeder huh?

Idealy if your going to make a speeder vs elemental chars you will want to use a lance instead of nagas that way you have range 5 instead of range 3.

maxing speed? lvl 1-10 you get an extra 36% speed, 10-20 is only a boost of 7%.

like wise with natural resistance, lvl 1-10 you get 54%, 10-20 is only another 13%.

so where else could you put these 20 points now? well, you could max out shout for higher def if you decide to go after a bvb. heck it even helps for pvm. find item is another place but not really a pvp skill. you could experiment useing a speeder with warcry. I just think that those 20 points could be better used than a 7% speed boost, and 13% more resists. the diminishing returns just makes it implausable.

as far as your stats go you should be 100% vit. +0 str, +0 dex. with the right gear you can equipt a -40 lance and be 100% vit. more life = better speed barb.

gear should be similar to the following.

weapon: 300+ -40 lance +2 barb

armor: 24fhr 60life dual resists or dual sat str/dex, or single stat + single resist.

rings: priz, str, dex, AR, +life

amulet: +2 barb, priz, +str, +dex, +life

boots: 30%frw, +str, +dex, tri resist, or dual resist, and fhr

gloves: +str, +dex, tri resist, +life, or dual resist, and fhr (i think you can get fhr on gloves?)

belt: death sash

helm: fhr, +life, tri resist, +stat(str or dex)

an alternitive is you could go with itharas gloves, helm, amulet, for an additional 20% speed and decent resists. also another option is full itharas, and hawkmail for higher % resists and speed. but 9 times out of 10 the barb with the top tier rare items is better than the barb using the set/unique items.
 

TheCerberus

Diabloii.Net Member
I'd say 10 times out of 10 the barbarian with rares is better than the ones with sets/uniques. But someone starting out on ladder, untwinked, won't have those rares. What else is he supposed to build on?

Lances are for pure caster killers, but this is BvA. You going to use a lance in BvB?

Shout is worthless in PvP. You'd get maybe 4, 5k defense. A barbarian with 11k AR from Angelics will chew through that and spit it out, so it's my personal preference that Shout won't really matter. And yes, I'm very aware of those diminishing returns. But those are still returns, reducing 13% of those elemental attacks or allowing me to catch that Decrepping Necromancer 7% faster. It's a push, but after Whirlwind, Mastery, Battle Orders, you need somewhere to put your points. And Increased Speed and Natural Resists do a better job than Shout.

Since people have been making so many comments on equipment, here's what perfect items would be for me, based on 1.10 items.

- Amulet (1): +2 Barbarian, +20% all resists, +40% cold resists, +20 strength, +60 life, +10 life regeneration
- Rings (2): +150 AR, +90 mana, +30% fire resists, +40 life, +14 minimum damage, +10 life regeneration
- Nagas (2): 200% damage, +300 AR, -30 requirements, +14-20 damage
- Bone Shield with Perfect Diamond (1): +39% resists, +30% lightning resists, +30% cold resists, 17% FHR, +60 life, +5 life regeneration
- Mage Plate with Perfect Ruby (1): +30% fire resists, +40% lightning resists, +30% cold resists, 24% FHR, +98 life, +5 life regeneration
- Grand Crown with Perfect Ruby (1): +30% fire resists, +30% poison resists, +30% cold resists, +98 life, +60 mana, -30 requirements
- Demonhide Sash (1): +30% poison resists, +40% lightning resists, +30% cold resists, 24% FHR, +20 strength, +60 life
- Demonhide Boots (1): +40% poison resists, +40% lightning resists, +40% cold resists, 30 FR/W, +30 life, +5 life regeneration
- Demonhide Gloves (1): +30% poison resists, +40% lightning resists, +40% cold resists, +15 strength, +40 life, +5 life regeneration

*Hot Spurs (1), Hawkmail (1), Twitchthroe (1), Swordback Hold (1), Goblin Toe (1), Berserker's Hauberk (1), Tarnhelm (1), Stone Of Jordan (2) in stash
 

JoeDamned

Banned
I have said it once and I shall say it again, you guys are godly rich.

I am using a 283 lance, Full Irathas, Hawkmail, 30 frw 37 lr 34 fr boots, dual res rings

I change boots to goblin toe and change hawk to rattlecage when a barb approaches me, it works fairly well I must say.

However I am being tempted to believe that a martel would be MUCH better than a lance.

It takes me 3 ww's to kill a holy shield FOH din, however he did have 2 sojs and godly gear so I can't feel too noobish.
 

fredsta54

Diabloii.Net Member
TheCerberus said:
Lances are for pure caster killers, but this is BvA. You going to use a lance in BvB?
Lance in Bvb? sure. My friend had one that beat quite a few s-back-twitch///naga///bh barbs

He used
346 lance w/ cold damage and 3xx ar (pamethsyed)
Sigons Gloves and helm (big ar n +strngth)
rcage and gob toe (decent defense, 50% crushing blow)
angelic rings n ammy (huge ar, life, dex, dtm)
and deaths sash

Basically he just directly wwed them twice or so (any more than 2 or 3 direct ww's and he would have died due to no shield) then just ranged them for their remaining life

it was sweet to see a old skool lancer beat all these noob bvbs with bh's
 

Wyvern

Diabloii.Net Member
fredsta54 said:
it was sweet to see a old skool lancer beat all these noob bvbs with bh's
I agree a properly equipt barb that knows what he is doing will win out using the 5 range lance vs the 3 range exec sword, 3 range naga, and 1 range battle hammer.

*edit*
some of those mods you listed on your items dont exist in classic TheCerberus.

i think helms are capped at 40 mana, and 9min is the best your going to get on ammys/rings. thats all that really stood out, i sorta skimmed through it.
 

TheCerberus

Diabloii.Net Member
They probably don't, I was looking at the LoD modifiers on www.diabloii.net, and I knew I had a +9 minimum damage ring, but it was in a 9-14 category so I just picked the highest out of the group. My mistake.

And on paper, I figured a lancer could beat a BvB. The extra 2 range works so well axe v. battle hammer that I figured it would work well with lance v. others, but I never came up against a good one I guess. My build had no defense and a lot of speed, however, so I just rushed them taking chances that my shield would block a couple hits, and they never got to outrange me. I still doubt I'd use a lance though; I like axes for some reason (even though a Naga looks like a kitchen knife) and a shield is just very nice.

Question. If he went with dead-on Whirlwinds, wouldn't he risk the other person running away after he was hit with Open Wounds? It'd be pretty cheap, but it'd kill him.
 

Wyvern

Diabloii.Net Member
TheCerberus said:
Question. If he went with dead-on Whirlwinds, wouldn't he risk the other person running away after he was hit with Open Wounds? It'd be pretty cheap, but it'd kill him.
Possible, but a Lance barb can also get open wounds by useing bone flesh so you could make the barb thats running bleed to death as well.
 

fredsta54

Diabloii.Net Member
w/ 50 cb and 2k+ ww range 5, cold damage, against a slow barb, they wont be able to hit u w/ ow then run away. Some would die on 1st ww lol
 
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